Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[Dagagad]

What money? Keeping Teo and not signing Kiermaier is the more expensive option

 

I guess youd have 5/6 m less. Sorry, i thought it was closer.

[Carlos Danger]

I sometimes wonder if we had played Moreno a bit more last year if he would have improved his value.

 

Or you could have a Kelenic, Adel, White, Kieboom, Royce, and I can go on and on of guys who’s value were sky high just before or as they were first playing in MLB. Now those #1 and highly rated prospects are not worth a s***..

[Jimcanuck]

Or you could have a Kelenic, Adel, White, Kieboom, Royce, and I can go on and on of guys who’s value were sky high just before or as they were first playing in MLB. Now those #1 and highly rated prospects are not worth a s***..

 

Nice c-pee baiting

[Dagagad]

If you revert the Varsho trade and do the Jansen for Helsley

 

Catcher: Kirk + Jansen ===> Kirk + Moreno

Production change: Likely neutral in 2023 and 2024. 2025 depends on a lot of factors (Jansen extension, every catcher performance and health, etc...)

 

BP: +1 very good BP for 2-3 years.

Production change: +1 WAR for 2-3 years in the BP

 

OF: Varsho (LF) ===> Gurriel (LF)

Production change: -2 to -3 WAR for 2023. Two OF positions to fill in 2024 and beyond with little OF depth in the farm. Top potential free agent OFs are Happ, Teo, and Bader. All of them are much older and project to produce a bit worse than Varsho.

 

 

I think the team is clearly better off with the Varsho trade in the short and medium term. Debatable in the long-term.

 

I think the only part id disagree with is that its a given that jansen/kirk is better than moreno/kirk even as soon as next year. I think there’s a good chance that moreno produces more value next year.

[connorp]

Or you could have a Kelenic, Adel, White, Kieboom, Royce, and I can go on and on of guys who’s value were sky high just before or as they were first playing in MLB. Now those #1 and highly rated prospects are not worth a s***..

 

One does not belong with the others

[connorp]

Nice c-pee baiting

 

Didn’t see this. Yes, it was

[Carlos Danger]

The other thing this trade does, is keep Varsho away from the Yankees and Astros. I guarantee you there would have been some crying and pissed off people on this board if the Yankees especially got Varsho. Both the Yankees, Astros and others were after Varsho. There is also something the Yankees and Astros have in common…

[Stangstag]

The other thing this trade does, is keep Varsho away from the Yankees and Astros. I guarantee you there would have been some crying and pissed off people on this board if the Yankees especially got Varsho. Both the Yankees, Astros and others were after Varsho. There is also something the Yankees and Astros have in common…

 

Cheating??

[Grant77]

Interesting question. Would you have signed Kiermaier if the Varsho trade was already been done or would you have pivoted to a guy like Brantley instead?

[Spanky99]

Interesting question. Would you have signed Kiermaier if the Varsho trade was already been done or would you have pivoted to a guy like Brantley instead?

 

Latter. We can go back as far as Teo, also.

[Jays24]

Interesting question. Would you have signed Kiermaier if the Varsho trade was already been done or would you have pivoted to a guy like Brantley instead?

 

Seems like we were really trying to get Conforto so once that failed, we pivoted to the trade. I don't think we would have went after KK otherwise.

 

I personally wish we kept Teo and rolled the dice that we could get a comp pick if he had a good enough year. Although I won't have any issues watching super elite defense in the OF after what we've been forced to watch recently lol. Let's hope we can get one more big OF bat in case KK is horrible at the plate or gets hurt.

[Stangstag]

Seems like we were really trying to get Conforto so once that failed, we pivoted to the trade. I don't think we would have went after KK otherwise.

 

I personally wish we kept Teo and rolled the dice that we could get a comp pick if he had a good enough year. Although I won't have any issues watching super elite defense in the OF after what we've been forced to watch recently lol. Let's hope we can get one more big OF bat in case KK is horrible at the plate or gets hurt.

 

Wasn’t Nimmo the original target beforehand too? I think the plan A was like trade Teo, sign Nimmo, trade one of the catchers for a pitcher.

 

Signing KK and Bassit and trading for Varsho seems like plan C almost, and it still ain’t bad at all. Lower offensive output for sure, but that defense in the OF will be sexy af.

[Laika]

Toronto almost never has “targets”. It’s not how they operate.

 

Personal opinion but I don’t think they were that hot for Nimmo or Conforto, for defensive reasons. From everything they’ve said improving run prevention was a huge priority. Nimmo isn’t a bad defender but he’s kind of a fringe CF, like Springer

 

I bet Toronto thought they had some of the worst corner outfield defense in the game recently

[JaysAllMighty]

I bet Toronto thought they had some of the worst corner outfield defense in the game recently

 

And very frustrating to watch, championship teams have good defense, our corner outfielders were a disaster. Happy we solved this problem and so are our pitchers.

[Spanky99]

Yeah, stressless D is good for the heart.

[Deadpool]

Seems like we were really trying to get Conforto so once that failed, we pivoted to the trade. I don't think we would have went after KK otherwise.

 

I personally wish we kept Teo and rolled the dice that we could get a comp pick if he had a good enough year. Although I won't have any issues watching super elite defense in the OF after what we've been forced to watch recently lol. Let's hope we can get one more big OF bat in case KK is horrible at the plate or gets hurt.

 

We got a solid reliever and a prospect that's farther along than (and probably about as valuable as) a comp pick would have been. I don't think we're going to have any offensive issues this year even without Teo, and we saved $14M. I'm 100% on board with the Teo move even in hindsight.

 

I might not have signed KK with Varsho in the fold, but that's more about wanting Varsho to play CF than it is about not wanting KK...

 

I'm reasonably comfortable with this team as it is now, I think it's a playoff team without question (barring injury, or serious underperformance out of nowhere) and is well positioned to make a deep run. Solid top of the rotation, good pen, great lineup.

 

Now, bring on the MiLB deals with spring training invites!

[Jimcanuck]

We got a solid reliever and a prospect that's farther along than (and probably about as valuable as) a comp pick would have been. I don't think we're going to have any offensive issues this year even without Teo, and we saved $14M. I'm 100% on board with the Teo move even in hindsight.

 

I might not have signed KK with Varsho in the fold, but that's more about wanting Varsho to play CF than it is about not wanting KK...

 

I'm reasonably comfortable with this team as it is now, I think it's a playoff team without question (barring injury, or serious underperformance out of nowhere) and is well positioned to make a deep run. Solid top of the rotation, good pen, great lineup.

 

Now, bring on the MiLB deals with spring training invites!

 

Remember a few weeks ago when FA were being signed to these ridiculous contracts, and some were bitching about Shatkins sitting on their hands, too scared to make a move, etc.

 

A couple of surgical transactions and the Jays are transformed into a much better team, with well above average offense and defense, and above average pitching.

 

Would like to see a pitching upgrade, but fine if that is something mid-season. Either trade or maybe Zulu or Tiedemann break down the door.

[jaysguy44]

[Carlos Danger]

 

Awesome Tweet and so true! Thanks for posting.

[Spanky99]

Awesome Tweet and so true! Thanks for posting.

 

Stop foaming, dude.

[Ehjays]

 

Not sure if you noticed, But Varsho actually took an extra bag on Tapia, Does he not know Gunslinger Tapia is dangerous to run on.

[G-Snarls]

Not sure if you noticed, But Varsho actually took an extra bag on Tapia, Does he not know Gunslinger Tapia is dangerous to run on.

 

Watching Tapia's lackadaisical throws in a Rockies uniform reminds me that he won't play for Toronto this year and that makes me very happy

[connorp]

Remember a few weeks ago when FA were being signed to these ridiculous contracts, and some were bitching about Shatkins sitting on their hands, too scared to make a move, etc.

 

A couple of surgical transactions and the Jays are transformed into a much better team, with well above average offense and defense, and above average pitching.

 

Would like to see a pitching upgrade, but fine if that is something mid-season. Either trade or maybe Zulu or Tiedemann break down the door.

 

The Jays restructured. They sacrificed hitting for defense. Teo was one of the best bats in the AL. Lourdes is a better hitter than either new OF. Yes, Varsho could take a step forward, but Lourdes is probably a better bet to find his power. But for the sacrifice, the defense got way better. So it’s a trade off. Is it overkill? Like could’ve you kept Teo and gotten a CF?

 

They picked up one RP who is certainly intriguing but totally unproven. They also lost their clear #1 prospect. They did bolster the rotation with a nice signing. I’m in the camp of one more guy at the backend.

 

Anyways, they did parlay the 2022 team into a squad with better long term prospects (I mean control) and that’s something that you could celebrate

 

Don’t be a homer and act like the 2023 squad is “way better”. It not. It’s built different

[Dagagad]

And very frustrating to watch, championship teams have good defense, our corner outfielders were a disaster. Happy we solved this problem and so are our pitchers.

 

The phillies were some more baseball randomness from a title.

[Terminator]

I bet Toronto thought they had some of the worst corner outfield defense in the game recently

 

Yeah and it really bit them in the ass in the elimination game. Tapia blew two 50/50 balls in LF and then there was the collision in CF on top of it. If any of those 3 plays are made we win the game.

 

Apparently Ross was pretty pissed off about that because he acquired not just one but two gold glove caliber CFers. We went from a bottom 5 OF defense to a Top 5.

[Brownie19]

I said the same thing about Austin Martin and was correct (moreso Atkins than myself). We'll have to see if they are also correct in this evaluation. They wouldn't have moved him otherwise, as they wouldn't knowingly make a bad trade.

 

Your trophy is in the mail.

 

Why on earth couldn't the Jays FO believe Moreno will become a quality regular and still want to trade him? We got a 4.6 WAR player - that's no a 'quality regular' - that's a star player. 26th best amongst all positional players in 2022. Your comment remains bizarre.

[Eat My Shatkins]

The Jays FO could very well believe Moreno will be a star and still decided to trade him because they also believe Varsho is (and will continue to be) a star and fills much more of a need for the Jays right now than Moreno, for obvious reasons.

[Jimcanuck]

By Grant's logic the Nats decided that Soto sucks.

[connorp]

Yeah and it really bit them in the ass in the elimination game. Tapia blew two 50/50 balls in LF and then there was the collision in CF on top of it. If any of those 3 plays are made we win the game.

 

Apparently Ross was pretty pissed off about that because he acquired not just one but two gold glove caliber CFers. We went from a bottom 5 OF defense to a Top 5.

 

Teo drove in 4 runs and scored 3. Without him it’s a different game as well

[LGBJ29]

The Jays restructured. They sacrificed hitting for defense. Teo was one of the best bats in the AL. Lourdes is a better hitter than either new OF. Yes, Varsho could take a step forward, but Lourdes is probably a better bet to find his power. But for the sacrifice, the defense got way better. So it’s a trade off. Is it overkill? Like could’ve you kept Teo and gotten a CF?

 

They picked up one RP who is certainly intriguing but totally unproven. They also lost their clear #1 prospect. They did bolster the rotation with a nice signing. I’m in the camp of one more guy at the backend.

 

Anyways, they did parlay the 2022 team into a squad with better long term prospects (I mean control) and that’s something that you could celebrate

 

Don’t be a homer and act like the 2023 squad is “way better”. It not. It’s built different

 

Curious as to why you believe 29 year old Lourdes, whose ISO has declined 4 straight years, is a "better bet" to find his power than a 26 year old Varsho taking a step forward?