Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[max silver]

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear -

 

My suggestion of Manoah, Kikuchi, and Tiedemann to Padres for Soto (on the condition he signs - 13 years $450m), was based on the fact that various talking heads suggesting that Manoah wants out of Toronto - that Kikuchi is arguably a sell high candidate on the last year of his deal and thus the trade is largely Tidemann for Soto. And on the condition that we can extend Soto.

 

The reason for this suggestion is that the free agent market is terrible for hitters but is very deep on the pitching front. The idea is to also make a big splash and sign Yoshinobu Yamamoto who arguably becomes the ace of the staff if reports on him are accurate - so we upgrade on Kikuchi and he would be a long-term sign.

 

Tiudemann may be very good but he may be another Pearson. With a team looking to win a WS the next two years with the Bo and Vlad window do you want to dick around with the Maybe that is Tiedemann. I think San Diego will look to trade Soto - I think it's going to require a stiff price.

 

If you can hold back Tiedemann and pay some sort of lesser price - that would be ideal. San Diego isn't likely going to throw in the towel - they may want MLB ready players or roster players in return.

 

I consider Soto to be more of a generational talent than a Vladdy - I am not a big fan of paying for one-dimensional players - Vladdy is basically now a marginal defensive 1b - a good but not perhaps great hitter. I don't think we can rely on him being one of those 40 homer .900+ OPS bats. Maybe he is and just needs protection.

 

The Jays apparently have 40-50 million to spend - but I think when building a winner - everything needs to be on the table - if you can sign a Yamamoto, trade for Soto - pick up someone like Montgomery and JD Martinez - maybe you have to move Vladdy and his projected $20m to make financial room.

 

I am not big on moving Vladdy - but IF you are going to do it - I think you can get away with it based on his baserunning blunder - the fanbase isn't as high on him so you can move him without too much pushback. Timing and Optics. Moving him frees up money where now you have 60-70 million to spend - then making these other moves doesn't seem so impossible.

 

As Barker of Blair and Barker noted the Jays hitters were easy to pitch to and one dimensional and all struggled with the elevated fastball - Springer, Chapman, Varsho basically can't hit 95+. They feel like the Jays need to bring in 5 bats. That's impossible. The alternative is to bring in high quality and possibly strengthen your strength -pitching.

 

I mean JD Martinez on a 1-year deal, One major lefty bat Ohtani/Soto trade/Bellinger (iffY), and even - gulp - Lourdes Gurriel Jr - with Yamamoto and some sort of Montgomery number 3 starter and pick up Green's contract and add one more bullpen arm (Hicks) would be a pretty great offseason. But that sure looks unlikely to me and it sort of needs to be what happens. This team has a lot of holes and I am not a fan of "we hope that Kirk, Vlad, Varsho, Springer all rebound next year" Nothing suggested to me that they can rebound at the plate.

 

The Blue Jays weren't a bad offense away from home, as they were 7th in runs per game and 5th by wRC+. They were excellent with runners on base away from Rogers Center as they produced a very good 121 wRC+. Their offensive issues were largely limited to Rogers Center, where they were really 23rd in runs scored and really poor in the clutch in particular with a lousy 83 wRC+ with runners in scoring position. Vlad and Varsho each had very pronounced splits with worse numbers at home, but each of their home issues was limited to RHP only. I think the home run scoring issues have a very good chance to be a weird one off type of issue that won't be repeated and don't see a need to essentially blow up a really large portion of the team.

 

If you aren't a fan of paying one dimensional players you are certainly willing to pay an extremely high price for a player who very well may need to be a full time DH within a few more seasons. Soto was one of baseball's worst left fielders last season just ahead of the likes of Benintendi (this one is a surprise) and Kyle Schwarber. I still think Vlad has a similar physical talent level but I'm also becoming lukewarm to the idea he's ever going to become the consistent offensive threat his latent talent suggests should be possible. Trading him for the purposes of salary flexibility in return for what's likely to be a very weak return feels very risky as I get the feeling he is very motivated to improve on his poor results in the 2023 season. Given the quality of contact he produces he's likely a very small tweak away from returning to something that resembles the monster numbers he produced in 2021.

 

Do have any links available that Manoah wants out of Toronto? Atkins is on record that Alek hasn't asked for a trade (that can be taken with a grain of salt) and I don't recall any credible reports to indicate the opposite is true.

[Key22]

The Blue Jays weren't a bad offense away from home, as they were 7th in runs per game and 5th by wRC+. They were excellent with runners on base away from Rogers Center as they produced a very good 121 wRC+. Their offensive issues were largely limited to Rogers Center, where they were really 23rd in runs scored and really poor in the clutch in particular with a lousy 83 wRC+ with runners in scoring position. Vlad and Varsho each had very pronounced splits with worse numbers at home, but each of their home issues was limited to RHP only. I think the home run scoring issues have a very good chance to be a weird one off type of issue that won't be repeated and don't see a need to essentially blow up a really large portion of the team.

 

If you aren't a fan of paying one dimensional players you are certainly willing to pay an extremely high price for a player who very well may need to be a full time DH within a few more seasons. Soto was one of baseball's worst left fielders last season just ahead of the likes of Benintendi (this one is a surprise) and Kyle Schwarber. I still think Vlad has a similar physical talent level but I'm also becoming lukewarm to the idea he's ever going to become the consistent offensive threat his latent talent suggests should be possible. Trading him for the purposes of salary flexibility in return for what's likely to be a very weak return feels very risky as I get the feeling he is very motivated to improve on his poor results in the 2023 season. Given the quality of contact he produces he's likely a very small tweak away from returning to something that resembles the monster numbers he produced in 2021.

 

Do have any links available that Manoah wants out of Toronto? Atkins is on record that Alek hasn't asked for a trade (that can be taken with a grain of salt) and I don't recall any credible reports to indicate the opposite is true.

 

I may be overreacting to Vladdy's downward numbers but his big year came playing in triple-A ballparks I believe. If we're talking about giving out the largest contract in Jays history I am more in favour of Soto than Vladdy - but you are correct - neither of them is exactly thrilling on defense. Personally, I am more a fan of doling out big money to someone who is excellent/elite on both sides of the baseball like a Mike Trout but such is not available. I am just more confident in Soto's bat than Vladdy's bat.

 

Regarding Manoah, this was suggested by one of the guests on the Blair and Barker show on Sportsnet by someone like Ben Nicholson Smith or Jeff Passan that he was not happy about being sent down the second time - so perhaps we can take that with a grain of salt. I am no fan of trading low on him. However we don't really know what is going on behind the scenes - all we have are guesses.

 

I think the Jays will be in tough if the MLB predictions on salary and teams are true 12 years to Bellinger? I think the problem with some statistics is almost all of them are geared over the long term. And the Jays have to play 81 games at Rogers center. I am not that interested on placement finishes like whether a team finishes 4th in all of baseball in X stat - what I want is - can you win the game when it counts? I don't care that you outscore Oakland 45-0 in a three-game series - can you beat a middling Minnesota Twins when the chips are down? You need to build a team for both making the playoffs and a team that can win in a short series.

 

The Jays are not alone here - LA and Atlanta frustrate their fans even more trotting out the excuse that they had too much rest. Still, I think Barker does note some various issues regarding the eye test that when you face the Rangers or the Phillies they have hitters you actually fear - with Vladdy as he noted - he still absolutely crushes anything in the middle of the plate (crushes mistakes) - but curve balls down and away - he's an easy out for any pitcher who can actually execute. Is he smart enough to take those pitches and walk? This is a guy in the minors who walked more than he struck out - but that is not translating in the majors - Soto walked more than he struck out last year and the year before and the year before.

 

I like the idea of Vladdy and Soto as a right-left mashing duo - Manny Ramirez was a s*** defender and Ortiz was basically a DH - a feared 1-2 punch f ever there was one. The Jays line-up is constructed to try and get multiple hits to get runs. I don't like that for the playoffs. As Barker notes it's too hard to string multiple hits off the best pitchers. You need those Shwarber types to go nuts. Even then it wasn't enough but with our pitching man.

[Jimcanuck]

I looked at the projections on link Spank sent. I still don't think its wise to bank on more than 2 ish WAR from Kirk, Varsho or Springer.

 

Springer's 35 with a big injury history. You can argue both ways his underlying numbers from 2023 - there are some good numbers and some ugly ones.

 

If Kirk is the same size/weight as last year its an issue. His offense since mid 2022 has been a elite bat to ball low chase slap contact hitter with 2nd percentile speed. Not a good combo. His D is fine although he isn't great against the run.

 

Varsho should pick up more WAR in CF. His arm strength is 40th percentile and it will be interesting to see over a full season how he handles it. Comes down to him rebounding from an 85 wRC+ in '23.

 

We need those guys to be 2-3 WAR and Bo and Vlad to be 4-5 each and we should be in good shape.

 

Chances are those 3 deliver over 2 WAR each, but its the turn of a few others to underperform. The way it always goes. The way the Jays are constructed, they can't overcome underperformance from more than 2-3 players. Unlike say Atlanta that has so many big weapons across the board.

[Spanky99]

I looked at the projections on link Spank sent. I still don't think its wise to bank on more than 2 ish WAR from Kirk, Varsho or Springer.

 

Springer's 35 with a big injury history. You can argue both ways his underlying numbers from 2023 - there are some good numbers and some ugly ones.

 

If Kirk is the same size/weight as last year its an issue. His offense since mid 2022 has been a elite bat to ball low chase slap contact hitter with 2nd percentile speed. Not a good combo. His D is fine although he isn't great against the run.

 

Varsho should pick up more WAR in CF. His arm strength is 40th percentile and it will be interesting to see over a full season how he handles it. Comes down to him rebounding from an 85 wRC+ in '23.

 

We need those guys to be 2-3 WAR and Bo and Vlad to be 4-5 each and we should be in good shape.

 

Well, it's a median, so regression roles supreme in everyone, including additions and subtractions from every club. In itself regression usually finds its mean. Anomaly's happen.

[BigCecil]

Well, it's a median, so regression roles supreme in everyone, including additions and subtractions from every club. In itself regression usually finds its mean. Anomaly's happen.

 

Of course bud, its baseball. Projections are just that. I get their value. Too much reliance on nerdishness is what got Berrios taken out early in Game 2 this year.

 

I don't give a s*** at the end of the day. Construct a solid roster. Up, down, over perform, under perform. roger rover, clearance clarence, over under - Just win 90+ games and the D if possible, and make a solid playoff push and I'm a thankful, grateful and forgiving Jays fan. Give me some joy and happy memories to bask in for a bit in this window lol Also lets get back to mashing some home runs. Aside from the pen and ultimate ending result, 2021 was pretty fun.

[Zoeya_niPi]

скотч оптом купить москва http://www.skotch-optom-1.ru/.

[Frenchsoup]

Daulton Varsho is an amazing baseball player.

[Frenchsoup]

Jays should lock him up.

[John_Havok]

Jays should lock him up.

 

Did you mean incarcerate or...sign to longer term deal?

[Frenchsoup]

i'd bet on Varsho