Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Carlos Danger]

Hopefully Kirk tries to be serious about his health. If not he'll no doubt downward spiral like Pablo Sandoval.

 

I would like to think Kirk will end up a Prince Fielder type. Regardless, with both Prince and Panda, weight/health issues ended up derailing them. I would be very wary of any long term contracts with Kirk. Hence another reason to trade while the value is high.

[The Cats Ass]

Yeah Pablo Sandoval, the fat ass who put up 3.2 WAR in his Age 27 as a 3B. The same age we have Kirk controlled through.

 

And then he downward spiraled. His bat started declining after age 24. Think how much better he would have been if he was a little more fit. He would have been closer to his 5+ WAR seasons like age 22 and 24.

[glory]

Trading one to fill a need, even if the return is a worse player, is going to improve the team. The return just needs to be within the same vicinity as the Catcher we are shipping out IMO. Seeing as Jansen only has 2 years of control, he would be my choice to trade because it's only 2 years. Even if he hits 4 WAR each of the next two years it won't really sting us THAT bad with Kirk and Moreno around.

 

I generally agree with you about years of control being an important factor here, but not sure the team is going to get a comparable talent to Jansen in a trade. In 2022 had a 2.6 WAR in less than half a season of games/PA's (4 WAR and 124 wRC+ combined in 2021-22 in 453 PA). He has power, draws walks, doesn't strike out much, doesn't hurt you on the bases, and is only 27. Assuming Ross Atkins is aware that you can in fact sign a young player to a team friendly extension at some point, it seems like Jansen is a guy who fits that criteria in a normal circumstance. His injury history might make him easier to sign too. I can't see a scenario where another team gives up a 4+ WAR CF or SP for him. Even if you were bullish on someone like Alek Thomas turning into that sort of player, would the D-Backs move him for 2 years of Jansen? Probably not.

 

If they decide to move Jansen, then it would be a logical way to go (less control, older, injury history, etc), so I'd have no issues with that, but from a talent + return standpoint, I'd be afraid of what Atkins gets in return. Either way, if I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say it's 80/20 in favor of the Jays keeping all 3 and trying to make it work.

[Terminator]

I generally agree with you about years of control being an important factor here, but not sure the team is going to get a comparable talent to Jansen in a trade. In 2022 had a 2.6 WAR in less than half a season of games/PA's (4 WAR and 124 wRC+ combined in 2021-22 in 453 PA). He has power, draws walks, doesn't strike out much, doesn't hurt you on the bases, and is only 27. Assuming Ross Atkins is aware that you can in fact sign a young player to a team friendly extension at some point, it seems like Jansen is a guy who fits that criteria in a normal circumstance. His injury history might make him easier to sign too. I can't see a scenario where another team gives up a 4+ WAR CF or SP for him. Even if you were bullish on someone like Alek Thomas turning into that sort of player, would the D-Backs move him for 2 years of Jansen? Probably not.

 

If they decide to move Jansen, then it would be a logical way to go (less control, older, injury history, etc), so I'd have no issues with that, but from a talent + return standpoint, I'd be afraid of what Atkins gets in return. Either way, if I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say it's 80/20 in favor of the Jays keeping all 3 and trying to make it work.

 

Danny Jansen hasn't ever come close to putting up 4 WAR in a season (Kirk just did though and that's even with him getting heavily docked for playing 50 games at DH). I was just saying best case scenario was that IF Jansen did finally explode, would we really regret it if we only got a pitcher like Urquidy who puts up 5 WAR over 3 years in return? Particularly with Kirk and Moreno putting up similar production at Catcher at a lower cost? I doubt we'd be all that bothered by it. There's just not a ton of risk in trading Jansen to me.

 

I'm not saying give him away but if we get an 80% return on value for him and it fills a position of need it's going to improve the team with little downside.

[Olerud363]

Yeah Pablo Sandoval, the fat ass who put up 3.2 WAR in his Age 27 as a 3B. The same age we have Kirk controlled through.

 

Yeah... but Sandovol is kind of the example that makes them want to trade Kirk. Was 5 WAR at 22 and 24 but then got a bit worse in mid 20s. Didn't ever become a better hitter than he was at 22.

 

It's only one example. I want to see a list of the top 10 obese fat asses who started at 22, then a chart on how their average WAR progressed through age 22-29.

[Stangstag]

Danny Jansen hasn't ever come close to putting up 4 WAR in a season (Kirk just did though and that's even with him getting heavily docked for playing 50 games at DH). I was just saying best case scenario was that IF Jansen did finally explode, would we really regret it if we only got a pitcher like Urquidy who puts up 5 WAR over 3 years in return? Particularly with Kirk and Moreno putting up similar production at Catcher at a lower cost? I doubt we'd be all that bothered by it. There's just not a ton of risk in trading Jansen to me.

 

I'm not saying give him away but if we get an 80% return on value for him and it fills a position of need it's going to improve the team with little downside.

 

Well, if you just combine Jansen’s 2022 and 2021 that’s 140 games and 4 WAR. He is definitely capable of 4-5 WAR if he remains healthy. That’s a big if though. He has already shown he may be an injury-prone player and never play over 100 games.

 

If the front office is worried about his health going forward, you definitely trade him for Urquidy.

[Grant77]

Well, if you just combine Jansen’s 2022 and 2021 that’s 140 games and 4 WAR. He is definitely capable of 4-5 WAR if he remains healthy. That’s a big if though. He has already shown he may be an injury-prone player and never play over 100 games.

 

If the front office is worried about his health going forward, you definitely trade him for Urquidy.

 

I think Pablo Lopez is another guy you could look into, as the Marlins need a catcher just as badly. He has the same control and similar production to Jansen.

[Terminator]

I think Pablo Lopez is another guy you could look into, as the Marlins need a catcher just as badly. He has the same control and similar production to Jansen.

 

Yeah I could see the Marlins being interested in something like that. Their offense sucks and getting a C who can hit in the middle of the lineup will take some pressure off of having to find middle of the order bats for first and in the corner OF, something they've been struggling to do.

[Stangstag]

Yeah I could see the Marlins being interested in something like that. Their offense sucks and getting a C who can hit in the middle of the lineup will take some pressure off of having to find middle of the order bats for first and in the corner OF, something they've been struggling to do.

 

Send them Kirk instead, he speaks Spanish and would thrive in Miami

[G-Snarls]

Yeah I could see the Marlins being interested in something like that. Their offense sucks and getting a C who can hit in the middle of the lineup will take some pressure off of having to find middle of the order bats for first and in the corner OF, something they've been struggling to do.

 

It's crazy to think their OF was once:

 

Stanton

Ozuna

Yelich

[Carlos Danger]

Send them Kirk instead, he speaks Spanish and would thrive in Miami

 

Kirk is Mexican. He would have more appeal to a west coast or Texas team.

[Terminator]

Send them Kirk instead, he speaks Spanish and would thrive in Miami

 

???

[jaysblue]

It's crazy to think their OF was once:

 

Stanton

Ozuna

Yelich

 

How about Jeremy Hermida? Haha.

[Brownie19]

If you are only going to look at percentile rankings through a straw you should play fantasy baseball. It is not the way to build a better real life MLB team.

 

Your deflection of my comments and inability to comprehend more then a stat page, shows ignorance of the big picture.

 

The Blue Jays need run prevention as much or more then they need an improvement in offense.

 

Yur dumn. Imagine how many of Kirk's singles that Varsho would have stretched into 2? Ummm....that's not how it works.

[Carlos Danger]

Yur dumn. Imagine how many of Kirk's singles that Varsho would have stretched into 2? Ummm....that's not how it works.

 

If you want to be a stat nerd and refuse to look at the big picture of improving our Team, then we can look at Fantasy stats using the most sabremetric league on this board- LOD

 

In LOD- Varsho is worth 81.89 points Kirk is worth 73.04.

Varsho 79 runs scored to Kirks 59

Kirk 134 hits to Varsho's 125 hits

Kirk RCs (Runs created) 74.4 to Varsho's 69.1 RC

Varsho 74 RBIs vs Kirks 63 RBIs

Varsho 27 HR, Kirk 14 HR

Kirk .349 WOBA to Varsho's .319 WOBA

Varsho .443 SLG% to Kirk's .415 SLG%

Kirk 372 OBP to Varsho's 302 OBP

Varsho 16 SBs to Kirk's 0

 

On the offensive side Kirk beats Varsho by about 5 total runs in Runs created. Fantasy only takes into account offense. The offense is close enough between the two with Varsho actually being better in some categories, plus his plus D and positional versitality and at key positons, makes it a no brainer!

 

Put the straw down and look at the big picture!

Edited October 22, 2022 by Carlos Danger

[Laika]

If you want to be a stat nerd and refuse to look at the big pitcure of improving our Team, then we can look at Fantasy stats using the most sabremtric league on this board- LOD

 

In LOD- Varsho is worth 81.89 points Kirk is worth 73.04.

Varsho 79 runs scored to Kirks 59

Kirk 134 hits to Varsho's 125 hits

Kirk RCs (Runs created) 74.4 to Varsho's 69.1 RC

Varsho 74 RBIs vs Kirks 63 RBIs

Varsho 27 Hrs, Kirk 14 hrs

Kirk .349 WOBA to Varsho's .

Varsho .443 SLG% to Kirk's .415

Kirk 372 OBP to Varsho's 302 OBP

Varsho 16 SBs to Kirk's 0

 

On the offensive side Kirk beats Varsho by about 5 total runs in Runs created. Fantasy only takes into account offense. The offense is close enough between the two with Varsho actually being better in some categories, plus his plus D and positional versitality and at key positons, makes it a no brainer!

 

Put the straw down and look at the big picture!

 

Sir…

[Laika]

Batting, Baserunning, Fielding, Positional Adjustment

 

Kirk

17.5, -7.1, 8.6, 0.2

 

Varsho

4.3, 3.4, 18.6, -2.3

 

That's 2022 only. Career numbers show a huge disparity. Kirk 20 batting runs, Varsho zero... Kirk 6 fielding Varsho 24... Kirk -9 baserunning Varsho +8. Varsho has more career than playing time though so you can’t compare them this way without adjusting that

Edited October 22, 2022 by Laika

[Jimcanuck]

Jays farmhand is No. 1 on BA hot sheet. Some OF depth, might see him next season as an injury fill-in. Note that AFL pitching is typically weak, and more so this year.

 

 

1. Zach Britton, OF, Blue Jays

Team: Salt River

Age: 24

 

Why He’s Here: .692/.733/1.154 (9-for-13), 4 R, 1 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 6 RBIs, 2 BB, 0 SO

 

The Scoop: The Louisville alum has been on fire in the desert. Britton’s nine hits pushed him into the AFL lead in batting average and on-base percentage, with marks of .500 and .553. The 24-year-old didn’t hit for a high average during the regular season, which he split between High-A and Double-A, but he showed strong on-base skills, including a walk rate of 16.9% between the levels.

[Terminator]

Britton played more games at C this year than OF which should help his stock some.

[Brownie19]

Britton played more games at C this year than OF which should help his stock some.

 

Our very own Varsho? Amazing. #donttradeKirk4Varsho

[wilko]

Send them Kirk instead, he speaks Spanish and would thrive in Miami

 

Kirk's Cuban?

[Jimcanuck]

Kirk's Cuban?

 

Relevance? Not sure one can distinguish a Cuban from a Mexican.

[Terminator]

Relevance? Not sure one can distinguish a Cuban from a Mexican.

 

Wow Jim

[wilko]

Relevance? Not sure one can distinguish a Cuban from a Mexican.

 

Fat shaming and racist!

[Carlos Danger]

Relevance? Not sure one can distinguish a Cuban from a Mexican.

 

Typical of the average Gringo or Canuck to lump all Spanish speaking players together.

 

Miami and South Florida in general is full of Cubans, Colombians, Venezuelans, DR and others from South and central America. The border States Texas and West are primarily Mexicans and Central America. Even though they all speak Spanish, HUGE differences in the language and culture. Don't ever call a Colombian a Mexican or a Cuban a Mexican etc.

 

Latinos are people from South America which includes Brazil which the language is Portuguese and not Spanish, yet they are still Latinos.

 

The comment that Miami would want a player who is Mexican just because he speaks Spanish is like saying Toronto would want a player from Australia since they speak English and are part of the Commonwealth.

[BTS]

Toronto would want a player from Australia since they speak English and are part of the Commonwealth.

 

Australians are almost always cool. This checks out.

[Olerud363]

Typical of the average Gringo or Canuck to lump all Spanish speaking players together.

 

Miami and South Florida in general is full of Cubans, Colombians, Venezuelans, DR and others from South and central America. The border States Texas and West are primarily Mexicans and Central America. Even though they all speak Spanish, HUGE differences in the language and culture. Don't ever call a Colombian a Mexican or a Cuban a Mexican etc.

 

Latinos are people from South America which includes Brazil which the language is Portuguese and not Spanish, yet they are still Latinos.

 

The comment that Miami would want a player who is Mexican just because he speaks Spanish is like saying Toronto would want a player from Australia since they speak English and are part of the Commonwealth.

 

Is Liam Hendricks available and healthy ? Trade some dominicans or mexicans or something for him and have an all commonwealth shut down 8 and 9th.

[Terminator]

[wilko]

 

[BTS]

Imagine sharing something this stupid with the entire world.