General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[BCZ]

This is panning out to be a long dreadful season

[DonJays]

Proud to stand strong with my even-keeled and always rationale friend Spanky. Together we are on Team Not Panicking After 7 Games (It's really just the 3 game Astros series because we scored 20 runs against the Rays).

 

Will be expecting full apologies from the remaining 99% of the board after we are proven right.

 

But here’s the thing, you aren’t being rationale, you are completely irrational. This team is average with a massive payroll and a sub average farm system. The future is bleak.

 

I hate the negative parasites on these boards as much as anyone. I wish I could cave their heads in with a sac rocks but they aren’t entirely wrong. Except for being whiney bitches.

 

I’ve defended this team for over 30 years but this version simply isn’t it. Too many slow and fat players with low IQ. This core isn’t it. They might make a wildecard spot but who cares as they aren’t winning s***. Ship out the disappointing “core” and rebuild

[tazsub3]

at least we might get rid of shatkins, if so , i will endure the pain.

[G-Snarls]

It's just hard to be optimistic

 

That's all

[hanton]

 

Do other organizations talk about a young player's weaknesses to the media to justify not playing them like this? Schneider (the dipshit, not Davis) could have just said "we think this is the best lineup for the matchup today" and left it at that. I mean that would have been BS too but at least it wasn't shedding a spotlight on a perceived weakness of one of your own players.

 

It could be the media pressing him as well but It's garbage and BNS is a shill for the team - can't stand this. After what he did vs Hader the narrative should have been COMPLELTEY different. How he owned one of the best relievers in baseball. Instead we're seeing tweets about his weakness? ffs.

 

All Schneider had to say is we wanted to get some of the other regulars in the lineup and that Babe will have plenty of opportunity to shine for this team. I don't think Schneider is this dumb so something else is going on here

[thatoneguy]

Bingo. This is not a small sample size. Time doesn't get erased at the start of every season. This is season #2 of an inept offence. A s***** player doesn't the benefit of 'small sample size' when their entire previous season was garbage. A team shouldn't either.

 

And the management that failed to address a very obvious problem shouldn't either. Nevermind the clusterf*** that ended last season.

[Stangstag]

Its a good thing we have ++outfield defense. Cause its way more important than offense. Atkins knows whatsup

 

Can’t defend flyballs if they go over the fence tho. Fatal oversight by the front office

[Eat My Shatkins]

Maybe Atkins is on the hot seat or maybe the higher ups don't find much fault with his body of work knowing there wasn't much out there this off season as far as proven bats goes. They took a run at Ohtani and kicked tires or were in discussions with pretty much every power bat available. If there is good feasible reasons none were brought in Atkins bosses will know whether or not he's to blame.

[MikeM3]

Hey maybe give the guy with a career 1000 ops a chance to learn to hit high fastballs considering everyone else sucks?

[G-Snarls]

Hey maybe give the guy with a career 1000 ops a chance to learn to hit high fastballs considering everyone else sucks?

 

Let him face Stroman for sure

[G-Snarls]

It will be insufferable BTW if Stroman shuts us down too

[Stangstag]

Hey maybe give the guy with a career 1000 ops a chance to learn to hit high fastballs considering everyone else sucks?

 

But Biggio might mature into a .750 OPS bat if he gets 400 PA! He’s only 28!

[Abomination]

It will be insufferable BTW if Stroman shuts us down too

 

Stroman will be insufferable if he shuts us down.

[5ToolPhenom]

This will be the 2017 Jays.

 

Lots of people were apprehensive after the 2016 season... Others didn't want to believe it or couldn't see it. But let's wait and see (even though some of us don't need to).

 

I've had that hunch too, but the rotation this year is still very good. I think they should be able to hang around the 500 mark and at least be competitive whereas things got away from the 2017 club in a hurry. But my God, it's hard to get excited about this offense. The upside just isn't there.

[Masterbather]

I've had that hunch too, but the rotation this year is still very good. I think they should be able to hang around the 500 mark and at least be competitive whereas things got away from the 2017 club in a hurry. But my God, it's hard to get excited about this offense. The upside just isn't there.

That's the thing, it's the lack of real upside. Obviously, several players aren't going to continue to hit in the .100's, but there's not a lot of upside; there's no superstar talent. Bo is an all-star, Vlad is only okay. Turner might turn in a good season. Jano and Babe, if given an opportunity, can hit a lot of bombs, but compared to the teams we're competing against this just ain't it.

 

The lack of urgency from the front office over the past two offseasons, outside of the Ohtani business opportunity, has been staggering and disheartening. Not just the offense but we also have no real starting pitching depth if injuries or ineffectiveness should strike, just a bunch of useless warm bodies.

[bones10]

It seems dumb to me. He might whiff on REALLY GOOD fastballs up in the zone but he can still bang. Just watched all of his homers from 2023.

 

At least three were high fastballs, very top of the zone.

A 92mph stinker from Syndergaard (which means nothing)

A 94mph heater from Gore

93mph from Dany Jimenez

90mph from Logan T Allen

 

The rest seemed like middle middle hanging breaking balls.

 

What he is is an expert mistake pitch destroyer. Everybody makes mistakes once in a while.

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=6759c5dc-d911-4d30-9905-100af2958b24

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=422ff1fc-88d0-4179-ae57-5d8c6a05c4cc

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=71165c47-e65e-41d9-bf50-d28fcf173e0b

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=fd42ed62-65f0-41a3-80d9-869b0f11681c

 

If the team was benching him for a LHB that crushed pitchers like Javier, sure, go ahead I guess, but they aren't. They are benching him because IKF might poke a single through the right side once a game???

 

Like, this is exactly the same problem as the Jose Berrios decision last playoffs. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater by trying to be "objective and smart."

 

This is exactly what I thought, when he first got called up every broadcast they were talking about his hole up in the zone to the heater, even himself declaring it. Yet he continued to mash the league other than his slump to end the season, it got to the point that it was a meme that he was just gas lighting opposing pitchers into throwing him high heat, that he could handle. Also isn't also kind of a benefit to know where your holes are at the plate, where as someone like Vlad you just have no idea what in the f*** is wrong with him from ab to ab.

[Terminator]

But Biggio might mature into a .750 OPS bat if he gets 400 PA! He’s only 28!

 

I've been saying this for YEARS

 

Finally someone agrees

[The_DH]

I've been saying this for YEARS

 

Finally someone agrees

I agree on this, I think he could walk enough to do it.

[5ToolPhenom]

That's the thing, it's the lack of real upside. Obviously, several players aren't going to continue to hit in the .100's, but there's not a lot of upside; there's no superstar talent. Bo is an all-star, Vlad is only okay. Turner might turn in a good season. Jano and Babe, if given an opportunity, can hit a lot of bombs, but compared to the teams we're competing against this just ain't it.

 

The lack of urgency from the front office over the past two offseasons, outside of the Ohtani business opportunity, has been staggering and disheartening. Not just the offense but we also have no real starting pitching depth if injuries or ineffectiveness should strike, just a bunch of useless warm bodies.

 

That's well said. I couldn't agree more. There seems to be a real lack of desire to build upon the past success of the previous few seasons. It's almost like they're saying "Well, we snuck into the playoffs where anything could have happened and that's good enough for us". Whereas Yankees got much better, O's went out and added one of the best aces in the game, even Boston did a lot of great things - I think Canadian kid Tyler O'neil is going to rake in the AL east.

 

But it's like come on Atkins, what are we even doing here?

[Stangstag]

I've had that hunch too, but the rotation this year is still very good. I think they should be able to hang around the 500 mark and at least be competitive whereas things got away from the 2017 club in a hurry. But my God, it's hard to get excited about this offense. The upside just isn't there.

 

I’d argue the upside IS there.

 

A lineup of:

 

2021/22 Springer

2021 Vlad

2023 Bichette

2023 Turner

2022 Varsho

2021 Kirk

2023 Biggio

2022 IKF

2023 Keirmaier

 

Is extremely solid. None of these guys are far removed from good/great hitting seasons.

 

But it doesn’t seem like any lf these guys are coming out of their extended funk from last season.

[G-Snarls]

When is Danny Jansen back?

 

I'm more convinced than ever that he's the better overall player than Kirk.

 

Wish he could stay healthy and they extend him

[Stangstag]

When is Danny Jansen back?

 

I'm more convinced than ever that he's the better overall player than Kirk.

 

Wish he could stay healthy and they extend him

 

Probably back in a couple weeks? And yeah, dude has been elite and clutch with the bat the last couple seasons. I don’t think he’ll ever stay healthy though

[Eat My Shatkins]

Danny Jansen and Joey Votto will turn this MFing offense around!

 

And then they'll get hurt again....

[glory]

A lineup with both Jansen and Schneider in it does add an important dynamic (power) to a lineup that desperately needs it. At least they'll actually play Jansen once he comes back. He just can't stay on the field long enough.

 

But if there is any question about who the starting catcher is, there shouldn't be. Jansen is it. Unfortunately he's not durable so Kirk will play a lot regardless.

[connorp]

A wonder next year if all the Sally Sunshines will still make determinations from ST, like how good Varsho looks this year

[AMS528]

I’d argue the upside IS there.

 

A lineup of:

 

2021/22 Springer

2021 Vlad

2023 Bichette

2023 Turner

2022 Varsho

2021 Kirk

2023 Biggio

2022 IKF

2023 Keirmaier

 

Is extremely solid. None of these guys are far removed from good/great hitting seasons.

 

But it doesn’t seem like any lf these guys are coming out of their extended funk from last season.

 

Springer is 34 at a time when aging curves have become more normal so there's less reason to expect he'd be as good as that again. Slightly better than last year maybe.

 

Vlad has played at 2021 levels, 20% of the time. 1 out 5 full seasons. Again there is not a lot of reason to expect that level of upside, even if he was better than last year which we should at least expect.

 

Given that, you're not talking about much upside, but mostly hoping that Varsho hits better to compensate for not having Belt anymore, and Kirk is better to compensate for IKF being much worse than Chapman. Meanwhile KK is probably not going to be as good as last year cause he's also 34 and probably outperformed his peripherals last year.

 

Schneider also performed out of his mind for his stretch which is unlikely to repeat. Those are not 141 PAs we're getting again from anyone.

 

Given that, again it looks less like a reasonable upside and more like we're hoping to just match last years performance at the plate. The real upside part of that, where we exceed last years performance, needs Springer to not have aged, Vlad to return to elite hitting, Varsho hitting like 2022, KK repeating, and Kirk hitting again which seems more like the 95% outcome. There's a chance there but it's not so likely.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about that, but Belt and Chapman were good hitters or at least decent hitters in Chapman's case, so we were already starting from a deficit when looking at needing guys to bounce back to past form (Plus those Schneider ABs).

[Bear]

Last year the Blue Jays offense was like a balding man. Instead of dealing with issue with a hair transplant or just shaving their head in the off-season, they decided to go for a combover and hoped their minoxidil would suddenly start working because the instructions said the hair will shed before bouncing back for regrowth. Their combover isn't fooling anyone because they are still balding and a non-responder to minoxidil.

[hanton]

A wonder next year if all the Sally Sunshines will still make determinations from ST, like how good Varsho looks this year

 

he's never looked good, didn't the Jays lead the ST in homers? at one point. ST stats are so meaningless

[AMS528]

he's never looked good, didn't the Jays lead the ST in homers? at one point. ST stats are so meaningless

 

Gabe Gross looked like Babe Ruth in spring training one year. It's not completely meaningless, but it's also not meaningful.

[connorp]

I mean, of course it’s been talked about to death, but if the franchise really goes belly up, that Varsho trade was undoubtedly the “jump the shark” moment. They were a definite playoff team and their plan to get to the next level, was to collect DWAR and be willing to sacrifice O.