Blue Jays-Dodgers World Series Game 7 Thread: Max Scherzer vs Shohei Ohtani

[mphenhef]

30 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

ALCS 2003 game 7? Especially for those fans who remember 1986.  2011 Rangers.  2016 Indians.  

Literally speaking 2 outs a way, 1 inch away this was the closest ever and not getting it. 

The more I read fan reactions I do become a bit more worried.  Like is this bad enough that they need to reconfigure the team?  Trade Varsho and Hoffman.  Don't resign any of our own free agents (but still spend equivalent money), just get some new guys in the clubhouse who didn't experience this. 

Very close equivalent pain has been experienced before.  Especially some of the tough LCS losses where the teams never got the World Series even.  Life went on.  However is this so extreme that special care has to be taken when preparing the team for next year?

2001...Mo, the greatest closer ever...blew game 7 of the World Series.  It happens.

[Hipfan]

30 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

ALCS 2003 game 7? Especially for those fans who remember 1986.  2011 Rangers.  2016 Indians.  

Literally speaking 2 outs a way, 1 inch away this was the closest ever and not getting it. 

The more I read fan reactions I do become a bit more worried.  Like is this bad enough that they need to reconfigure the team?  Trade Varsho and Hoffman.  Don't resign any of our own free agents (but still spend equivalent money), just get some new guys in the clubhouse who didn't experience this. 

Very close equivalent pain has been experienced before.  Especially some of the tough LCS losses where the teams never got the World Series even.  Life went on.  However is this so extreme that special care has to be taken when preparing the team for next year?

No, don't reconfigure the team. I think this will become a formative moment that propels them to win it all next year. Knowing they were so close, and let it slip away, they will become more focused and intentional. They will come out of spring training on fire, lead the division wire-to-wire and bring it home. Book it!

[Olerud363.354]

2 minutes ago, Terminator said:

For something like this, because it's so ridiculous, there's really nothing you can do but white knuckle it. If you tell any normies about it they'll think you're a psychopath. So here I am, not being able to sleep and stewing over it for days on end now, and I don't know when I'll get over it. At this point in time it feels like never.

Honestly don't to mean to mock fans who are taking this hard with my post about the Rangers/Arizona Diamondbacks comparison.  It is genuinely the absolute closest a team has got to winning the World Series without winning the World Series.  By any measure one of the closest and toughest sports losses ever in a championship. 

Some examples out there of other rough s***, but not sure anyone has ever both given the lead 2 outs away and then had a bottom of the 9th like we did.  

I guess different people find different things hard.  I genuinely do think the franchises who have gone through this kind of become more interesting franchises than if they had lost the same World Series 4-1.  Like the Boston Red Sox would not be as interesting a franchise if the 1986 World Series was ho-hum. 

Financially more money to be made with more games and a closer series.  So this makes the team more money then any other loss scenario.

Now the effect of this on fans and even players?  Don't know.  Could be some issues there I guess based on what I am reading, and does make me think do they need to consider trading guys like Hoffman and Varsho. 

[SeranthonySantander]

7 minutes ago, Hipfan said:

No, don't reconfigure the team. I think this will become a formative moment that propels them to win it all next year. Knowing they were so close, and let it slip away, they will become more focused and intentional. They will come out of spring training on fire, lead the division wire-to-wire and bring it home. Book it!

This was the same team that in September split 4 games with the rays, then lost the next series to the royals and next series to the Red Sox. All while under pressure to hold the division 

They had to get really hot and get perfect performances from 80% of the team to get as far as they did 

Not to mention 3 top offences of our opponents going cold and their pitchers have a few bad games 

[Terminator]

4 minutes ago, Hipfan said:

No, don't reconfigure the team. I think this will become a formative moment that propels them to win it all next year. Knowing they were so close, and let it slip away, they will become more focused and intentional. They will come out of spring training on fire, lead the division wire-to-wire and bring it home. Book it!

I do hope that the extra gear that some of these guys showed in the postseason carries over into the regular season next year.

Usually you don’t put too much stock into a small sample like this, but it 18 games against what were probably the three best rotations in baseball; and we absolutely nuked them.

Hopefully Vlad found a new level of focus he can sustain. Let’s get those numbers, especially the homers, back up. Maybe Ernie can hit .300 next year. Maybe Addison becomes a .270 guy with 30 bombs. Something to dream on.

[Olerud363.354]

3 minutes ago, SeranthonySantander said:

They had to get really hot and get perfect performances from 80% of the team to get as far as they did 

Right.  So many things could have gone wrong earlier.   I think the first must have win came off of a Varsho Grand Slam.  He grounds out there (like he did Saturday) maybe none of this happens because we don't get past the Red Sox in WC, or we are the ones with our pitching messed up (not the Yankees) in ALDS.

 

[Olerud363.354]

5 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Maybe Addison becomes a .270 guy with 30 bombs. Something to dream on.

Addison seems to be on a Josh Donaldson development path.   If he got there, or even Josh Donaldson light the great thing is his age 26-30 seasons will be controlled.   Defensive stats I've seen also show him a better third basemen then right fielder, so a little bit better hitting and full time at third could maybe lead a 4 WAR player.  Unrealistic to expect MVP seasons like Donaldson, so JD light. 

[CJ-Freeway]

1 hour ago, Terminator said:

You guys are missing the point.

Yes, almost every year ends in defeat. But having a bad April in 2013 isn't even close to blowing a World Series victory in Game 7. It's not even in the same stratosphere. 

And this isn't your average Game 7 World Series loss, it's much worse given how it happened. This is the kind of pain almost no sports fans have ever experienced before.

Agreed 100%. I remember April 2013, it was nothing compared to what happened up here on Saturday night.

 

I was actually looking up baseball history earlier, to read about crushing playoffs defeats like the one we just witnessed. There's the 2016 Indians/Guardians, but before that, you have to go up all the way to 1981. (I skipped Buckner in 1986 because it wasn't a winner takes-all game) The God damned Dodgers were also involved in that one-- crushing the other Canadian team, the Expos (at the time) in game 7 of the NLCS by ONE RUN. And get this: the Dodgers player who hit the game winning homerun in the top of the 9th, Rick Monday, also bears number 16... just like Will Smith, who hit the game winning homer on Saturday night.

 

Kinda spooky if you ask me... in any case, Canada does not fare well against the Dodgers in the playoffs. That's twice now that they have beaten a Canadian team in the playoffs in soul-crushing fashion.

[mphenhef]

22 minutes ago, SeranthonySantander said:

This was the same team that in September split 4 games with the rays, then lost the next series to the royals and next series to the Red Sox. All while under pressure to hold the division 

They had to get really hot and get perfect performances from 80% of the team to get as far as they did 

Not to mention 3 top offences of our opponents going cold and their pitchers have a few bad games 

Every single team in the league had stretches like that.   That's baseball.

 

And maybe, just maybe...this team had something to do with those offenses going cold and those pitchers having bad games.  Hint:  It wasn't a coincidence.

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, Jimcanuck said:

Nah, what happens is the Jays have the bases loaded with NO outs.

You can't say this with any certainty.  If Vlad is on 1st to start that inning, they pitch to Bo, Barger, Kirk, etc. differently.  The butterfly effect is a real thing. 

[Hipfan]

1 hour ago, SeranthonySantander said:

This was the same team that in September split 4 games with the rays, then lost the next series to the royals and next series to the Red Sox. All while under pressure to hold the division 

They had to get really hot and get perfect performances from 80% of the team to get as far as they did 

Not to mention 3 top offences of our opponents going cold and their pitchers have a few bad games 

Well they were also missing their prized free agent signing, for basically the whole year, and their #1 player had a subpar season, and went cold for much of September. The playoffs showed everyone what this team is capable of. Obviously next year players will perform differently (not expecting Springer to repeat his numbers), but the overall talent level of the team is that of a contender. Now, I'd love it if they brought in a couple of top end arms (a starter and reliever), but I wouldn't go about making drastic changes to the makeup of the team. The talent is real, the chemistry is real, and the pain of that loss should bring all of them extra motivation.

[SeranthonySantander]

22 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

You can't say this with any certainty.  If Vlad is on 1st to start that inning, they pitch to Bo, Barger, Kirk, etc. differently.  The butterfly effect is a real thing. 

I been screaming butterfly effect from the roof tops.

Multiple peoples lives will be saved because of the loss.  Someone who may have got into a car accident is going to be saved because he calls in sick due to depression after the loss.  But also due to the butterfly effect, many people will die as a distant result of things that happened Sunday night/morning 

[Laika]

2026 team will be twice as hungry 

the power of friendship cannot win you a world series, after all

time to embrace the power of money and steroids and other nefarious things 

104 win season coming up

[Terminator]

12 minutes ago, SeranthonySantander said:

I been screaming butterfly effect from the roof tops.

Multiple peoples lives will be saved because of the loss.  Someone who may have got into a car accident is going to be saved because he calls in sick due to depression after the loss.  But also due to the butterfly effect, many people will die as a distant result of things that happened Sunday night/morning 

Certainly feels like it!

[L54]

As it stands today, the American League is wide open. There are no obvious heavy weights and I don’t think that changes after the offseason 

Of course making the World Series again would be difficult, but I don’t think it’s some Hail Mary sort of scenario 

[glory]

Sunday was very depressing for me, but now it's Tuesday, life has moved on, and I think I'm back into off-season hot stove mode. Realizing at the end of the day it's just a sport and doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things is the best way to look at it. I kinda wish the lockout that is happening next season would have just happened now so that Jays fans could detach for a few months, but instead we will hopefully have an exciting winter of (lots of dead time followed by) big moves. 

On the bright side, between the Jays making a long playoff run and the WBC coming up, it's going to feel like a short winter. 

[Stangstag]

2 hours ago, hanton said:

Love this, he doesn't need to be told to swing away.  3 - 0 green light

If that pitch is like 1 or 2 inches further in, we’re probably celebrating a game 7 walkoff homerun.

Tough

[Stangstag]

2 hours ago, Jimcanuck said:

Yes it was, not a pitch to swing at in a 3-0 count.

I'm not getting on Vlad's case, just pointing out another of a long list of plays that would have changed the game in the Jays favour.

 

 

Peanut brain

[Eat My Shatkins]

Hopefully the blame game starts to dissipate over time.

Pretty much every single player had a hand in getting that awesome team through 162 games with 94 wins, three rounds of playoffs and within two outs of winning it all in the top of 9, and then again just one bounce or a measly inch from winning it all i the bottom of 9. I'm sure they feel the pain at a much higher level than any of us fans do. Honestly pisses me off to see post after post dragging so many players through the mud because of the mistakes they made leading up to it. Nature of the beast I guess, but it still irks me.

 

It was by far the best Blue Jays team I've followed in my adult life and hopefully there is more to come with so many of these players returning.

[Brownie19]

21 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

If that pitch is like 1 or 2 inches further in, we’re probably celebrating a game 7 walkoff homerun.

Tough

It was probably 1/8th of an inch on Ernie's hit - just needed 1 degree lower LA, or 0.1 seconds earlier contact on the swing.  It was right there.  That's baseball. 

[Omar]

Waiting for the first snow fall of the season to officially get this World Series out of my system. Nothing says baseball is over and time to move on better than the white stuff on the ground for the first time.  Torontonians always have a s*** fit and forget how to drive.

One positive that I think this organization learned over the course of the playoffs is how important it is to win your division and bypass the wildcard games.  To me that was the catalyst that set the whole playoffs in motion for this team. I hope and believe that Atkins and Shapiro learned that lesson as well. The mind set should be always be to have the best record in the AL.  No more of the loser mentality ie. Just get in the playoffs and see what happens. 

There is no earthly reason that this team should not compete for the ALCS yearly. Toronto should be the Dodgers of the north.   Success breeds success.

Getting to the World Series is no longer some ephemeral goal for me as a Jays fan.  It's a reality now and for the the future.  This fanbase deserves it. God knows I do too.

[SeranthonySantander]

That anxiety from Sunday and Monday has died off slightly

[Pinkfloid]

Both the excitement and pain will fade with time.  Each time I see an MLB post online or a YouTube thumbnail I still get a twinge of sadness and regret in my chest.  It's still too fresh right now.  Give it a few weeks and our attention will shift to other things and it will get easier.  I just hope every time I see the AL Champions banner at the dome that it only brings back the 99.99% good memories and feelings I had this season. 

[BigRed]

7 hours ago, SeranthonySantander said:

This was the same team that in September split 4 games with the rays, then lost the next series to the royals and next series to the Red Sox. All while under pressure to hold the division 

They had to get really hot and get perfect performances from 80% of the team to get as far as they did 

Not to mention 3 top offences of our opponents going cold and their pitchers have a few bad games 

This is what I worry about.

Everyone is laser focused on everything that went right in the playoffs (and all the big moments), but people are forgetting how average they were down the stretch. They had like 2 weeks (12 games I believe) with a magic number of 7 (combined Jays wins / Yankee losses) to clinch the division and it came down to the last game.

Replay that WS against the Dodgers 100 times and I doubt Snell gets shelled in both starts like that more than a handful of times. Game 5 with all the wild pitches / passed balls was so bizzare.

My point is the Jays had a lot of timely hits and luck go their way thats going to be difficult to reproduce. The chances of Springer having that type of season again? Cmon. Guys like Clement, Barger, Lukes, etc played out of their minds for what they were brought in for -- and to expect them to maintain that is a lot of pressure and probably a bit unreasonable.

[ComeTogether]

I didn't know the radio guy was his son.

 

 

 

[Stangstag]

23 hours ago, BigRed said:

This is what I worry about.

Everyone is laser focused on everything that went right in the playoffs (and all the big moments), but people are forgetting how average they were down the stretch. They had like 2 weeks (12 games I believe) with a magic number of 7 (combined Jays wins / Yankee losses) to clinch the division and it came down to the last game.

Replay that WS against the Dodgers 100 times and I doubt Snell gets shelled in both starts like that more than a handful of times. Game 5 with all the wild pitches / passed balls was so bizzare.

My point is the Jays had a lot of timely hits and luck go their way thats going to be difficult to reproduce. The chances of Springer having that type of season again? Cmon. Guys like Clement, Barger, Lukes, etc played out of their minds for what they were brought in for -- and to expect them to maintain that is a lot of pressure and probably a bit unreasonable.

The Yankees were also hot as hell, Jays were cool down the stretch but not afwul.

They found a new gear in the playoffs, a big part of that was Vlad putting the team on his back.

[SeranthonySantander]

Have been looking at some more YouTube World Series stuff and dodgers reddit

It’s not a lot of commending their team, there is some of that.

 

mostly what I see is vitriol and hate directed at blue jays fans and the players though.

i definitely expect to see that during most World Series but expected a lesser version from dodgers fans.  Considering them being a big favourite, payroll and deferrals, 3 wins in 6 years etc

Something about Toronto players and fans seemed to rub them the wrong way.  If we had won, short of Snells interview, I don’t really have any issues with their fans or other players really.  You have the expected ohtani and Springer boos but otherwise I don’t know what their problem is.

But in the future I’ll definitely be rooting their downfall just as pretty much every other fan base does.

[Stangstag]

Just saw a podcast vid with Pierzynski and Max Muncy, Max says IKF’s lead was fine. He also talked about how him and Will Smith discussed (during the pitching change) a possible back pick on IKF there if he got too far off the bag.

So boom I was right about the possibility of a back pick. It was probably in the scouting report and factored in to IKF’s leadoff

[Stangstag]

2 hours ago, SeranthonySantander said:

Have been looking at some more YouTube World Series stuff and dodgers reddit

It’s not a lot of commending their team, there is some of that.

 

mostly what I see is vitriol and hate directed at blue jays fans and the players though.

i definitely expect to see that during most World Series but expected a lesser version from dodgers fans.  Considering them being a big favourite, payroll and deferrals, 3 wins in 6 years etc

Something about Toronto players and fans seemed to rub them the wrong way.  If we had won, short of Snells interview, I don’t really have any issues with their fans or other players really.  You have the expected ohtani and Springer boos but otherwise I don’t know what their problem is.

But in the future I’ll definitely be rooting their downfall just as pretty much every other fan base does.

Yankees fans have one of the largest fanbases in the sport and we trolled the s*** out of them when we beat them. Dodgers fans are also lame. Easy to understand.

[SeranthonySantander]

11 minutes ago, Stangstag said:

Yankees fans have one of the largest fanbases in the sport and we trolled the s*** out of them when we beat them. Dodgers fans are also lame. Easy to understand.

We have somewhat of a rivalry with the yankees.  A bunch of bad blood from this season and the division race.  Dodgers, no real history.