Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Terminator]

Hunter Brown has pitched in the bullpen and has looked clean! Get him!

 

He was another guy I was looking at when I made that trade.

[Terminator]

The other trade partner I could see is maybe the Pirates for Reynolds but it wouldn't be Jansen they'd want. They'd want Kirk or Moreno PLUS and I'm not sure I like that. They also have Bednar but I think they'll want too much for him. They also have some backend starters but their rotation is thin as is, I don't see them moving any of them.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Reynolds and Bednar would be perfect additions to the Jays roster. Lots of control too, so they would cost a lot to acquire.

[Terminator]

I just listened to At The Letters. Ben Nicholson-Smith was joined by Shi Davidi and they gave the following tidbits:

 

-They are about 90% sure that Schneider will be manager

-They don't think they’ll give Stripling the QO

-If Stripling goes, Shi thinks they’ll sign a #4 and then also bring in another guy to compete with Kikuchi and White for #5

-When discussing the #4 SP, they say they could potentially go 3 years on a multi-year deal probably around Kikuchi money (Chris Bassitt's name is thrown in toward the end)

-Both agree that trading a catcher is the Jays best chip to upgrade the OF/SP but there is no guarantee that one is traded

-Ohtani is extremely unlikely via trade and they guess that he doesn't even move at all

[Stangstag]

Reynolds and Bednar would be perfect additions to the Jays roster. Lots of control too, so they would cost a lot to acquire.

 

Reynolds + Bednar for Moreno + Tiedeman

 

Probably a realistic trade. Idk if Atkins does that

[Jimcanuck]

Hunter Brown is a top 5 SP prospect. Getting him is a pipedream

[Terminator]

Reynolds and Bednar would be perfect additions to the Jays roster. Lots of control too, so they would cost a lot to acquire.

 

Yeah the Pirates would want Moreno, Teidemann plus other stuff I bet. Wouldn't be worth it IMO.

[Jimcanuck]

Reynolds + Bednar for Moreno + Tiedeman

 

Probably a realistic trade. Idk if Atkins does that

 

he should be immediately fired if he does

[Terminator]

Hunter Brown is a top 5 SP prospect. Getting him is a pipedream

 

I didn't realize he was that good. My knowledge on non-Jays prospects isn't great.

[Terminator]

Jansen would be a beast in the Astros ballpark with that short left field. Yeesh.

[Captain_Obvious]

Abreu is great, but I'd like to see us get something more than a stud bullpen arm (because bullpen arms are so volatile) and a #5 starter for one of our stud catchers. Urquidy doesn't move the needle and Meyers isn't much better than Zimmer to be honest (yes that sounds crazy). Just sign Jake Marisnick instead of trading for Meyers.

 

If that's all that Jansen is worth, then I'd rather see what we could get for Kirk or Moreno.

 

This is exactly the point. Because the Blue Jays managers or FO f***ed up last year, Jansen might be considered as bottom-of-the-line-up part-time catcher. In reality, he might be the best player on the team if given a full-time role. Last year, his 10% BB and 17% K rates were very impressive. He has some of the highest barrel rates in baseball. His expected wOBA is 14th in MLB.

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/expected_statistics?type=batter&year=2022&position=&team=&min=150

 

He is also a decent defensive catcher and an average base runner (not just for a catcher). Because if his relatively low PAs in the past couple of years, he is potentially a buy-low candidate for other teams.

[Spanky99]

So....

 

Teoscar has minimal trade value, so don't trade him.

Gurriel is worse than Teo, so don't trade him cause he has even less value than Teo.

Jansen is good so don't trade him.

Upgrade CF so you can upgrade RF/LF by "removing Gurriel" (move him to the grounds crew cause he has no trade value).

 

lol

[Captain_Obvious]

Trading Teo et al for pitching will improve the team.

Dumping Gurriel for meh prospects will not improve the the team. $5m is pocket change.

Trading argueable our best young hitter (Kirk) will not improve the the team short term and long term.

 

Upon consideration your ideas are dumn.

 

No you dumn.

 

Please provide a realistic suggestion for SPs you'd get for Teo and how they will improve the team. Otherwise, you dumn.

 

Gurriel is barely above replacement level at this point. He is a bench player costing 5M. Otto Lopez will provide the same value. Saving 5M helps the team.

 

Here is how trading Kirk helps the team long-term and short-term. Realistic trade: Kirk for Varsho.

 

Before:

C: Kirk + Jansen = 7 WAR

CF: Springer = 3 WAR

RF: Teo = 2 WAR

LF: Gurriel = 1 WAR

Total = 13 WAR

 

After:

C: Jansen + Moreno = 7 WAR

CF: Varsho = 4.5 WAR

RF: Springer = 3 WAR

LF: Teo = 2 WAR

Total: 16.5 WAR

 

16.5 WAR > 13 WAR

 

Stop being dumn.

[John_Havok]

Trading one of the best hitting catchers in baseball for Varsho?

 

Jesus,if that’s all they got for Kirk I’d be severely pissed.

[Laika]

Trading one of the best hitting catchers in baseball for Varsho?

 

Jesus,if that’s all they got for Kirk I’d be severely pissed.

 

I dunno, Varsho is good

[Captain_Obvious]

Trading one of the best hitting catchers in baseball for Varsho?

 

Jesus,if that’s all they got for Kirk I’d be severely pissed.

 

Varsho produced 4.6 fWAR and 4.9 bWAR in 2022. He has been producing as a 4+ WAR player for the past two years, and has very good defensive numbers in all OF positions, including CF.

Kirk produced 3.8 fWAR and 3.9 bWAR in 2022. He has age on his side, but his athleticism leaves a lot to be desired.

 

I would love to get more for Kirk, but it is pretty fair overall objectively (if not tilting towards Blue Jays). Both controlled until 2026 season.

 

Going for Kirk:

- Superior hitting and contact.

- Superior plate discipline.

 

Going for Varsho:

- Superior power.

- Better defensively in CF than Kirk is in C.

- Superior base runner

- More value produced in last two years.

 

Arizona might actually want more.

[Carlos Danger]

Trading one of the best hitting catchers in baseball for Varsho?

 

Jesus,if that’s all they got for Kirk I’d be severely pissed.

 

Varsho makes the Blue Jays better then just Kirk does. Plus CF/OF catcher, good hitter can SB, take the extra base on a single or sac fly, still young. Team Varsho here baby!

[Stangstag]

Varsho makes the Blue Jays better then just Kirk does. Plus CF/OF catcher, good hitter can SB, take the extra base on a single or sac fly, still young. Team Varsho here baby!

 

This. Kirk is not a great fit on our roster with so many DH types already

[Terminator]

I don't see the D-Bags doing that trade. Varsho can play C as is, so no real point in moving him for a similarly talented C. Varsho just happens to be so damn good in CF that they are going to move him there mostly full time. I'm not even sure how much interest they'd have in Kirk. Between Varsho and Carson Kelly they aren't exactly in dire straights at the position and it's not like they have excess pitching to move.

[Spanky99]

I don't see the D-Bags doing that trade. Varsho can play C as is, so no real point in moving him for a similarly talented C. Varsho just happens to be so damn good in CF that they are going to move him there mostly full time. I'm not even sure how much interest they'd have in Kirk. Between Varsho and Kelly they aren't exactly in dire straights at the position and it's not like they have excess pitching to move.

 

Agreed, they're not a fit. Well, unless we talk about Gallen.

[Terminator]

This. Kirk is not a great fit on our roster with so many DH types already

 

Lol He's an excellent fit for a team with excess Catching talent because his bat is so good he can also DH and bat cleanup for us. That's a feature he provides us, it isn't a bug.

 

And you talk about Kirk like he should primarily DH but he probably prevents more runs for us than the other two Catchers because of his elite pitch framing.

[Terminator]

If we don't find a trade could we keep all 3? What would that look like? Service time manipulation on Moreno to get an extra year? And then trying him out at LF/2B/3B and using him in case of injury?

[Laika]

I don't see the D-Bags doing that trade. Varsho can play C as is, so no real point in moving him for a similarly talented C. Varsho just happens to be so damn good in CF that they are going to move him there mostly full time. I'm not even sure how much interest they'd have in Kirk. Between Varsho and Carson Kelly they aren't exactly in dire straights at the position and it's not like they have excess pitching to move.

 

The amount of young pitching they have coming through is kind of nuts.

 

Ryne Nelson

Drey Jameson

Brandon Pfaadt

Blake Walston

Slade Cecconi

Tommy Henry

Matt Tabor

Bryce Jarvis

 

I swear they will get one front end starter and multiple solid MLB SPs out of that collection. They have pitching to spare I think.

 

And they have SP1 and SP3 already locked in for a couple of years. And SP5 I guess if you want to be nice to Bumgarner...

 

Gallen - 3 years control

Kelly - 2 years control

[Stangstag]

If we don't find a trade could we keep all 3? What would that look like? Service time manipulation on Moreno to get an extra year? And then trying him out at LF/2B/3B and using him in case of injury?

 

I think if they keep all 3 they need to strongly consider turning Moreno into an infielder again. He can play some 2B and then take over 3B when Chapman leaves

[Terminator]

I think if they keep all 3 they need to strongly consider turning Moreno into an infielder again. He can play some 2B and then take over 3B when Chapman leaves

 

I hear ya but that just seems like such a waste. C is higher on the defensive spectrum and by all accounts he's great there.

[Laika]

I hear ya but that just seems like such a waste. C is higher on the defensive spectrum and by all accounts he's great there.

 

It might not be that high on the spectrum once the strike zone is automated.

 

The era of the stone handed catcher

[Spanky99]

I hear ya but that just seems like such a waste. C is higher on the defensive spectrum and by all accounts he's great there.

 

His pop times footwork and arm are all amazing, should come into play "Bigly" next year, with the bigger bases and limited throws over to first to keep a good runner honest.

[Omar]

Before:

C: Kirk + Jansen = 7 WAR

CF: Springer = 3 WAR

RF: Teo = 2 WAR

LF: Gurriel = 1 WAR

Total = 13 WAR

 

After:

C: Jansen + Moreno = 7 WAR

CF: Varsho = 4.5 WAR

RF: Springer = 3 WAR

LF: Teo = 2 WAR

Total: 16.5 WAR

 

16.5 WAR > 13 WAR

 

Stop being dumn.

 

Jansen + Moreno = 7 WAR

 

Dumn.

[Captain_Obvious]

Jansen + Moreno = 7 WAR

 

Dumn.

 

Easily. Jansen > Kirk.

[Omar]

Easily. Jansen > Kirk.

 

Good luck with Jansen producing 5 war, cause Moreno aint gonna cut it.

 

edit: don't forget Jansen is brittle. When was the last time he had a healthy season? Never?