Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Daniel Labude]

Here's the FA list for SS and 3b in this offseason. I include the SS because you never know who might be willing to move to 3rd. Still, beyond the obvious top top tier guys, it's not a very good place to shop.

 

Shortstops

 

Javier Baez (29)

Carlos Correa (27)

Freddy Galvis (32)

Greg Garcia (32)

Leury Garcia (31)

Jose Iglesias (32)

Corey Seager (28)

Marcus Semien (31)

Andrelton Simmons (32)

Trevor Story (29)

Chris Taylor (31)

Jonathan Villar (31)

 

Third Basemen

 

Ehire Adrianza (32)

Nolan Arenado (31) — can opt out of remaining five years, $164MM (probably won't)

Kris Bryant (30)

Asdrubal Cabrera (36)

Matt Carpenter (36) — $18.5MM vesting option ($2MM buyout) - i dont know if it vested or not

Eduardo Escobar (33)

Maikel Franco (29)

Todd Frazier (36)

Marwin Gonzalez (33)

Josh Harrison (34)

Brock Holt (34)

Jake Lamb (31)

Brad Miller (32)

Jose Ramirez (29) — $11MM club option ($2MM buyout) - 0% chance this isn't picked up

Kyle Seager (34) — $15MM club option (buyout size dependent on stats in 2020-21)

Travis Shaw (32)

Eric Sogard (36)

Yoshitomo Tsutsugo (30)

 

Spend the money on a 1 year deal with Story. Give him the rebuild his value year Semien had. Im sure he would take the chance in our lineup and at 3B or 2B

[Eat My Shatkins]

Spend the money on a 1 year deal with Story. Give him the rebuild his value year Semien had. Im sure he would take the chance in our lineup and at 3B or 2B

 

Honestly wouldn't shock me to see the Jays try to do just this.

 

Instead of bringing back Ray and Semien for huge money and term, they maybe go out and try to find the next Ray and Semien and sign them to 1 year show me deals.

 

Story and Syndergaard for example.

[Cbert]

Do we really want to tie up 75 million a year for the next 5 years on 3 guys over the age of 30? (Springer, Ray, Semien)

 

And that’s not including Ryu and his 20 million for the next 2 seasons.

 

95 million on Ray, Ryu, Semien, Springer.

 

Idk about that.

 

I do agree with you about avoiding committing that much money to older guys. I’ve told friends that Ray should be priority since the Jays don’t seem to have the same high end pitching prospects as they do infield prospects. I’d only go in on both guys if Rogers were willing to go up to and maybe even over the luxury tax for a couple of years to build a monster team. Never gonna happen though

[John_Havok]

Is there a reason I can't think of why Scherzer and the Dodgers won't just stay married to each other?

 

Have to think Bauer is toast, and Kershaw is a free agent too.

 

I think the biggest thing that will make this offseason the most painful in recent memory is the CBA negotiations. Teams will be very hesitant to start signing bigger name players when they don't know what the luxury tax or potential salary floor is going to look like.

 

We could be in for the looooooooooooooooooooooong offseason with regards to signing of FAs.

[InsideThePark]

Biggio is a fine starter. Espinal looks like he might be a fine starter too. But I don't think you want both in the same everyday lineup trying to win a world series. Ideally they can split based on who is playing better or a platoon(thought Cavan's splits are fairly equal against both L and R) and you can bring in a better starting option who plays everyday who has some flexibility as to playing both 2nd and 3rd. He plays 2nd when Espinal is hot and playing, and he plays 3rd when Biggio is hot and in the lineup. Being able to play 3rd and SS, and Bo plays some 2nd or 3rd is fine as well.

[max silver]

Especially if said potential black hole is replacing top 3 MVP Semien

 

Semien is saying all the right things in that he's open to returning to the Jays next season. That would lead me to believe that he's not dead set on returning to short stop. It was obvious how much he means to the team and Bo in particular. Remaining a key part of the best offensive middle infield combination in the sport would have to hold a lot of appeal.

[Ryu In My House]

Spend the money on a 1 year deal with Story. Give him the rebuild his value year Semien had. Im sure he would take the chance in our lineup and at 3B or 2B

 

This was exactly what I was thinking, and really fits the Jays' MO. Would be a decent consolation prize if Semien moves on.

[saskjayfan]

Is there a reason I can't think of why Scherzer and the Dodgers won't just stay married to each other?

 

Have to think Bauer is toast, and Kershaw is a free agent too.

 

I too would be shocked if he doesn't stay with the dodgers. Let's just roll the dice and sign Verlander. 1 year 16 mil.

[Abomination]

I think the biggest thing that will make this offseason the most painful in recent memory is the CBA negotiations. Teams will be very hesitant to start signing bigger name players when they don't know what the luxury tax or potential salary floor is going to look like.

 

We could be in for the looooooooooooooooooooooong offseason with regards to signing of FAs.

 

I still think there's going to be a strike. The two sides absolutely HATE each other.

[John_Havok]

I still think there's going to be a strike. The two sides absolutely HATE each other.

 

I think the hate gets thrown around alot in the media and it's not that bad, but both sides have to present their sides as being unyielding and demanding and try to paint the other side as evil due to optics and making sure each represented party feels like they are actually fighting rather than just negotiating over cocktails.

 

I hope there's no lockout. Already losing the opportunity to watch Vlad and Bo etc over the past 2 partial seasons has been torturous and losing out on more of that while their service time clicks away is a piss off.

[Ehjays]

Semien is saying all the right things in that he's open to returning to the Jays next season. That would lead me to believe that he's not dead set on returning to short stop. It was obvious how much he means to the team and Bo in particular. Remaining a key part of the best offensive middle infield combination in the sport would have to hold a lot of appeal.

 

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2200778?fbclid=IwAR13dS524DkCRfb5dKQuXnI7a4ZuQQamF3i7Rjkgfquczxn845sRhEijEEY

 

Semien, who set an MLB single-season record for homers (45) by a second baseman, had nothing but positive things to say about his campaign with the Blue Jays.

 

"We had the best offense in the major leagues and in my mind, the best starting pitching in the game. How could you not want to be a part of that?" Semien said postgame.

 

"Obviously, when you have those things set in stone, there are little pieces to add to get to the next level. I'm one of them. I think our bullpen is another one. We also have young guys getting better, so let's see what happens. But I had a great time here. I love the facility and everything that they offered for me to do what I need to do to get ready for a game. And that's all I can ask for sure."

 

Meanwhile, Ray, who's one of the favorites to win AL Cy Young, wasn't as open as Semien on how he feels about a return to the club.

 

"It's definitely an option. I'm sure we'll be in touch," the left-hander said, according to Nicholson-Smith.

[Omar]

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2200778?fbclid=IwAR13dS524DkCRfb5dKQuXnI7a4ZuQQamF3i7Rjkgfquczxn845sRhEijEEY

 

Semien, who set an MLB single-season record for homers (45) by a second baseman, had nothing but positive things to say about his campaign with the Blue Jays.

 

"We had the best offense in the major leagues and in my mind, the best starting pitching in the game. How could you not want to be a part of that?" Semien said postgame.

 

"Obviously, when you have those things set in stone, there are little pieces to add to get to the next level. I'm one of them. I think our bullpen is another one. We also have young guys getting better, so let's see what happens. But I had a great time here. I love the facility and everything that they offered for me to do what I need to do to get ready for a game. And that's all I can ask for sure."

 

Meanwhile, Ray, who's one of the favorites to win AL Cy Young, wasn't as open as Semien on how he feels about a return to the club.

 

"It's definitely an option. I'm sure we'll be in touch," the left-hander said, according to Nicholson-Smith.

 

Cut Ray loose and offer Semien an extra year at market value. I have a feeling we may be able to sign him.

[King]

What would a Semien contract look like? Is it even smart to sign him longterm?

[Omar]

What would a Semien contract look like? Is it even smart to sign him longterm?

 

5/110m Maybe he is a dh in year 4/5. Maybe trade material down the road. The guy takes care of himself, is a physical specimen. Get it done Atkins!

[Brownie19]

5/110m Maybe he is a dh in year 4/5. Maybe trade material down the road. The guy takes care of himself, is a physical specimen. Get it done Atkins!

 

He's also a complete professional player who works his ass off.

[keggy]

I too would be shocked if he doesn't stay with the dodgers. Let's just roll the dice and sign Verlander. 1 year 16 mil.

 

Verlander likely cheated with sticky stuff. Knowing Houston, they probably helped him a lot.

[Abomination]

What would a Semien contract look like? Is it even smart to sign him longterm?

 

I don't like the idea of signing a guy coming off that kind of career year normally, but this is basically a repeat of 2019 so that makes me at least a little more comfortable with it.

 

There's a TON of great free agents this year. We have choice.

[Key22]

I think if you can sign Semien to a similar contract as Springer you do it. Apparently, the Jays have 80 million so the money should be there for both Semien and Ray and Matz plus a couple bullpen arms - Grichuck will be off the books fairly soon and Ryu only has 2 years left. So they should still have money open up to then use for the young studs. The Jays have the money - do they have the will. Pretty sure Semien will be crushing at 37 so I don't see why a Springer contract can't be done here. I don't know that it is enough. A stud shortstop is worth more than an outfielder. Semien will be viewed as a SS. $150m/6.

 

Top 3 MVP kind of player - I really want him back - Biggio is not a replacement.

[Abomination]

Top 3 MVP kind of player - I really want him back - Biggio is not a replacement.

 

I think Biggio is a LOT better than people are giving him credit for. It's hard to find someone like Semien though. I'm not sure anyone on the market right now could be a replacement for Semien at 2nd.

[Ryu In My House]

5/110m Maybe he is a dh in year 4/5. Maybe trade material down the road. The guy takes care of himself, is a physical specimen. Get it done Atkins!

 

I actually think he could play above average 2B for five years. He's in really great shape, clearly driven (like Halladay, IMO, how he keeps on wanting to improve 24/7), and I am 100% sure he is a great team player for this group of kids. I *even* consider a 6-year. I just don't know if he wants to play 2B. But he could be one of the best 2B ever if he plays it for 6 more years.

[Olerud363]

Resign Semien, sign Kyle Seager and Conforto, Stroman and some relievers

 

Kyle Seager has big home/road splits, especially last year. Still not a bad player

Conforto - 1 year contract rebuild value

Semien - the Springer Contract

Stroman - yeah social media mess, but seems like he's open to coming back so if we can't sign Ray sign Stroman

Relievers - Get like twice as many as last year (I know 40 man roster space)

 

Figure Stroman is 20 million a year, Semien 25, Seager 2 years 30 or something, Conforto 1 year 18. Rogers might have to increase payroll a bit, but why not. They'll make tonnes of money with another 90+ win team, so might as well.

 

This is a lot of redundancy in the line-up and better left/right balance, Biggio/Espinal pushed to 10th man, and the 10th man gets 500 plate appearances anyway. Grichuk pushed to 11th or off the team. Seems like a great guy so maybe you keep him, ideally he gets 1/2 as many plate appearances.

 

The prospect pool should be kept intact - then if reliever disasters happen early, maybe you can start flipping the B guys (Smith, Lopez) for re-enforcements.

[Mikeleelop]

Resign Semien, sign Kyle Seager and Conforto, Stroman and some relievers

 

Kyle Seager has big home/road splits, especially last year. Still not a bad player

Conforto - 1 year contract rebuild value

Semien - the Springer Contract

Stroman - yeah social media mess, but seems like he's open to coming back so if we can't sign Ray sign Stroman

Relievers - Get like twice as many as last year (I know 40 man roster space)

 

Figure Stroman is 20 million a year, Semien 25, Seager 2 years 30 or something, Conforto 1 year 18. Rogers might have to increase payroll a bit, but why not. They'll make tonnes of money with another 90+ win team, so might as well.

 

This is a lot of redundancy in the line-up and better left/right balance, Biggio/Espinal pushed to 10th man, and the 10th man gets 500 plate appearances anyway. Grichuk pushed to 11th or off the team. Seems like a great guy so maybe you keep him, ideally he gets 1/2 as many plate appearances.

 

The prospect pool should be kept intact - then if reliever disasters happen early, maybe you can start flipping the B guys (Smith, Lopez) for re-enforcements.

 

so conforto replaces Dickerson and Stro replaces Ray

 

i have more certainty with Stro than Ray anyway... Could Ray regress and you are paying for a "Blip up" year??

 

 

maybe you can move Kirk, knowing you have Moreno almost ready to replace him. I'd move Jansen too if the right offer came along

[saskjayfan]

Resign Semien, sign Kyle Seager and Conforto, Stroman and some relievers

 

Kyle Seager has big home/road splits, especially last year. Still not a bad player

Conforto - 1 year contract rebuild value

Semien - the Springer Contract

Stroman - yeah social media mess, but seems like he's open to coming back so if we can't sign Ray sign Stroman

Relievers - Get like twice as many as last year (I know 40 man roster space)

 

Figure Stroman is 20 million a year, Semien 25, Seager 2 years 30 or something, Conforto 1 year 18. Rogers might have to increase payroll a bit, but why not. They'll make tonnes of money with another 90+ win team, so might as well.

 

This is a lot of redundancy in the line-up and better left/right balance, Biggio/Espinal pushed to 10th man, and the 10th man gets 500 plate appearances anyway. Grichuk pushed to 11th or off the team. Seems like a great guy so maybe you keep him, ideally he gets 1/2 as many plate appearances.

 

The prospect pool should be kept intact - then if reliever disasters happen early, maybe you can start flipping the B guys (Smith, Lopez) for re-enforcements.

 

Conforto? How is a bad fielding hit first outfielder a priority for this team? I think Conforto still gets 10 to 12 mil on a one year. 18 would be ridiculous. Doesn't seem like a wise place to spend money.

Edited October 5, 2021 by saskjayfan

[BigCecil]

Resign Semien, sign Kyle Seager and Conforto, Stroman and some relievers

 

Kyle Seager has big home/road splits, especially last year. Still not a bad player

Conforto - 1 year contract rebuild value

Semien - the Springer Contract

Stroman - yeah social media mess, but seems like he's open to coming back so if we can't sign Ray sign Stroman

Relievers - Get like twice as many as last year (I know 40 man roster space)

 

Figure Stroman is 20 million a year, Semien 25, Seager 2 years 30 or something, Conforto 1 year 18. Rogers might have to increase payroll a bit, but why not. They'll make tonnes of money with another 90+ win team, so might as well.

 

This is a lot of redundancy in the line-up and better left/right balance, Biggio/Espinal pushed to 10th man, and the 10th man gets 500 plate appearances anyway. Grichuk pushed to 11th or off the team. Seems like a great guy so maybe you keep him, ideally he gets 1/2 as many plate appearances.

 

The prospect pool should be kept intact - then if reliever disasters happen early, maybe you can start flipping the B guys (Smith, Lopez) for re-enforcements.

 

Seager is somewhat intriguing. LHH - 2.5 fWAR with a 99 wRC+. Kind of a LHH Grichuk with more power when we comes to OBP and Ks this year. I don't know. Doesn't add that much if he doesn't rebound at 34.

 

Still would love to know cost of Ramirez. He just checks so many boxes for the 22 team and allows us to use Biggio/Espy at 2B. Lourdes plus top prospect/Nate? Lourdes has upside, control in an under market deal. I have no idea. I don't see us signing Semien or Ray.

[Laika]

Resign Semien, sign Kyle Seager and Conforto, Stroman and some relievers

 

Kyle Seager has big home/road splits, especially last year. Still not a bad player

Conforto - 1 year contract rebuild value

Semien - the Springer Contract

Stroman - yeah social media mess, but seems like he's open to coming back so if we can't sign Ray sign Stroman

Relievers - Get like twice as many as last year (I know 40 man roster space)

 

Figure Stroman is 20 million a year, Semien 25, Seager 2 years 30 or something, Conforto 1 year 18. Rogers might have to increase payroll a bit, but why not. They'll make tonnes of money with another 90+ win team, so might as well.

 

This is a lot of redundancy in the line-up and better left/right balance, Biggio/Espinal pushed to 10th man, and the 10th man gets 500 plate appearances anyway. Grichuk pushed to 11th or off the team. Seems like a great guy so maybe you keep him, ideally he gets 1/2 as many plate appearances.

 

The prospect pool should be kept intact - then if reliever disasters happen early, maybe you can start flipping the B guys (Smith, Lopez) for re-enforcements.

 

hate this

[Laika]

Kind of a LHH Grichuk

 

puke dot gif

[glory]

Still would love to know cost of Ramirez. He just checks so many boxes for the 22 team and allows us to use Biggio/Espy at 2B. Lourdes plus top prospect/Nate? Lourdes has upside, control in an under market deal. I have no idea. I don't see us signing Semien or Ray.

 

I don't think the InGuardians will trade Ramirez, but if they do, they always seem to prioritize some sort of short term help along with prospect capital. Maybe they would have interest in Gurriel, but he'd have to be included along with top prospects. To me, I'd want to hold on to Moreno and Martinez, but I'd be ok moving anyone else. Montoyo didn't seem all that eager to play Kirk down the stretch so maybe he's trade bait. I don't know if Groshans, Kirk, and Gurriel even gets their attention, but something like that is probably a starting point. They may insist on Moreno + others.

 

I still think Matt Chapman is a better target. Should be cheaper to acquire and the A's are almost guaranteed to cut payroll.

[saskjayfan]

Seager is somewhat intriguing. LHH - 2.5 fWAR with a 99 wRC+. Kind of a LHH Grichuk with more power when we comes to OBP and Ks this year. I don't know. Doesn't add that much if he doesn't rebound at 34.

 

Still would love to know cost of Ramirez. He just checks so many boxes for the 22 team and allows us to use Biggio/Espy at 2B. Lourdes plus top prospect/Nate? Lourdes has upside, control in an under market deal. I have no idea. I don't see us signing Semien or Ray.

 

I think there's a team out there that gives Ray 5 and 150. I don't see us going there. I think we will sign Semien and I've felt all year that we wouldn't. 5 and 125. Santiago espinal has really good bat to ball skills. The kid is a good defender. I took my till August for me to realize he was as good as he is. I think he should be our starting 3rd baseman. Biggio can obviously be our super utility. Groshans and Smith are kids that can come up. I feel like they might move Moreno to 3rd. 15 mil on a declining Seager would be a waste. Put that money towards pitching. Ramirez would be fantastic, but I feel like Cleveland will hold on to him.

[Olerud363]

Conforto? How is a bad fielding hit first outfielder a priority for this team? I think Conforto still gets 10 to 12 mil on a one year. 18 would be ridiculous. Doesn't seem like a wise place to spend money.

 

He's an on base guy, bats left, and his terrible season last year was better than Grichuk. If you can get him for less that would be great, but give a competitive offer.

 

The downside is 1 WAR if he repeats last year, and the upside 4 WAR. I assume the going rate for that is about = to the qualifying offer. From what I have read he is on the bubble so other teams must value him about there.

 

Happy to get him for lower. Main purpose is to improve the DH position. Jays DHs must of been negative WAR last year, and as I mentioned in another post the rotating DH thing isn't always a great thing, as injured or tired players are rotated in, and they aren't hitting. Full time DH would improve the team.

[BigCecil]

I don't think the InGuardians will trade Ramirez, but if they do, they always seem to prioritize some sort of short term help along with prospect capital. Maybe they would have interest in Gurriel, but he'd have to be included along with top prospects. To me, I'd want to hold on to Moreno and Martinez, but I'd be ok moving anyone else. Montoyo didn't seem all that eager to play Kirk down the stretch so maybe he's trade bait. I don't know if Groshans, Kirk, and Gurriel even gets their attention, but something like that is probably a starting point. They may insist on Moreno + others.

 

I still think Matt Chapman is a better target. Should be cheaper to acquire and the A's are almost guaranteed to cut payroll.

 

Be ironic to tap the A's again for another elite 3B without giving much up. One of AA's better deals bringing JD over.