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That's been the Jays for quite a few years now. We fall back in the AL East in the second half because our peers are active at the deadline almost every year. Look at the Yankees, once they lost Tanaka they had much worse chances then our team moving forward. Yet they've already added 3-4 useful players trying to fill their holes and are threatening to make a "bigger move" in the press. Even if half of them bomb they gained on these transactions.

Interesting how often people use the "Jays haven't played a meaningful game in 20 years" argument to back up their points on here literally hundreds of times but I'm supposed to split up the Cubs losing seasons by GM. And interesting how you felt Bolland had anything to do with this topic ( a one year rental hockey player that the Leafs let go this season ). Interesting how you decided to interject several insulting posts on here with no real point other then to try to jab me with a stick and get a reaction from me or other fanboys of similar propensity to pester and annoy people. Look, rarely do you post something interesting that doesn't pick a fight with someone. It is what it is, and at least one moderator thinks you present some value on this topic. So when the forum degenerates into the usual "Jays suck' or "Poster X sucks look at these posts" themes, I know you'll be plenty up to that task. I just don't expect much from you and you don't disappoint me in that regard.

You seem borderline retarded most of the time on here. Big talk hiding behind your keyboard dipshit.

2009-2014 is 6 years. Not sure if it's fair to count 2009, so let's say 5 years. So if you insist on using the Cubs as an example, they tore apart their team and 5 years later still no payoff. Even their GM readily admits he wasn't expecting to still be trading away core pitching assets in 2014.

Objectively, the Cubs haven't been very efficient in this process, and it's taking a long time. Attendance for the Cubs used to be easy, they had some of the most loyal fans in baseball. Attendance dropped 500K last year and it's not getting better this year. It's all good that you like the team when they come out of a long, drawn out rebuild and finally win some games, but I'd note that they haven't had a winning team since 2009 and you are still not willing to take them on. And one might note that the Cubs, like the Rays, have yet to win a World Series, so even the most optimistic fan of these franchises has to temper their enthusiasm somewhat. It is ironic that some of you think the Cubs are an example of a good rebuild, when I think the exact opposite, that they illustrate that a reputable GM and a strong commitment to rebuilding "the right way" can still be a huge failure in today's MLB.

Cubs recent win totals : 83, 75, 71, 61, 66 . Rebuild was supposed to be over by now ( their management I believe said they'd contend by this year ). Their recent trade says they are still rebuilding, although one might call it a retool if one is optimistic. So for the Jays to follow the Cubs plan, we need to totally sacrifice the 2015-2020, and then some of you guys might say "I'd rather be the Jays moving forward then Team X ". So the main point is not how the Cubs do moving forward. This is a tough guess ( they could be like the Rays were 7 years ago, or they might be the Twins/Royals ). The main point will be how will the Jays do from 2014-2021 given whatever strategy they choose.

I'll remember you posted this on June 20 when they were 8 games above .500, and this time you didn't try to weasel out of it based on math. Put that on the list of reasons why I've had it with this site. I'll be back later this year when the Jays real fate is clear ( contrary to popular belief, it's not ), and take no prisoners if by some small miracle ( according to this forum ) that we make the playoffs. And if they fail. you get what you wanted and I have no problem with it.

I just came to the realization that the Jays have easier obstacles to overcome then the challenge of countering the anti-Jay group on here. 20 years of losing has created a culture that expects nothing but failure and how dare anyone expect anything else but failure. Might be time I stopped frequenting these baseball sites, I don't need months of this nonesense that will occur regardless of how the Jays do. Nothing short of an AL championship series will change things here, and if they fade it will just turn into the 2013 s*** fest with previous regulars like BTS and The Hurl posting how they knew all along they'd fail on top of the short term reactionary crew now. I'll be back at some point when the Jays fate is more clear. I'm not sure there is anybody else on this site that gives them the best shot at the AL East, so I've staked my claim at that forecast.

Rays get shut out a lot and were a common preseason favorite to win the AL East. Their best option being proposed lately is to tank the team for years by trading their best players for prospects. Rays fans hang their hats on the idea that their management is so strong that they can fleece other GMs of their best prospects, despite being known for doing exactly that the last few years. My opinion, being a Rays fan is a lot worse, lot of bad times ( think Cubs ) are coming down the pipe.

Any team in a 5 team division is usually going to fail. The issue is writing them off, which is a joke at this point. Any teams that can compete well enough over 70+ games is capable of competing well enough over 162 games. There is no guarantee they will, the majority of teams fail. I clearly stated in the past that I like the Jays chances to win this division more then any other team, but that the one scenario that is most worrisome involves losing many head to head with the Yankees and the Yankees augmenting their team at the deadline. This is a rationale way of addressing team chances. Simply writing a team off because it just feels right to do so is what I am addressing here. Or addressing reasons that don't hold much water over 40 years of baseball ( like a "hot month" being unsustainable being a reason you don't win a division; in reality, such a month often forecasts a winner ). So if people want to put up rationale reasons why they may lose the season, and do something like pick another AL East team that will win, go for it. But this whole theory that the Jays will lose because they haven't won in 20 years and something about the jersey decrees this is a whole bunch of crap. Yet we see this kind of posting on here 20 times a day now.

You are so full of crap. I am curious, if not the Jays, tell me which teams impress you this year and are locks to make the playoffs. Tell me about the great depth of those teams. I seem to remember people laughing about who the Yankees were starting earlier this year, and Detroit was home free and going to run away with their division. Tell me about how Atlanta ( BJ Upton has upside right ? ), Milwaukie ( man they were good last year ), and KC ( an offence that can't be stopped ) are so damn good the Jays just don't match up against any of them. I think the Jays are stronger then all these teams, but I wouldn't write any of them off.

There isn't an ounce of truth to what you say, but like any emotionally based opinion you won't be phased I'm sure. If you are writing off the Jays, then you should also write off Atlanta, Milwaukie, and Detroit who all suffered through equally bad stretches during this season. At one point all these teams had massive division leads, equal or bigger then Toronto had. The whole concept that you can ignore a hot month in analyzing a season is stupid. Every game counts. Players go hot and cold every year. But you know what, go ahead write off a first place team and PLEASE find another team to follow. We really don't need bandwagon fans who cry a river every time this team has a bad week. What happened to the idea that all people wanted was meaningful games for the Jays past May ?

In reality, one is best served to understand that you are a pure TROLL and very little of what you say has any value.

Not even close to reality for me, but certainly in a league where the majority of teams "fail", it must be comfortable for you to dismiss a team every year for purely emotional reasons. And this goes even further. Here we are almost half way through the season, and you are still dismissing the team. You have your drug of choice and rehab isn't going to take for quite a while I'm sure. I have no expectations of being right all the time, but I did basically state in April that I considered the Jays to be the best bet to win the AL East, the Rays to be the best bet to finish last place, and that the Jays will be competitive on 2015 as well. If I'm wrong, I don't really care. I am just thankful the Jays didn't follow the advice of a lot of people on here and start some rash massive rebuild simply because our new roster in 2013 suffered. That would have been bad judgement, the kind you like to attribute to AA. And remember, I was with you on firing AA at the end of 2013. He doesn't look half as bad now, but I'm still not sold on him as our GM. I'm older then a lot of people on here, and the one word of advice I have is try to enjoy the journey sometimes that's more important then the end result. My approach to sports has changed immensely over 30 years.

Jays made huge roster moves prior to the 2013 season, so the whole idea that the Jays from 1994-2012 have some bearing on 2013-2015 is illogical anyways. But to an emotional poster who hates the team, perhaps some one who believed in them most of those years, they might post as he does. In reality, the only sure thing is opinions that are posted are real, and they can be followed up on. Anyone who though the Rays would win the AL East and the Jays would be comfortably in last place ( and there are numerous people on here who thought that ), they got it very wrong. So be it, baseball is somewhat unpredictable.