Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Terminator]

Yea, but what is our objective. We can’t go to war with almost same same as last season and expect different results.

 

Each incremental improvement helps the overall improvement of the team. We shouldn’t just look at shiny stuff to help us improve, we should be aiming for sum total improvement.

 

Yeah I agree, he's probably one of the last guys in right now. Anymore additions and he's out. We could probably move him for a rookie ball lotto ticket.

[jaysblue]

Ok let's get things back on track here. Do we actually have TOO MANY good relievers? We can only carry 13 pitchers and 5 are starters. That leaves 8 relievers. The following are under contract for next year:

 

Locks:

Jordan Romano

Anthony Bass

Yimi Garcia

Adam Cimber

Tim Mayza

Trevor Richards

 

Has options but otherwise would be a lock:

Zach Pop

 

Out of options so likely to make it?:

Julian Merryweather

 

Starters who could move to the bullpen:

Yusei Kikuchi

Mitch White (out of options)

 

40 man guys with options

Trent Thornton (could be non-tendered, proj to make $1.1M in arb)

Nate Pearson

Taylor Saucedo

Thomas Hatch

Hagen Danner

Anthony Kay

Foster Griffin

Matt Gage

 

If you take the guys on the Locks list plus Zach Pop and Julian Merryweather that's 8 right there without including Mitch White. I guess we could option Pop and keep White and have Kikuchi as the #5, all of which is a possibility, but if we sign any relievers more additional moves will need to be made. I expect we'll see some trades this offseason involving relievers. I could see Richards being moved, for example.

 

I would even be open to trading some relievers if the team can make one or two upgrades to the pen. Just move everyone else down one spot on the depth chart.

 

Bring in another elite late inning arm or two with high K rates, who could be a bridge to Romano. That means you move guys like Bass, Garcia, Mayza, Cimber down for the 6th/7th innings.

 

I hope Pearson or Merryweather can have a breakout year out of the pen. Would definitely help!

[The Cats Ass]

lmao Trevor Richards is EXACTLY the type of guy who they would let walk and then he would turn into an Ace reliever somewhere else

 

watch it happen

 

And then this board will complain and ask why the Bluejays let him go.

[jaysblue]

After seeing Kikuchi put up Hader-like stats in the bullpen I think he should start the season there. Just put him in the bullpen from the get go, give up on him as a SP.

 

If the Jays add two starters this offseason, Kikuchi probably would be better utilized out of the pen instead of starting in Buffalo.

[Carlos Danger]

lmao Trevor Richards is EXACTLY the type of guy who they would let walk and then he would turn into an Ace reliever somewhere else

 

watch it happen

 

Didn’t you give advice exactly counter to this in a Fantasy post (which I agree with by the way). You said something along the lines of you used to hang on to fringe players too long and as you gained more experience you learned to cut bait with them quicker and move on.

 

I think great advice for real baseball and Fantasy. There will be the odd Bautista or Chris Carpenter etc, but 90% are just what they are or never live up to projections/potential.

[jaysblue]

And then this board will complain and ask why the Bluejays let him go.

 

Richards becomes the next Liam Hendriks.

[The Cats Ass]

If the Jays add two starters this offseason, Kikuchi probably would be better utilized out of the pen instead of starting in Buffalo.

 

Andrew Miller pops in my mind.

[wilko]

Richards becomes the next Liam Hendriks.

 

His K's did go up quite a bit this year.

[L54]

Yeah it's easy to say we'll see some movement in the pen or that we need to add some guys and just drop everyone down a peg but there are 40 man roster considerations that will play heavy factor which was the point of my original post. If we add a 1B to Romano (that's a pretty damn good reliever) then we have to kick Merryweather or Richards to the curb for basically nothing. That's not a huge deal I guess but that's with Pop (who is pretty damn good in his own right) already being optioned.

 

Further adding to the logjam is what we'll do with White and Kikuchi. I assume White, who is out of options, will be the long man in the pen but I wouldn't mind seeing what Kikuchi could do in the pen as well. His numbers as a reliever were electric and you can survive in the pen with a BB/9 around 5. As a starter that is much more difficult. But if he's in the pen then that's another one of the 8 bullpen spots being taken.

 

You either make room to accommodate an increase in talent or stick with the status quo. The baseline of the pen is fine but adding below Romano and above Bass would offer a big boost. If that means losing Merryweather or Richards then so be it.

[wilko]

You either make room to accommodate an increase in talent or stick with the status quo. The baseline of the pen is fine but adding below Romano and above Bass would offer a big boost. If that means losing Merryweather or Richards then so be it.

 

Give Mayza the boot too.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I wonder what kind of coin Taylor Rogers is going to make. I'd like to see him brought in to be the 8th inning lock down lefty.

[L54]

Give Mayza the boot too.

 

Tim feels completely replaceable as well

 

9% swst% woof

[jaysblue]

Tim feels completely replaceable as well

 

9% swst% woof

 

Replacing Mayza (who wasn't that good this season to begin with) with someone like Matt Moore would be a nice upgrade.

[L54]

I wonder what kind of coin Taylor Rogers is going to make. I'd like to see him brought in to be the 8th inning lock down lefty.

 

There’s your high leverage lefty and Mayza is no longer necessary

 

Two birds stoned at once

[L54]

Replacing Mayza (who wasn't that good this season to begin with) with someone like Matt Moore would be a nice upgrade.

 

Ya he would work too

[jaysblue]

I wonder what kind of coin Taylor Rogers is going to make. I'd like to see him brought in to be the 8th inning lock down lefty.

 

Taylor Rogers would be a really nice addition. Bring his brother Tyler as well haha. Having the Rogers twins would be awesome. Great marketing!

[Laika]

Didn’t you give advice exactly counter to this in a Fantasy post (which I agree with by the way). You said something along the lines of you used to hang on to fringe players too long and as you gained more experience you learned to cut bait with them quicker and move on.

 

I think great advice for real baseball and Fantasy. There will be the odd Bautista or Chris Carpenter etc, but 90% are just what they are or never live up to projections/potential.

 

Oh I'm not saying they should necessarily hang onto him.

 

But over the last few seasons Toronto has not done great on these cut/keep decisions in the pen. They let Brian Baker and Jason Adam go.

 

Like if Richards was a fringe RP on some other team he would look like a smart trade target haha

[Terminator]

Mayza is solid. It's not his fault Schneider is a dumb ass. We could probably use a lefty better than him but he deserves to be in the pen. He also has options though so he could be the lefty Zach Pop as well.

[wamco]

It’s easy to say “let’s improve the outfield, the sp and get a few late inning rp,” but how much money will there to do so?

 

Over/under 15m to spend or 20 if you cut Tapia??

 

Id be pumped if it were more than that but that is what I’m prepared for.

[Stangstag]

I wonder what kind of coin Taylor Rogers is going to make. I'd like to see him brought in to be the 8th inning lock down lefty.

 

Hell no

[Terminator]

It’s easy to say “let’s improve the outfield, the sp and get a few late inning rp,” but how much money will there to do so?

 

Over/under 15m to spend or 20 if you cut Tapia??

 

Id be pumped if it were more than that but that is what I’m prepared for.

 

Based on the things I've been reading from insiders like Shi Davidi and Nicholson-Smith it's right around that 15-20M range. I think the biggest signing will be a 2 or 3 year deal on a solid starting pitcher.

[wilko]

mayza is solid. It's not his fault schneider is a dumb ass. We could probably use a lefty better than him but he deserves to be in the pen. He also has options though so he could be the lefty zach pop as well.

 

loogy

[wamco]

Based on the things I've been reading from insiders like Shi Davidi and Nicholson-Smith it's right around that 15-20M range. I think the biggest signing will be a 2 or 3 year deal on a solid starting pitcher.

 

I feel like SP5 is spoken for between Kikuchi and white so I don’t think 2 will be brought in. Hopefully someone of higher quality than the stripling, Quintana, Heaney, Tijuan Walker variety. Even they would take up A majority of 15-20m to spend though.

 

I also don’t see a catcher traded for a bullpen arm. So maybe trade a catcher for a sp and sign 2 bullpen arms. Punt Richards (even though I like him but he doesn’t have options) and start pop in AAA.

 

Doesn’t feel like a big enough off-season tho does it?

[Terminator]

I don't think we need to do anything that big.

 

-I think my Jansen to the Astros for Urquidy and a near elite RP is a good trade. Astros might make out on the WAR side of it but with capable replacements for Jansen's 2 years of control we get a lot better as well.

-Then sign the best SP we can which will fit into the budget, could be anyone from Chris Bassitt on the high end to Kyle Gibson on the low end depending on FA prices. Kikuchi and White both prepare to be SPs entering ST but if all goes according to plan they move to the bullpen to start.

-Then trade Richards, Biggio, anyone with 40 man concerns to try and grab that 4th OF.

-Also approach Vlad and Bo on extensions. I think it's a good year to do this with Vlad especially.

 

Then we can see how things are at the deadline. If we want to add a frontline starter or elite reliever we can look into it then.

[jaysblue]

I don't think we need to do anything that big.

 

-I think my Jansen to the Astros for Urquidy and a near elite RP is a good trade. Astros might make out on the WAR side of it but with capable replacements for Jansen's 2 years of control we get a lot better as well.

-Then sign the best SP we can which will fit into the budget, could be anyone from Chris Bassitt on the high end to Kyle Gibson on the low end depending on FA prices. Kikuchi and White both prepare to be SPs entering ST but if all goes according to plan they move to the bullpen to start.

-Then trade Richards, Biggio, anyone with 40 man concerns to try and grab that 4th OF.

-Also approach Vlad and Bo on extensions. I think it's a good year to do this with Vlad especially.

 

Then we can see how things are at the deadline. If we want to add a frontline starter or elite reliever we can look into it then.

 

Urquidy and Abreu would be nice.

[jaysblue]

Mayza is solid. It's not his fault Schneider is a dumb ass. We could probably use a lefty better than him but he deserves to be in the pen. He also has options though so he could be the lefty Zach Pop as well.

 

Mayza as a second lefty down in the pen is fine, though I don't want him pitching in critical situations next season. Jays need a Brett Cecil type lefty down there.

[Brownie19]

Hell no

 

I'm confused.

[Stangstag]

I'm confused.

 

Can’t find the vid now, but there was a compilation of all the blown saves/toughest losses the Brewers had leading up to the final week of the season and Rogers was responsible for like half of them lol. He’s a big part of why the Brewers missed the postseason.

[Stangstag]

Also Mayza is fine as a Loogy

[Brownie19]

Can’t find the vid now, but there was a compilation of all the blown saves/toughest losses the Brewers had leading up to the final week of the season and Rogers was responsible for like half of them lol. He’s a big part of why the Brewers missed the postseason.

 

That's a very small sample size, while all the underlying stats suggest there's a lot of bad luck involved (14+ K/9, 3.09 xFIP). If that run of blow saves happened in May, you wouldn't be mentioning it. Rogers has been one of the better and most consistent relievers in baseball over the past 5 years.