Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Terminator]

To be fair - nobody was suggesting that you trade Kirk for s***. Most agreed that you'd only move him if the piece coming back is also a young player under control for many years who has a chance to be SPECIAL.

 

LOL I don't think so pal. I just saw a Kirk for Luis Garcia trade posted. That ain't special.

[Captain_Obvious]

Please find whoever Danny Jansen's optometrist is and ask him to increase the strength of your eye glass prescription because Steamer is only projecting a 12 point increase on his 2022 wRC+, not 20.

 

Next, please read a Bill James book, or maybe even a Fangraphs article (anything other than a Sheryl Ring article would probably teach you a thing or two) because it's not "extremely bullish" to expect a 23 year old player to get better.

 

Kirk is fat. Fat position players almost never improve past 23. Look it up.

[Terminator]

Kirk is fat. Fat position players almost never improve past 23. Look it up.

 

He doesn't have to improve. He's already elite.

[Captain_Obvious]

LOL I don't think so pal. I just saw a Kirk for Luis Garcia trade posted. That ain't special.

 

Kirk of ONeill and Hicks. ONeill was a 5+ WAR player in 2021! That is like ... 1 year ago. Jansen's eye sight can be fixed with glasses. Kirk's roundness cannot be fixed.

[Captain_Obvious]

He doesn't have to improve. He's already elite.

 

LOL no he is not. He is slugging just over 0.400. Slap hitting and walking is less valuable for fat players. Look it up.

[Terminator]

Kirk of ONeill and Hicks. ONeill was a 5+ WAR player in 2021! That is like ... 1 year ago. Jansen's eye sight can be fixed with glasses. Kirk's roundness cannot be fixed.

 

It's a credit to Jansen's optometrist that he was able to provide him with the high strength lenses that he needs to be a professional athlete but sadly you're ignoring the fact that Jansen also has a body made of glass.

 

In 5 seasons he was able to eclipse 100 games only once and he just barely did it by eeking out 107 games. Sadly, that number of games seemed to really take a toll on his numbers as he put up a putrid .207/.279/.360 slash line.

[Terminator]

Qualified catcher seasons since 1990 where the catcher was 23 or younger and was an above average hitter

 

1994 Pudge 112 wRC+

1997 Kendall 119 wRC+

2005 Mauer 108 wRC+

2006 Mauer 141 wRC+

2013 Sal Perez 106 wRC+

2022 Kirk 129 wRC+

 

look at this f***ing company, lol.

hall of famer, probable hall of famer, 37 WAR career catcher, and then the worst of them is a 7x all star

 

you simply do not trade this guy unless the piece coming back is also a young player under control for many years who has a chance to be SPECIAL

 

I want apologies from both StankyLeg and Captain Dumbass. Kirk is a hall of fame talent and you two have been wrongly coming after me for weeks. This post is complete and total vindication.

[jaysblue]

Kirk of ONeill and Hicks. ONeill was a 5+ WAR player in 2021! That is like ... 1 year ago. Jansen's eye sight can be fixed with glasses. Kirk's roundness cannot be fixed.

 

O'Neill is only under control for two more seasons and is a corner OF. Kirk is way more valuable. Hicks isn't enough to sway the deal for the Jays. Jansen for O'Neill IMO would be a great trade if it could happen!

[keggy]

Agreed - although Sal Perez is perhaps the overrated player in the league over the past 10 years. Kirk for Corbin Carroll it is then. Get it done Atkins.

 

Huge catchers like Perez are almost always a bad idea. If they had roboumps he would be a hall of famer.

[Stangstag]

LOL I don't think so pal. I just saw a Kirk for Luis Garcia trade posted. That ain't special.

 

Hey I was going off someone else’s data

[Solaxys]

Trade all 3, move Espinal C.

 

Discussion over.

 

Oh and get Zach Collins back for lefty slugging

[keggy]

Does anyone know how much weight Kirk lost in the 2021 offseason? He allegedly went on a diet and lost a lot of weight. I can't tell but I don't have a good eye for men's bodies.

 

Presumably he could continue losing weight this offseason? Slim Kirk should is an untouchable asset in my opinion.

[Stangstag]

Does anyone know how much weight Kirk lost in the 2021 offseason? He allegedly went on a diet and lost a lot of weight. I can't tell but I don't have a good eye for men's bodies.

 

Presumably he could continue losing weight this offseason? Slim Kirk should is an untouchable asset in my opinion.

 

At least 4 pounds

[John_Havok]

Does anyone know how much weight Kirk lost in the 2021 offseason? He allegedly went on a diet and lost a lot of weight. I can't tell but I don't have a good eye for men's bodies.

 

Presumably he could continue losing weight this offseason? Slim Kirk should is an untouchable asset in my opinion.

 

I didn’t notice any real difference in his body. I know both he and Vlad were working on that s*** and there was the announcement of how much Vlad had lost, but I’m skeptical as to the real numbers. Vlad and Kirk both got slower in relation to league average, not exactly indicative of significant weight loss.

[Captain_Obvious]

At least 4 pounds

 

He lost -10 pounds by the end of the season.

[Ehjays]

Take it for what it is, its a guy on Twitter that has a youtube channel and says he got inside info on the Olson trade before he was traded from the A's. Now he is saying he has same inside info on Acuna being traded...Toronto is listed,

 

[Jimcanuck]

If the Mariners get Acuna, holy s*** that team.

[Brownie19]

Huge catchers like Perez are almost always a bad idea. If they had roboumps he would be a hall of famer.

 

Huh? You think the framing issues drag his defense so far down that his career 104 wRC+ bat + defense would put him in the HOF? I don't buy it. Career WAR is 15.7 as he enters his age 33 season. Framing hasn't cut like 20-25 WAR off his career numbers has it?

[InsideThePark]

Morosi has this earlier, Jays analysis starts halfway through, mostly catching, but an interesting Bo/Acuna + FA SS segment. Bo and Acuna have identical 94.1 median values on BTV. 1 for 1 trade then sign Correa/Turner, trade a catcher for a top end starter, sign a good pen arm and win 158 games next year

 

[InsideThePark]

With the rumour that Corbin Burns could possibly be available(

), and the above Morosi comment it's time to me to go into fantasy land. This is likely over budget at 220 million not counting Ryu, but trade values are in brackets from baseball trade values, free agent predictions from ESPN, and arb estimates from MLBTR

 

Bichette(94.1) for Acuna(94.1)

Moreno(61.4) + Teo(8.7) + Kasevich(8.4) for Corbin Burnes(78.4)

Sign Correa 8 x 33.1

Sign Andrew Heaney 2 x 10 million

Sign Taylor Rogers 2 x 7 million

Trade Richards for some prospect

Non tender Tapia, Zimmer, Thornton

White and Pearson optioned to AAA for now

 

 

Springer, Correa, Acuna, Vladdy, Kirk, Chapman, Jansen, Gurriel, Espinal

 

Lopez, Merrifield, Biggio, Horwitz

 

Burnes, Manoah, Gausman, Berrios, Heaney

 

Romano, Rogers, Bass, Garcia, Cimber, Pop, Mayza, Kikuchi

[Stangstag]

With the rumour that Corbin Burns could possibly be available(

), and the above Morosi comment it's time to me to go into fantasy land. This is likely over budget at 220 million not counting Ryu, but trade values are in brackets from baseball trade values, free agent predictions from ESPN, and arb estimates from MLBTR

 

Bichette(94.1) for Acuna(94.1)

Moreno(61.4) + Teo(8.7) + Kasevich(8.4) for Corbin Burnes(78.4)

Sign Correa 8 x 33.1

Sign Andrew Heaney 2 x 10 million

Sign Taylor Rogers 2 x 7 million

Trade Richards for some prospect

Non tender Tapia, Zimmer, Thornton

White and Pearson optioned to AAA for now

 

 

Springer, Correa, Acuna, Vladdy, Kirk, Chapman, Jansen, Gurriel, Espinal

 

Lopez, Merrifield, Biggio, Horwitz

 

Burnes, Manoah, Gausman, Berrios, Heaney

 

Romano, Rogers, Bass, Garcia, Cimber, Pop, Mayza, Kikuchi

 

Absolute lunacy. But I like it

[THANOS]

I was thinking he meant with Abreu included.

 

Funny enough I posted a trade porposal on Reddit of Kirk+ for Javier & Abreu lol. Jays would probably need to add a bit, but the framework and values on either side check out.

[The Iceman]

Kirk is fat. Fat position players almost never improve past 23. Look it up.

 

Hall of famer Pudge Rodriguez is a decent body type compare for Kirk.

In fairness catcher is the only position that you can play as a chunk.

You do not need to be fast or fit, it is the one position where you can play without issue until 35+ years old.

 

If the Jays move a catcher I would roll with jansen and Kirk. The known commodities. And trade the kid who also has the highest trade value attached to him.

Hopefully flip him for a high ceiling CF+.

[MikeM3]

Jansen is underrated as a hitter and an athlete.

[connorp]

If the Mariners get Acuna, holy s*** that team.

 

Too bad they missed cashing in on Kelenic at his peak.

[connorp]

Jansen is underrated as a hitter and an athlete.

 

Well those people just need to make it over to this board

[John_Havok]

Hall of famer Pudge Rodriguez is a decent body type compare for Kirk.

In fairness catcher is the only position that you can play as a chunk.

You do not need to be fast or fit, it is the one position where you can play without issue until 35+ years old.

 

If the Jays move a catcher I would roll with jansen and Kirk. The known commodities. And trade the kid who also has the highest trade value attached to him.

Hopefully flip him for a high ceiling CF+.

 

Pudge was never round though, he was stocky and thick, but he was built like a short brick shithouse.

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Why would the Braves want to trade Acuna? It makes me wonder if AA thinks Acuna will never get back to where he was pre injury.

[Jays24]

Why would the Braves want to trade Acuna? It makes me wonder if AA thinks Acuna will never get back to where he was pre injury.

 

Ya I don't get it either. He's locked up to one of the best deals in baseball. Why bother trying to trade him unless he's horrible in the locker room.

[TheHurl]

Hall of famer Pudge Rodriguez is a decent body type compare for Kirk.

+.

 

Twins...