Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Terminator]

 

This is the ideal catcher's body. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

[Jonn]

If the Mariners get Acuna, holy s*** that team.

 

They would have to blow up their roster to make that move lol. Braves aren’t trading Acuna for prospects not like the prospects to make that deal to begin with

[Jonn]

 

This is the ideal catcher's body. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

 

It’s actually wild to me that he could be this out of shape for someone who has to leave their place everyday. He must eat 6k calories when he gets home.

[Terminator]

It’s actually wild to me that he could be this out of shape for someone who has to leave their place everyday. He must eat 6k calories when he gets home.

 

I think he's lost some weight since then. Definitely still fat but this was a little bit out of control.

[keggy]

Huh? You think the framing issues drag his defense so far down that his career 104 wRC+ bat + defense would put him in the HOF? I don't buy it. Career WAR is 15.7 as he enters his age 33 season. Framing hasn't cut like 20-25 WAR off his career numbers has it?

 

Other than framing Sal Perez is considered an elite defensive catcher and above league average hitter while playing an obscene number of games by modern standards. All of his negative value comes from framing.

 

Basically with good framing he's Yadier Molina.

 

Really big catchers in general are known to have trouble behind the plate. Matt Wieters was another guy who had a horrible time with framing the low pitch despite being a pretty good athlete.

[keggy]

It’s actually wild to me that he could be this out of shape for someone who has to leave their place everyday. He must eat 6k calories when he gets home.

 

Honestly this is why I'm optimistic that Kirk can lose more weight. Any professional baseball player is burning way more calories than the average internet forum poster. This guy must have literally known nothing about basic nutrition to get this big. Also if he wasn't financially well off in the minors he was probably getting his calories from cheap garbage food.

 

Any competent nutritionist could improve this guy's diet in an offseason.

[John_Havok]

Honestly this is why I'm optimistic that Kirk can lose more weight. Any professional baseball player is burning way more calories than the average internet forum poster. This guy must have literally known nothing about basic nutrition to get this big. Also if he wasn't financially well off in the minors he was probably getting his calories from cheap garbage food.

 

Any competent nutritionist could improve this guy's diet in an offseason.

 

You’re forgetting that the player has to be willing as well. Vlad should have been able to get in near perfect shape after 2 off seasons, but he hasn’t. Losing weight is honestly not that hard once a person figures out what works for them. But they have to want to

[Stangstag]

You’re forgetting that the player has to be willing as well. Vlad should have been able to get in near perfect shape after 2 off seasons, but he hasn’t. Losing weight is honestly not that hard once a person figures out what works for them. But they have to want to

 

They need to talk to Schwarber and Sabbathia. Sab is a f***ing unit these days

[AMS528]

Huh? You think the framing issues drag his defense so far down that his career 104 wRC+ bat + defense would put him in the HOF? I don't buy it. Career WAR is 15.7 as he enters his age 33 season. Framing hasn't cut like 20-25 WAR off his career numbers has it?

 

Wait what the hell. Am I on the wrong page or is Salvador Perez's bWAR 32 and his fWAR 15?

 

That is a crazy large difference. You're basically describing two entirely different careers at that point.

[Terminator]

[Terminator]

Heaney would interest me greatly if he signs for 1 year 12 mil, or 2 years 20 mil like Fangraphs thinks. Signing him for 3 years, 42 mil like TradeRumors thinks is kind of scary.

[jaysblue]

Heaney would interest me greatly if he signs for 1 year 12 mil, or 2 years 20 mil like Fangraphs thinks. Signing him for 3 years, 42 mil like TradeRumors thinks is kind of scary.

 

All for this.

 

Heaney reminds me a lot like the Jays going after Happ during the 2015/2016 offseason.

[Brownie19]

Other than framing Sal Perez is considered an elite defensive catcher and above league average hitter while playing an obscene number of games by modern standards. All of his negative value comes from framing.

 

Basically with good framing he's Yadier Molina.

 

Really big catchers in general are known to have trouble behind the plate. Matt Wieters was another guy who had a horrible time with framing the low pitch despite being a pretty good athlete.

 

So you do think his framing is worth 20-25 WAR. Turns out framing is part of the game and he sucks at it. He's grossly overrated. Also - Molina threw out 5% more runners, even when you factor in decline in his later years. Sal isn't Molina defensively if you remove framing.

[Ehjays]

Morosi has this earlier, Jays analysis starts halfway through, mostly catching, but an interesting Bo/Acuna + FA SS segment. Bo and Acuna have identical 94.1 median values on BTV. 1 for 1 trade then sign Correa/Turner, trade a catcher for a top end starter, sign a good pen arm and win 158 games next year

 

 

This just keeps coming up:

 

[Solaxys]

I wouldn't mind Acuna for Bo considering we have a lot more infield prospects + espinal than OF ones but the chance Bo gets moved is very slim.

 

And no way in hell do we have the capital to commit to Correa

[Laika]

Bichette - 3 years of control - probably goes 6M, 11M, 18M in arbitration while providing 12-15 WAR (96M to 120M in value vs. 35M in cost = $69M to $85M surplus)

 

Acuna - 6 years of control - 17M AAV (102M) - say he averages 4 WAR per year (192M in value vs 102M in cost = $90M surplus)

 

Acuna is worth more because year six is a clean team option (not an obligation) and years of control on an elite player are just worth something innately because of the upside.

 

However, you can argue that Acuna is riskier because of his injury history. I guess there is an argument to them being pretty close in value.

 

I think it's a no-brainer for Toronto given the roster construction right now.... and I'd add something to get it done...

 

... probably only something Atlanta wants to do if they think Grissom is not a shortstop at all.

[keggy]

You’re forgetting that the player has to be willing as well. Vlad should have been able to get in near perfect shape after 2 off seasons, but he hasn’t. Losing weight is honestly not that hard once a person figures out what works for them. But they have to want to

 

I have a much better feeling about Kirk than Guerrero. Vlad is basically a rich kid who has been touted since he was 15. He's shown some signs of laziness and immaturity early on in his career.

 

Kirk signed for pocket change out of the bush leagues and barely spent any time in the minors. He's built like he used to get his nutrients from rainbow skittles. He certainly hasn't shown up to camp even more disgusting like Vlad did in 2020.

 

I'm optimistic about Kirk.

[Stangstag]

This just keeps coming up:

 

 

That’s the most info we’ve actually gotten on this Braves/Jays thing so far. Interesting to see

[InsideThePark]

Why would Jays ownership push back? Because Atkins told them he needs money to sign someone to replace Bo if he's doing it? I don't see ownership having issue with only the Acuna/Bo part, it's only like 10 million more this year and cheaper long term. Bo is one of the faces of this franchise, but Acuna will become that very quickly too if not instantly

[Eat My Shatkins]

Sign Correa and trade Bo for Acuna?

 

Yes please lol

 

Imagine upgrading SS like that, massively upgrading the OF like that, and then having Vladdy and Berrios bouncing back a couple fWAR each?

 

100+ win team probably

[Jonn]

Sign Correa and trade Bo for Acuna?

 

Yes please lol

 

Imagine upgrading SS like that, massively upgrading the OF like that, and then having Vladdy and Berrios bouncing back a couple fWAR each?

 

100+ win team probably

 

I don’t even think that trade goes through on MLB The Show let alone in real life.

 

I’m down for going after Correa though. Bo would probably be willing to move to 2B for a player like that.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I don’t even think that trade goes through on MLB The Show let alone in real life.

 

I’m down for going after Correa though. Bo would probably be willing to move to 2B for a player like that.

 

Well the rumor was Bo plus prospects for Acuna I think wasn't it?

 

EDIT:

 

MLB trade value simulator has Bichette and Acuna both at exactly 94.1 median value.

[Jonn]

Well the rumor was Bo plus prospects for Acuna I think wasn't it?

 

EDIT:

 

MLB trade value simulator has Bichette and Acuna both at exactly 94.1 median value.

 

Acuna had a down season but he was coming off an injury. I don’t think many would value them the same.

[Stangstag]

Acuna had a down season but he was coming off an injury. I don’t think many would value them the same.

 

Next year will be extremely important in establishing Acuna’s value. If he has another “bad” year, the contract doesn’t look so hot anymore. Maybe the knee is completely f***ed.

 

Will be interesting to see if he ever gets back to 2020/2021 numbers

[Spanky99]

Remember when a past forum BJMB poster, claimed the huge ramifications about catcher framing data, and posted it in an article to be eventually laughed at and mocked because of his findings? Fangraphs and the general audience and pundits agreed a few years later, good times.

[Dagagad]

The contracts handed out to relievers so far have been so insane; i’d almost rather we stay out of that market.

[wamco]

Remember when a past forum BJMB poster, claimed the huge ramifications about catcher framing data, and posted it in an article to be eventually laughed at and mocked because of his findings? Fangraphs and the general audience and pundits agreed a few years later, good times.

 

No?

[LGBJ29]

This just keeps coming up:

 

 

this isn't a credible account it is a troll.

[glory]

Hernandez has been traded to the Mariners.

 

Please don't let it be for Flexen!

 

[Laika]

If it's for Chris Flexen alone I will kill somebody