GDT - KC Royals @ Toronto Blue Jays (3/3) 3:07pm ET

[Stangstag]

You guys realize it probably takes a fat multi year deal to sign Teoscar, right? He's not picking the Jays over the Dodgers at even money

 

You don’t know that

[Eat My Shatkins]

You don’t know that

 

Yeah, and you don't know that "they didn't even try"

 

I mean, unless you were sitting in all the talks they had with players, agents and other teams execs

[Spanky99]

Where's Spanky to provide me the team's wRC+ to show the offense is good. Term is trying to hold Team Not Panicking down alone lol.

 

Mid-pack and dropping wRC+ at 98 and dropping... fangraphs.com will provide you with this information, meat.

[Stangstag]

Yeah, and you don't know that "they didn't even try"

 

I mean, unless you were sitting in all the talks they had with players, agents and other teams execs

 

Sorry, its wrong to say they didn’t try.

 

Its more accurate to say they didn’t get it done. They DID NOT address the issues from last year. That’s 100% fact

[Laika]

Justin Turner has a great wRC+ and IKF has been good value so far

 

You can't even say they should have done something else specifically in the offseason. I mean you can, it just doesn't make much sense when you think about it. Even the Varsho trade looks okay at the moment.

 

No, the issues are far deeper.

 

Coaching, player development, high level game preparation...

[Brownie19]

I probably would have used the KK money to try and bring back one of Lourdes or Teo. Tyler Oneill was a cheap option that has been fantastic so far. Pederson.

 

Make a trade for a 3B or something. IDK, but they didn’t do a good enough job at addressing the #1 issue from last year. They honestly barely tried.

 

FFS...the Jays literally could have signed Ohtani and the offense would still been awful (especially since Turner wouldn't have been on the team). The offense is s*** because Bo, Vlad, Kirk and Springer are all terrible. Raise your hand if you knew Bo was going to turn into Ryan Goins with a 62 wRC+ this year...

 

IMO, the FO banked on Vlad and Kirk improving in a predictable manner for hitters with their pedigree and age - and, well - here we are getting the 5th percentile result. IMO, it was a very difficult position to be in. You either sold Vlad and Kirk at 50 cents on the dollar or you trust they improve in accordance with statistical data. I mean we could have sold Varsho for 50 cents on the dollar this offseason too....but I'm happy we didn't.

 

I'm sad to see Springer fall off this cliff. When we signed him, he seemed like a good candidate to age gracefully....moving from CF to RF, with some old man hitting skills that should keep him relevant past 35 or 36. Sometimes you get Justin Turner or Nelly Cruz and other times you're just done. The Cards probably feel the same with Goldy, Astros with Abreu. It sucks.

 

You can blame the hitting coaches all you want if it makes you feel good. I strongly believe those coaches have a MUCH smaller impact on the player results than you think. Do you guys think after the Leafs exit the 1st round again, they should fire their skating coaches and shooting coaches? Me neither.

 

Atkins and Schneider won't survive this season, but I'm not so sure there was some other GM wizard out there who would have done drastically better, given these circumstances. Imagine if Atkins signed Ohtani and was run out of town the same year. It almost happened!

[Eat My Shatkins]

Sorry, its wrong to say they didn’t try.

 

Its more accurate to say they didn’t get it done. They DID NOT address the issues from last year. That’s 100% fact

 

I agree, and I'm saying there doesn't appear that there was much that they could about it.

 

I mean it's easy to sit here and cherry pick the odd guy that was available and is off to a good start this year and say they should have got him, but I can cherry pick just as many guys that people here wanted the Jays to get who are off to s*** starts too. That's the point, nothing out there was a sure thing like Ohtani and Soto.

 

And for the players off to hot starts that were available, maybe the Jays talked to them and got shot down.

[Stangstag]

FFS...the Jays literally could have signed Ohtani and the offense would still been awful (especially since Turner wouldn't have been on the team). The offense is s*** because Bo, Vlad, Kirk and Springer are all terrible. Raise your hand if you knew Bo was going to turn into Ryan Goins with a 62 wRC+ this year...

 

IMO, the FO banked on Vlad and Kirk improving in a predictable manner for hitters with their pedigree and age - and, well - here we are getting the 5th percentile result. IMO, it was a very difficult position to be in. You either sold Vlad and Kirk at 50 cents on the dollar or you trust they improve in accordance with statistical data. I mean we could have sold Varsho for 50 cents on the dollar this offseason too....but I'm happy we didn't.

 

I'm sad to see Springer fall off this cliff. When we signed him, he seemed like a good candidate to age gracefully....moving from CF to RF, with some old man hitting skills that should keep him relevant past 35 or 36. Sometimes you get Justin Turner or Nelly Cruz and other times you're just done. The Cards probably feel the same with Goldy, Astros with Abreu. It sucks.

 

You can blame the hitting coaches all you want if it makes you feel good. I strongly believe those coaches have a MUCH smaller impact on the player results than you think. Do you guys think after the Leafs exit the 1st round again, they should fire their skating coaches and shooting coaches? Me neither.

 

Atkins and Schneider won't survive this season, but I'm not so sure there was some other GM wizard out there who would have done drastically better, given these circumstances. Imagine if Atkins signed Ohtani and was run out of town the same year. It almost happened!

 

Ok but they didn’t sign Ohtani, and they didn’t get Soto. And they didn’t even sign the 3rd or 4th or 5th best free agent hitters on the market.

 

I don’t really care about your ******** hypotheticals

[Brownie19]

Lourdes is at 105 wRC+ (same as last year). No way I wanted him for $42M over 3 years. Teo is coming back to earth too. He's only at a 121 wRC+ with a 33% K rate. I'm not so sure either of these guys are going to be major impact players this years. They certainly wouldn't have fixed the Jays offensive woes.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Ok but they didn’t sign Ohtani, and they didn’t get Soto. And they didn’t even sign the 3rd or 4th or 5th best free agent hitters on the market.

 

I don’t really care about your ******** hypotheticals

 

That's because the 3rd, 4th and 5th best free agents were basically going to be over paid garbage the minute they were signed.

[Spanky99]

May 1st...

[Stangstag]

May 1st...

 

Hopefully all this discussion looks stupid and premature by the time July rolls around and we’re debating which trade deadline targets we should be going after

[Brownie19]

Ok but they didn’t sign Ohtani, and they didn’t get Soto. And they didn’t even sign the 3rd or 4th or 5th best free agent hitters on the market.

 

I don’t really care about your ******** hypotheticals

 

I'm just saying the Jays could have signed the #1 FA/Player in all of baseball and it won't be enough to overcome how s***** the core has unpredictably been this year.

 

Of all the FA hitters this year, Turner has been one of the very best with a 154 wRC+. They did bring in one of the best bats available and these are the results. The core has sunk the team. Must be that Vladdy curse that we end up with the 5th percentile results from Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer. I don't think anyone in their right mind ever would have predicted this result.

 

Atkins literally could have signed Chapman, Bellinger, Garver and Solar. All the pop we hoped for - or we could have landed Ohtani. Fans would have praised Atkins for his efforts to address the offense....and we'd still be a flaming pile of dog s*** right now.

Edited May 2, 2024 by Brownie19

[BigCecil]

Hopefully all this discussion looks stupid and premature by the time July rolls around and we’re debating which trade deadline targets we should be going after

 

Yep. The product is so boring now aside from some of the starting pitching and D we have seen. They aren't winning as much as we want, so its frustrating.

 

It is May 1st. The FO made some bets agree or disagree. Soon enough we'll see over a larger sample size if they pay off. I'm still on 85 W but as you say the deadline can have a big impact. We didn't even roll in 2015 to win the D until after deadline moves.

[Spanky99]

Lourdes is at 105 wRC+ (same as last year). No way I wanted him for $42M over 3 years. Teo is coming back to earth too. He's only at a 121 wRC+ with a 33% K rate. I'm not so sure either of these guys are going to be major impact players this years. They certainly wouldn't have fixed the Jays offensive woes.

 

I wanted Teo, but he obviously wanted more years and silly money from us. Wanted nothing to do with Lourdes. It is what it is, and I expect regression from plenty of our bats, I mean... I hope.

[Spanky99]

Hopefully all this discussion looks stupid and premature by the time July rolls around and we’re debating which trade deadline targets we should be going after

 

No doubt. I'm not panicking yet. 2 games under .500, could be far worst.

[BigCecil]

No doubt. I'm not panicking yet. 2 games under .500, could be far worst.

 

Amen, if you look at our MLB team pitching and batting stats rankings, and I know you do, its a Festivus miracle we are only 2 under. D is only area we are excelling.

[Brownie19]

No doubt. I'm not panicking yet. 2 games under .500, could be far worst.

 

I would have swore we were 7-10 games under .500 already.

[Masterbather]

I would have swore we were 7-10 games under .500 already.

Our expected record probably is. We stink but we've been a bit lucky.

[Stangstag]

I would have swore we were 7-10 games under .500 already.

 

I haven’t looked at the record at all so that’s a pleasant surprise

[Carlos Danger]

Bottom dweller:

 

HITS

RBI

SLG%

OPS

RISP

 

But Guillermo Martinez is still around because people saying that he is instrumental in VarshoÂ’s offensive numbers turnaround this season (small sample size) and totally ignored his impact on the teamÂ’s overall offensive numbers (bigger sample size since last season)

 

Fire the guy !

 

He is not even responsible for Varsho. According to Blair and Barker today, it is because Varsho’s dad got involved. The improvement stems from his dad.

[glory]

Our expected record probably is. We stink but we've been a bit lucky.

 

According to MLB.com's standings, the Jays expected record is 12-20. Honestly that record seems more reasonable to how they have looked all season. They really are lucky to be 15-17.

 

As far as the "who could the Jays have gotten" argument, I think people are missing one important one: they could have moved on from the Vlad/Bo core. This isn't hindsight, I said at the time (and others may have as well) that trading Bichette was a very logical decision if they decided to go that route. Trading Vlad less so, since it would have been selling low, but the best FA SS was a washed Tim Anderson, and Bichette came with 2 cost certain years of control. You also knew/know that he's salivating to test free agency. Very reasonable player to trade in that scenario, especially when you saw how 2023 played out.

 

If you wanted to keep Vlad and Bo and then go for it (AA 2015 style), then it wouldn't have been that smart but at least it would have been grounded in some logic. Keeping both and doing what they did has/had very limited upside. Of course, it's early, so no one should be giving up. I think what makes things worse is that the 2024 team, much like 2023, is one of the most boring, frustrating, vanilla, cookie cutter teams in the league from an entertainment standpoint. It sucks to watch them. At least entertain us if you're going to frustrate us.

[Stangstag]

He is not even responsible for Varsho. According to Blair and Barker today, it is because Varsho’s dad got involved. The improvement stems from his dad.

 

Lol if true. Our coaching staff is a mess.

 

The only time our offense was good was when Dante Bichette was helping out

[Spanky99]

Amen, if you look at our MLB team pitching and batting stats rankings, and I know you do, its a Festivus miracle we are only 2 under. D is only area we are excelling.

 

The Pythagorean record is at 12-20, need a great May, not off to a good start, lol.

[connorp]

The Pythagorean record is at 12-20, need a great May, not off to a good start, lol.

 

Look what the cat dragged in. Since when have you chimed in like a Negative Nancy. You starting to break?

[Spanky99]

Look what the cat dragged in. Since when have you chimed in like a Negative Nancy. You starting to break?

 

Pffftttt... not a chance, Jays win 90 was what I said, I'm not letting a s*** April and small sample change my mind, unlike the likes of you troll.

[Spanky99]

Lol if true. Our coaching staff is a mess.

 

The only time our offense was good was when Dante Bichette was helping out

 

They also mentioned that on B and B.

[jaysblue]

But I'm going to ask this what feels like the 5,678th time....please tell me what in the flying f*** the FO was supposed to do to "fix" the offense?

 

You can't be serious? It's the job of a front office during an offseason to fix or improve issues that plagued the team the year before to the best of their ability. Even if it's a slight improvement.

 

After the struggles offensively in 2023, this front office had an entire offseason to improve the lineup and instead you're asking what was the FO supposed to do? Like you're giving them a free pass to stand pat and keep the status quo, which wasn't going to work and so far isn't working.

 

Other than bringing in Justin Turner to replace Brandon Belt they didn't improve the lineup at all. Probably made it worse. The FO needs to be held accountable for fumbling the ball again if they don't address the lineup needs before the deadline.

[Governator]

Was at the game yday... zzzzz

 

My wife said I should get a new jersey, I said there isn't a single player from this team that I want to walk around with on my back and left it at that.

[Olerud363]

Was at the game yday... zzzzz

 

My wife said I should get a new jersey, I said there isn't a single player from this team that I want to walk around with on my back and left it at that.

 

When Spencer Horwitz proves the doubters wrong and hits .290 with 7 homers but good 1b defense and still gets 2.9 WAR you should get his Jersey. He will be the best player on the Jays 75 win future teams.

 

(cardinal rule of Jays down cycles, can't lose more than 70 and get good draft pick so guys like Spencer will always help them to the 75 win mark).