Ervin Santana want One year and the promise "Not QO for 2015"

[pickoff22]

Shocked by how many fans are anti-Santana or growing "sick" of his act. Guess it's part of being a disgruntled Toronto sports fan, but my god people. A rumour comes out that he has set a deadline without any verification that he indeed did do this and now all of a sudden he's a jack-ass because he hasn't signed yet?

 

Fact is that most tweets or reports that come out these days are half-truths or no-truths. Who knows what he has been offered and it sure doesn't sound like he ever set a 5pm deadline. It's not a game to him it's a big career choice. So forgive me if I can understand why he would want to wait more than 12 hours to sign a contract after it comes out that he would be willing to entertain the idea of a 1 year contract.

 

Either way he would be a big help for the 2014 Jays. Hope they can make it happen and apparently the veteran players are making it clear they feel the same way.

[Terminator]

Projections. I completely understand his side...if you are going to put in that much work figuring out projections than you should and will stand by them. JFAs is a smart guy though; he's fully aware that he's making his projections based on a pitcher being healthy enough to pitch (info none of us have but the Jays certainly should). What he's saying is he's projecting JJ to pitch 150+ innings at a 3.60 ERA...and that should be worth $14M. I think we'd all agree with that.

 

I appreciate his projections. But he's blasting the FO and saying it's not even debatable that Johnson should have been given the QO. Like you said, we don't have access to the medical reports but the guy has suffered extended DL stints in 3 of the past 6 seasons (as well as surgery this past offseason); that should give anyone pause. But in his eyes, it's not even debatable, Johnson is worth 14 million. On top of it, this team is apparently cash strapped. 14 mil for a guy with Johnson's history is clearly debatable.

 

Personally, do I think the team would be dumb to have offered him 14 mil? Not necessarily but I don't think it's a no brainer either.

 

Also, I appreciate the time he puts in to projections. His model is better than anything I could create if you gave me a decade to do so. But pardon me for being skeptical of it. He does, after all, project Chris Capuano for a career year at 3 WAR. Of the three projections that fangraphs offers, Oliver rates him the highest with 1. Maybe he's right, but we probably won't get the chance to find out, the best Capuano could do is land a job in a bullpen for a couple of mil.

[8D]

Promise not to offer a qualifying offer for 2015? Cool.

Offer him 1yr @ $5MN or something around there and then walk. He doesn't want it, let some other team deal with this guy.

Despair this fella. Not sure other teams will offer him $14MN + no QO, so I think his demands are going to drop further. If not, f*** him.

For the past two weeks or so, I've already had the expectation to start the season with what the Jays already have in-house, so this doesn't change much.

[Jimcanuck]

How big a deal is a no QO promise? Prospects are a crapshoot anyway

 

Besides he puts more pressure on himself to perform because he has removed the draft pick compensation incentive of a QO

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I've got him at 1.2 now. Down to 110 IP.

 

I am also assuming Johnson is healthy. The un-debatable part was his expected performance. I don't assume anyone is injury prone unless they have a chronic injury or condition.

 

The fact that "expected performance" is based in part on your highly subjective assumptions makes it debatable. Not sure why you don't understand this, but thanks for making this clear in a concise way in this post. It would be foolish for any team to pay Johnson this season without discounting him based on his recent injuries. It would be especially foolish for the Jays, a team with many pitchers that are injury prone, to overpay for a pitcher with a tendency to get injured.

[JFD]

I know everyone is desperate for some Ervin Santana but this is a basement team with or without him so it doesn't even matter.

 

would still be nice to have some MLB talent on the pitching staff though for entertainment value.

[Chappy]

I know everyone is desperate for some Ervin Santana but this is a basement team with or without him so it doesn't even matter.

 

would still be nice to have some MLB talent on the pitching staff though for entertainment value.

 

This is hardly a basement team with Santana. He makes this team better. Maybe not by as much as many would want, but he gives this team a chance to get a guy who can eat innings and in the process improve our SP depth.

[jays4life19]

God Damnit.

 

Ive stated i don't really have a boner for Santana on this board here in the past. However, on a 1 year deal who gives a f***. It's really doubtful at this point in the off season we spend the money on anything else. It shouldn't have any impact on future payroll since its a 1 year deal. We have a limited window. f***, give him 1 year and 16 million. who gives a s*** if it turns out to be negative surplus value. It's 1 year.

[Stangstag]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/latest-on-ervin-santana-1.html

 

Braves are "very interested" in Santana with Medlen and now Beachy going down.

 

Well that pretty much confirms Santana will be signing a 1 year deal with Atlanta. Meh

[vdartanian]

Let's assume for a moment that JFaS is as good at pitching as he is at hitting the Excel function icon. He's in the bigs, and makes his next start.

 

1.2 innings later, he's out of the game.

 

8 runs surrendered, all earned. 10 hits. 3 K's and no walks. 4 fly balls and 8 grounders. 3 HRs, the shortest of which measured 485 ft.

 

After the game, he's interviewed ...

 

Reporter: So, JFaS ... what happened out there? Did you feel OK? Tell us how you felt about your performance.

 

Cy JFaS: I pitched awesome. Felt great. Didn't you see me? 3 Ks? In less than 2 innings? And not a single walk. Booyah! And 2 to 1 groundball to flyball ratio? I was en fuego. Tore ish up, son.

 

Reporter: But, you only last 1 and 2/3 innings and gave up 8 runs, including some of the longest HRs of the season. Any season, really.

 

Cy JFaS: Child please. Those homers were luck. Shoulda been easy fly balls. Any other day, can o' corn. And their batting average on balls in play was bananas. That won't happen again. Pure bad luck. Sure, Lawrie literally got spun around and knock down by the force of some of those grounders, but you have to expect he'll do better next time and snag those. Or we'll find someone with a better Ultimate Zone Rating who can do the job expected of him. I can't do everything. Besides, this ballpark has a high park factor for homers. So, yeah, I pretty much dominated.

 

Reporter: Did you hit your head?

 

Cy JFaS: xFIP you, biatch. I'm da bomb. Don't be all egregious up in hurr.

 

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/4505781+_b1d3b31f6a04e57b85f75e3c9322aaaa.jpg

[bbb44]

He cant do nothing but future free agents will be made well aware of it

[Boxcar]

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/4505781+_b1d3b31f6a04e57b85f75e3c9322aaaa.jpg

 

Wish that guy had never found this board. What a cock.

 

I especially love his incredibly unfunny made-up conversations. Painful.

[8D]

Wish that guy had never found this board. What a cock.

 

I especially love his incredibly unfunny made-up conversations. Painful.

 

I just don't read his posts. I honestly feel like I lose brain cells reading his posts.

[glory]

Yeah the Jays gave up actual trade assets to get Josh Johnson and never bothered to qualify him. Santana not wanting to be given a qualifying offer doesn't seem like that big of a deal if you think he can help the 2014 team.

[TheHurl]

you know who else I think is injury prone...pitchers.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Holy s*** Moogy and CHP are like Batman and Robin. Pretty gay stuff. Why so gay? Well who the hell puts nipples on body armor?

On a serious note CHP. Johnson has been less injury prone than the likes of Morrow and such and put up good numbers every year of his career other than last. So track records are actually worth something. You might want to look into this. I think you just make s*** up in your own head as to what's occurred in the past.

 

Johnson hasn't been an elite pitcher since 2010. I checked into this a long time ago when people first started chirping about the QO. There is no way in hell he is worth $14M given his injury history and 2013 pitching performance. Ask any actuary how they would value such a situation. Yes, track records are worth something, I don't see people talking about Morrow's contract like its a bargain. For some reason, you want to have both of them on the team, like stockpiling injury prone pitchers is a strategy.

 

But bottom line is, as I stated during the season when this debate came up, the market itself would settle he topic. And it did. He's apparently worth roughly $8M despite a fairly inflated salary year. The continued insistence that some of you guys think you know far better then the real GMs is absurd and tiresome, but seemingly a given on here on all sorts of topics. Put it on your resume and apply for GM. You can state you'd have paid a 75% premium to market on JJ because of his track record. See how much credibility that gets you.

[Boxcar]

I don't know if this link will work for you but

 

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

 

See, high85 is incredibly annoying but no one ever responds to his posts. I don't even realize he posts here.

 

Abrasive *******s like Moogy and CHP derail entire threads, making them impossible to ignore.

[KingKat]

Johnson didn't want to play here plain and simple

 

If Johnson didn't want to play here, wouldn't that be all the more reason to make the Q.O.? Not sure the point you're trying to make here.

[Brenner]

Did Ervin Santana sign with Baltimore and literally break the forum?

[HERPDERP]

Did Ervin Santana sign with Baltimore and literally break the forum?

 

Yes.

 

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi ·7 mins

BREAKING Ervin Santana signs 5 year deal with Orioles

[HERPDERP]

Yes.

 

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi ·7 mins

BREAKING Ervin Santana signs 5 year deal with Orioles

 

Kidding, site admin just forgot to pay bills

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

See, high85 is incredibly annoying but no one ever responds to his posts. I don't even realize he posts here.

 

Abrasive *******s like Moogy and CHP derail entire threads, making them impossible to ignore.

 

I invite anyone to view this guys posting history and how negative he is on almost every post. To be called abrasive by this guy is a joke.

It would be kind of like being told by a felon that I need to be nicer, or that the world would be better without me around. Oh wait ... .

[TwistedLogic]

I invite anyone to view this guys posting history and how negative he is on almost every post. To be called abrasive by this guy is a joke.

It would be kind of like being told by a felon that I need to be nicer, or that the world would be better without me around. Oh wait ... .

 

Very typical example of an ad hominem argument. That is, discrediting an argument based solely because of the source of the argument. Just because the guy is a felon, his opinion should not be discredited, because him being a felon does not necessarily make him incorrect in saying that the world, in fact, would be better without you.

[cornelius woodenfeet]

I see him as medium dark, 5'8" with a massive mustache.

 

he looks like juan epstein got gabe kotter pregnant and had a baby born with a lanny mcdonald stache at birth

[saskjayfan]

Very typical example of an ad hominem argument. That is, discrediting an argument based solely because of the source of the argument. Just because the guy is a felon, his opinion should not be discredited, because him being a felon does not necessarily make him incorrect in saying that the world, in fact, would be better without you.

 

what a funny post...seriously just sign Santana. I can't take any more of this!

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Well this thread went to s***.

 

...Anyways... any idea when this craziness will end? f*** you Santana you greedy ****.

[The_DH]

Well this thread went to s***.

 

...Anyways... any idea when this craziness will end? f*** you Santana you greedy ****.

 

Totally agree. Does anyone think he will get significantly more than 14? 14.1 maybe?

[flafson]

It's his right to try and get the best deal, obviously his former agent screwed him so he's trying to make up for it now that he knows there is some market for him.

[Flashman]

It's his right to try and get the best deal, obviously his former agent screwed him so he's trying to make up for it now that he knows there is some market for him.

 

Nobody is saying his right to get the best deal should be revoked. Nor, I imagine, does anybody have a problem with a player/worker striving to achieve as much as possible.

 

But f***, this is a dollar-hungry shitshow.

 

Turns down a qualifying offer of $14m, which is decent AAV, knowing full well he has a draft pick attached to him. Then there's talk of $100m, limiting his market in a huge way. Then there's the one year deal and the 10p deadline. Then there's no deadline. Then there's Santana's reps getting in touch with everyone despite two solid offers matching his demand being on the table. All the while he's losing valuable conditioning and coaching time in spring training.

 

I mean, at this point, surely any difference between the original QO and what he settles for will be negligible. When you have a multimillionaire like Santana scratching around for an extra few percent over the course of six months, well, what other term are you left with but 'greed'? It's not an appealing thing to see go down.

[Chappy]

Ervin Santana FTW.