Jays Get Hicks from Cardinals

[gruber92]

I called this reaction just yesterday in regards to a Hader addition, yet here we are. lol... best reliever on the market and you bitch.

 

Even I'm ok with this one and im Ross' biggest critic.

[G-Snarls]

Name 1 prospect that AA traded that we regretted in 2015 lol.

 

In the end, seems like a good philosophy to try to capitalize on your windows while you can no matter the expense of your farm system. Let's go get a high end bat like Teo and keep pushing!!

 

Name one prospect Atkins has traded that we now regret.

 

None yet obviously, but that's sad in it's own way

 

Haven't yet made much yet of the draft picks under this regime

 

And pretty had to buy a whole starting rotation

 

I like the major league team we have now but it's going to hard toaintain competiveness beyond the next 2-3 years

[Jays24]

None yet obviously, but that's sad in it's own way

 

Haven't yet made much yet of the draft picks under this regime

 

And pretty had to buy a whole starting rotation

 

I like the major league team we have now but it's going to hard toaintain competiveness beyond the next 2-3 years

 

We might even see a huge drop off beginning next season when we start losing the likes of Chapman/Hicks/Merrifield/KK with very little resources remaining to replicate their performance.

[Masterbather]

Interesting...interesting🤔

 

I want Hader, I'm curious to see where he goes, I hate the idea of a competitor getting him, but we probably just don't have the pieces.

 

This is something though. Not quite in the same class of pitcher, he gives up a lot of base runners for a guy with that kind of arm. He's kind of another Romano with more strikeouts and more walks, generally better at keeping the ball in the ballpark though.

 

With him and a healthy Green, it certainly raises the floor of our bullpen considerably, eliminates the weak links and puts us in a much better spot.

[hanton]

Interesting...interesting��

 

I want Hader, I'm curious to see where he goes, I hate the idea of a competitor getting him, but we probably just don't have the pieces.

 

This is something though. Not quite in the same class of pitcher, he gives up a lot of base runners for a guy with that kind of arm. He's kind of another Romano with more strikeouts and more walks, generally better at keeping the ball in the ballpark though.

 

With him and a healthy Green, it certainly raises the floor of our bullpen considerably, eliminates the weak links and puts us in a much better spot.

 

yea if Hader is on the market - and it's not totally clear it's the case given the Padres not totally out of it - the cost would have been higher

 

Hicks is a good get IMO, at least we get an experienced back of the pen flame thrower - we gave up Tier 2/3 players

[Laika]

I like it.

 

Robberse could end up as a solid SP4 and be worth a lot but it is what it is.

 

Not worried about Kloffenstein

[kevb]

We might even see a huge drop off beginning next season when we start losing the likes of Chapman/Hicks/Merrifield/KK with very little resources remaining to replicate their performance.

 

That is, if you believe the current versions of Vladdy, Bo, Kirk, Varsho, and Springer have peaked, or are declining.

 

How did they acquire those players? One UFA (KK), and for the rest they gave up:

 

Gunnar Hoglund (24 years old and rocking a 6.79 ERA in A ball)

Kevin Smith

Kirby Snead

Zach Logue

Samad Taylor

Max Castillo

Adam Kloffenstein

Sem Robberse

 

Which of these prospects are you losing sleep over right now? For 2B, they have Espinal/Biggio plus internal options like Davis Schneider and Otto Lopez For 3B they have Barger and Orelvis knocking at the door. Varsho slides over from LF to CF, and the Jays may need to fill that LF role externally, but I am sure they could use Biggio or Schneider in a pinch.

 

But at the very least, they still have prospect/young player capital to go out and get guys.....they got those guys while giving up next to nothing.

[Abomination]

I'm not sure Hicks is ideal, but we need some thunder coming out of the pen and that's what he gives us. I'd be happier if he had an additional year of control though. We have some seriously wild, hard throwing guys in the pen. It's going to be very uncomfortable for the opposing batters.

[Krylian]

I swear somewhere AA is laughing at Shatkins for the moves they've made the past few years that have led to us having one of the worst Farm Systems in the game.

 

At least when AA did it, we had the best team in baseball on paper. Right now, we could easily still finish last in our division lol.

 

Are the Jays not on pace for 91 wins this season?

[glory]

I don't trust Schneider to handle a bullpen effectively, but a potential late inning group with Romano, Hicks, Green, and Swanson, with Richards, Mayza, and Jimi in the middle innings is pretty nice. Not sure how they are going to juggle things when Green and Ryu get back. If they are doing a 6 man rotation, then they'll only be able to carry 7 RP's. Pearson, Cabrera, and Jackson all have options so demoting them is probably the end result. Of course, permitting health and effectiveness.

 

As far as the trade, I think Kloff is a non prospect, but Sem is a tough loss for a team that has traded actual prospects for depth SP's in the past. They need to develop SP depth at some point, even if they are low ceiling. Ultimately I get why they did it. They desperately need a bat though, so let's see what happens. I think Pham is a real possibility.

[Jonn]

Feel people are sleeping on Adam Kloffenstein a bit. Had his best professional season at 22 in Double-A. He's been strong and consistent this Season. But going into the Season I doubt the Jays thought much of him. Looks like the Cardinals are putting him in AAA so will see how he does there. But I don't think he's nothing. Although he wasn't rated as top 30 prospect even on MLB.com which is kind of shocking to me.

[Jonn]

Also just watched his save against the Nationals. Threw 2 turbo sinkers back to back at 104 MPH to finish the game. Jesus lol.

 

Oh and apparently it was his 3rd day of pitching in a row lol

[Sorrow]

Feel people are sleeping on Adam Kloffenstein a bit. Had his best professional season at 22 in Double-A. He's been strong and consistent this Season. But going into the Season I doubt the Jays thought much of him. Looks like the Cardinals are putting him in AAA so will see how he does there. But I don't think he's nothing. Although he wasn't rated as top 30 prospect even on MLB.com which is kind of shocking to me.

 

He's basically a slider to fastball guy and the fastball is like 90-92. I don't know if the velocity and pitch mix is going to play in the big leagues.

[Stangstag]

Feel people are sleeping on Adam Kloffenstein a bit. Had his best professional season at 22 in Double-A. He's been strong and consistent this Season. But going into the Season I doubt the Jays thought much of him. Looks like the Cardinals are putting him in AAA so will see how he does there. But I don't think he's nothing. Although he wasn't rated as top 30 prospect even on MLB.com which is kind of shocking to me.

 

He has arguably better numbers at a younger age than top prospect Nick Frasso

[Krylian]

Feel people are sleeping on Adam Kloffenstein a bit. Had his best professional season at 22 in Double-A. He's been strong and consistent this Season. But going into the Season I doubt the Jays thought much of him. Looks like the Cardinals are putting him in AAA so will see how he does there. But I don't think he's nothing. Although he wasn't rated as top 30 prospect even on MLB.com which is kind of shocking to me.

 

So the Jays sold high you're saying.

[Terminator]

Hate to see us lose the SP depth. Seems like next year we would finally have some. But Hicks could be the best reliever on the market outside of Hader.

 

One thing to note is that both Kloff and Robberse need to be added to the 40 man after the season so that definitely played a factor.

 

I love the depth of the bullpen now. Come playoff time that could come in huge.

[Spanky99]

Feel people are sleeping on Adam Kloffenstein a bit. Had his best professional season at 22 in Double-A. He's been strong and consistent this Season. But going into the Season I doubt the Jays thought much of him. Looks like the Cardinals are putting him in AAA so will see how he does there. But I don't think he's nothing. Although he wasn't rated as top 30 prospect even on MLB.com which is kind of shocking to me.

 

Yeah, he isn't nothing, ranked 18th by BA...

 

18. Adam Kloffenstein

RHP

 

Ht: 6'5" | Wt: 243 | B-T: R-R

 

Age: 23

 

BA Grade/Risk: 45/High

 

June Update: It’s taken a few years for Kloffenstein to get his footing in professional ball. A 2018 third-round pick, the righthander endured through up and down periods over his three and a half seasons and never looked like much of a prospect. Left unprotected in the 2022 Rule 5 Draft, Kloffenstein was at a crossroads entering 2023. So far this spring Kloffenstein has been impressive. As of June 8 he’s tied for the Eastern League lead in strikeouts and ranks seventh in xFIP. Kloffenstein has a deep arsenal of pitches, throwing a sinker, slider, changeup, cutter, four-seam fastball and curveball. A majority of his usage is split between his slider and sinker. His sinker is a low-90s offering with heavy drop from a steeper approach angle that saw a two mph jump year over year. His slider is his most used pitch, a sweeper in the low-to-mid 80s that’s by far his best pitch from a command and feel standpoint. His cutter, changeup, curveball and four-seam fastball are all fringe to below-average offerings.

 

Scouting Grades: Fastball: 45. Slider: 55. Curveball: 40. Cutter: 45. Changeup: 40. Control: 45

[Omar]

Yeah, he isn't nothing, ranked 18th by BA...

 

18. Adam Kloffenstein

RHP

 

Ht: 6'5" | Wt: 243 | B-T: R-R

 

Age: 23

 

BA Grade/Risk: 45/High

 

June Update: It’s taken a few years for Kloffenstein to get his footing in professional ball. A 2018 third-round pick, the righthander endured through up and down periods over his three and a half seasons and never looked like much of a prospect. Left unprotected in the 2022 Rule 5 Draft, Kloffenstein was at a crossroads entering 2023. So far this spring Kloffenstein has been impressive. As of June 8 he’s tied for the Eastern League lead in strikeouts and ranks seventh in xFIP. Kloffenstein has a deep arsenal of pitches, throwing a sinker, slider, changeup, cutter, four-seam fastball and curveball. A majority of his usage is split between his slider and sinker. His sinker is a low-90s offering with heavy drop from a steeper approach angle that saw a two mph jump year over year. His slider is his most used pitch, a sweeper in the low-to-mid 80s that’s by far his best pitch from a command and feel standpoint. His cutter, changeup, curveball and four-seam fastball are all fringe to below-average offerings.

 

Scouting Grades: Fastball: 45. Slider: 55. Curveball: 40. Cutter: 45. Changeup: 40. Control: 45

 

Looks like he projects as long/middle relief as best case scenario. Is Atkins selling snakeoil:p

[RustyTrombone]

Kloff is another TJ Zuech. Robberse has more potential in him if he picked up more velo but for now he projects as a bit better than Kloff.

[Jonn]

So the Jays sold high you're saying.

 

Honestly yea. This could be the best it gets for him lol. Atleast as a prospect.

[Grant77]

It's a high price to pay and hurts to lose SP depth, but I believe that Hicks can be a difference maker in the playoffs.

[AdamGreenwood]

This trade is f*cking terrible. We didn't need another bullpen guy. Bullpen is fine.

 

Giving up two potential starters, for a two-months rental guy is assinine.

Then, factor in, that Hicks isn't actually all that good (career BB/9 over 5), and this trade is just ludicrously bad.

 

This is the kind of trade you make when you've been told that you're going to lose your job if you don't make the playoffs.

[Spanky99]

lol

[Krylian]

This trade is f*cking terrible. We didn't need another bullpen guy. Bullpen is fine.

 

Giving up two potential starters, for a two-months rental guy is assinine.

Then, factor in, that Hicks isn't actually all that good (career BB/9 over 5), and this trade is just ludicrously bad.

 

This is the kind of trade you make when you've been told that you're going to lose your job if you don't make the playoffs.

 

With all do respect, I think your valuation of Kloffenstein and Robberse is off.

 

Kloff won't provide any major league value, or I'd be shocked if he did.

 

Robberse I think will pitch in the majors but either as a #5 or a long reliever. He might give you some valuable innings over his career but nothing to lose sleep over. An easily replaceable arm.

 

I think Hicks gives this team precisely the swing and miss stuff they've been missing come playoff time.

 

I guess time will tell how this all plays out though.

[Daniel Labude]

This trade is f*cking terrible. We didn't need another bullpen guy. Bullpen is fine.

 

Giving up two potential starters, for a two-months rental guy is assinine.

Then, factor in, that Hicks isn't actually all that good (career BB/9 over 5), and this trade is just ludicrously bad.

 

This is the kind of trade you make when you've been told that you're going to lose your job if you don't make the playoffs.

 

Weird thing is, you could be correct, completely wrong, or both correct and wrong lmao....the losing the job without the playoffs could definitely be accurate i think

[Stangstag]

This trade is f*cking terrible. We didn't need another bullpen guy. Bullpen is fine.

 

Giving up two potential starters, for a two-months rental guy is assinine.

Then, factor in, that Hicks isn't actually all that good (career BB/9 over 5), and this trade is just ludicrously bad.

 

This is the kind of trade you make when you've been told that you're going to lose your job if you don't make the playoffs.

 

Did you even watch any games the past couple weeks? Plus we have an extremely important stretch this week vs Baltimore and Boston with Romano on the IL.

[MikeM3]

Can't develop SP prospects so might as well trade them.

[Masterbather]

This trade is f*cking terrible. We didn't need another bullpen guy. Bullpen is fine.

 

Giving up two potential starters, for a two-months rental guy is assinine.

Then, factor in, that Hicks isn't actually all that good (career BB/9 over 5), and this trade is just ludicrously bad.

 

This is the kind of trade you make when you've been told that you're going to lose your job if you don't make the playoffs.

The bullpen is not fine, we don't have enough elite pitchers in the bullpen. I would argue that we could still use another one. I grant you that Hicks has his warts, he does give up base runners. But he also has a lightning bolt for an arm and big strikeout and groundball stuff. You need guys with elite stuff in the playoffs.

[Eat My Shatkins]

lol our closer is hurt, the bullpen is not "fine" when your closer is injured

 

15 day IL, yeah...we all know how that can go. Hopefully he's back then but 15 day IL can turn into 60 day IL in the blink of an eye

 

And the two pitchers they traded away are lottery tickets FFS. These aren't even really top 10 prospects in the Jays system and the Jays system is middling at best compared to the rest of the MLB prospect pools. Big whoop. Neither guy has electric stuff, and neither guy is really ripping up AA. They're just 'OK' prospects.

 

Was a solid trade.

[mphenhef]

Name 1 prospect that AA traded that we regretted in 2015 lol.

 

In the end, seems like a good philosophy to try to capitalize on your windows while you can no matter the expense of your farm system. Let's go get a high end bat like Teo and keep pushing!!

 

Noah Syndergaard easily an answer here if we are counting all of the prospects he traded. The ones traded specifically in 2015, I'm not sure about.