Toronto Blue Jays, Vladimir Guerrero Jr "Very Close" to Deal

[Laika]

This guy doesn't even have a GOOD approach at the plate some of the time, let alone an elite approach.

Yes, when his timing is down he can cook hits and homers for months and be a top 5 hitter in the sport because hit natural hit and power tool combo is elite, but just look at his K rate right now. How many quality plate appearances has he had this year? Lots of wasted at bats. And he has of course had entire seasons where he never found that timing or dialed in his swing.

Sigh.

So many ways this deal can end up in a disaster. 

[Dr. Dinger]

I’d rather take the chance of a Miggy/Pujols albatross contract vs watching this team slide into a 5 year rebuild with no ability to attract big free agents because we let our only viable superstar walk. 
 

I’d also really not enjoy watching Vlad have the best seasons of his career with Boston or the Mets or Dodgers. 

[Brownie19]

Yeah - I'm with Dinger. I think it's a good thing to keep Vlad.

Vlad, Kirk, Gimenez becomes the young, comtrolled core you can build around.

[Masterbather]

13 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Yeah - I'm with Dinger. I think it's a good thing to keep Vlad.

Vlad, Kirk, Gimenez becomes the young, comtrolled core you can build around.

You call that a core? One occasional great hitter and a couple of average to below average hitters is a core? 

That's f***ing depressing and nauseating.

[jaysblue]

 

[jaysblue]

2 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

You call that a core? One occasional great hitter and a couple of average to below average hitters is a core? 

That's f***ing depressing and nauseating.

Better than a core of just Gimenez, Kirk and Varsho 🤣

But yeah, even with Vladdy around, the core isn't good enough. Proof is from the last how many years. 

[Jays24]

16 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

Better than a core of just Gimenez, Kirk and Varsho 🤣

But yeah, even with Vladdy around, the core isn't good enough. Proof is from the last how many years. 

From cores of Jose/Edwin/Donaldson to Vladdy/Gimenez/Kirk haha jeeez. 

[jaysblue]

10 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

From cores of Jose/Edwin/Donaldson to Vladdy/Gimenez/Kirk haha jeeez. 

Yup. When I read that yesterday, I wanted to throw up haha. 

[Masterbather]

29 minutes ago, Jays24 said:

From cores of Jose/Edwin/Donaldson to Vladdy/Gimenez/Kirk haha jeeez. 

Exactly! That's what the core of a dangerous team looks like. That's when we were actual contenders. 

[max silver]

46 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

Exactly! That's what the core of a dangerous team looks like. That's when we were actual contenders. 

A largely slap hitting team still beat that team in the playoffs though. That goes to show that that the randomness of the MLB playoffs is the great equalizer despite how things look on paper heading into a series.

[max silver]

2 hours ago, Jays24 said:

If 500/14 is the best deal the Jays can get then might as well wait until free agency and hope to match the best offer.  There is 0 discount on that deal to do it now. 

Could have had him for 300M last year if the Jays wanted to jump the gun.  Putting up great numbers once all the pressure was off last year shouldn't change your opinion to increase the offer by 200M.. 

Don't try to pretend that you wouldn't have been livid if the front office handed Vlad $300 million coming off of a 1 win season.

[Waylanderz]

I have been lurking on the old site and here but count me in the group that don't see Vladdy being worth 500m.  Yeah, it will suck to see him on the Yankees or Red Sox for a few year but his later years is going to be horrible on the books.

[jaysblue]

Need to re-create Vladdy in the aggregate. 

[Brownie19]

2 hours ago, Jays24 said:

From cores of Jose/Edwin/Donaldson to Vladdy/Gimenez/Kirk haha jeeez. 

That's fair, but our core isn't 35 either.  They are all signed and entering their prime at least.  It's not a terrible situation to be in - especially if you believe in strength up the middle.

I loved the JB/EE/JD core. Loved it, but we had that great core for all of 2 years.

Gimenez is the wildcard.  If he's a 5+ WAR player, then that is a core you can build around.

[jaysblue]

2 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

That's fair, but our core isn't 35 either.  They are all signed and entering their prime at least.  It's not a terrible situation to be in - especially if you believe in strength up the middle.

I loved the JB/EE/JD core. Loved it, but we had that great core for all of 2 years.

Gimenez is the wildcard.  If he's a 5+ WAR player, then that is a core you can build around.

If the Jays can add some pieces around those guys, I think that's fine. Gimenez, Kirk and Varsho are definitely nice pieces to build your roster, though not as the main guys. 

Hopefully Gimenez can be a 5-6 WAR player and prove to be that moving forward. If he is, then he fills a huge piece of the puzzle. 

[Laika]

9 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

That's fair, but our core isn't 35 either.  They are all signed and entering their prime at least.  It's not a terrible situation to be in - especially if you believe in strength up the middle.

I loved the JB/EE/JD core. Loved it, but we had that great core for all of 2 years.

Gimenez is the wildcard.  If he's a 5+ WAR player, then that is a core you can build around.

Yeah the current core would be a much better "long term core" but that 2015/2016 trip is an exceptionally better "short term core" 

Need more star power to ever actually win though. Maybe it's Nimmala. Think about Vlad/Nimmala/Mystery Player being the championship core on a few years with Kirk and Gimenez as productive secondary dudes.

[Masterbather]

2 hours ago, max silver said:

A largely slap hitting team still beat that team in the playoffs though. That goes to show that that the randomness of the MLB playoffs is the great equalizer despite how things look on paper heading into a series.

Yeah I'll take my chances with the 2015 team thanks. I get how probability works, I also get you're trying to maximize probabilities in sports because that's the only thing you can do.

And we lost that series because Brett Cecil was hurt. In fact we probably lost the world series because of it.

[John_Havok]

5 hours ago, Jays24 said:

If 500/14 is the best deal the Jays can get then might as well wait until free agency and hope to match the best offer.  There is 0 discount on that deal to do it now. 

Could have had him for 300M last year if the Jays wanted to jump the gun.  Putting up great numbers once all the pressure was off last year shouldn't change your opinion to increase the offer by 200M.. 

No way Vlad would have signed a 300m dollar deal though...from e everything he's said publicly there's no reason to ever suspect he wanted less than a 500 million dollar extension. 

[Delete_My_Account_Thanks]

4 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

Yeah - I'm with Dinger. I think it's a good thing to keep Vlad.

Vlad, Kirk, Gimenez becomes the young, comtrolled core you can build around.

We agree on something!

[Stangstag]

13 hours ago, BTS said:

Please no 

 

10 hours ago, jerb said:

 

Im sure the casuals will love it though! And surely they will buy more tickets now right? And they’ll continue to come even when the team sucks and has less payroll flexibility to improve the roster because we’re paying a 1B 40 million per year! Im sure they will still come to games!

[Stangstag]

8 hours ago, jerb said:

 

f***in gross if true

[max silver]

6 hours ago, Masterbather said:

Yeah I'll take my chances with the 2015 team thanks. I get how probability works, I also get you're trying to maximize probabilities in sports because that's the only thing you can do.

And we lost that series because Brett Cecil was hurt. In fact we probably lost the world series because of it.

Not having Brett Cecil certainly complicated things for the Blue Jays but it's not true that was the only reason that they lost the series. 

[Masterbather]

5 minutes ago, max silver said:

Not having Brett Cecil certainly complicated things for the Blue Jays but it's not true that was the only reason that they lost the series. 

Well there's never one reason, but I'm absolutely convinced that if he's healthy we win that series. So many critical moments needed him and we didn't have him against their lefties. I sure as hell would have loved to have seen the universe where he was healthy. Outside of the '93 team, that was the best Blue Jays team I'd ever seen put together. 2021 was pretty close, but the FO f***ing blew it with a s***** bullpen for far too long.

[gruber9292]

Vladdy's only worth 10/350 absolute max 

[mphenhef]

I will go to my grave believing that Royals team was stealing/relaying signs in the late innings.  Too many games where the bats came alive in the late innings.

[BB17]

2 hours ago, mphenhef said:

I will go to my grave believing that Royals team was stealing/relaying signs in the late innings.  Too many games where the bats came alive in the late innings.

That Jays 2015 team was stealing signs all year lol. Leiper would relay signs down to hitters from 1st base.

Tons of teams did it, just they didn’t do it with video like the Astros did.

[Nexii]

They really shouldn't... we're heading into a recession/depression. Player salaries are going to regress a bit

[xposbrad]

6 hours ago, gruber9292 said:

Vladdy's only worth 10/350 absolute max 

That's MAX. Even then that's not team friendly. You are still looking at 2-3 dead years on that which at 35m/yr is quite a lot. 

[xposbrad]

Since Vladdy wants more money than he's actually worth, there's virtually no chance you can regret trading him unless you get 2 prospects that bust. Even then, you still have that capital to overpay free agents and not sign them until they are 40 years old. But chances are 1 of the prospects provides value and you still have money to sign 2 free agents at around 8-10m/war. 

[Laika]

Interesting how it hasn't happened. 

Big "press conference at 9" energy.