General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[max silver]

Too many key hitters having career-worst years all at once

 

That sounds like a repeat of last season.

[G-Snarls]

That sounds like a repeat of last season.

 

Yeah

 

Too many guys for too long for it to just be luck

[Eat My Shatkins]

That sounds like a repeat of last season.

 

Yes. Like last season on steroids

[Olerud363]

Yeah

 

Too many guys for too long for it to just be luck

 

Since hitting strategies are proprietary impossible to know as fans what is going on, but something has been going on since the cheating scandal. Just logic.

 

If we assume the cheating was very helpful then we assume knowing what pitch is coming is helpful.

 

So how you do legally figure out what's coming? Not with 100% certainty but with a better certainty than random.

 

It's just corporate warfare. Teams have all these labs and proprietary pitching and hitting strategies and it works until it doesn't... (the other teams figure out what you are doing).

 

Look at TBR first few months of last year, and since. Something happened. I remember when TBR hit .300 .400 .500 for like a month a few people 'hinted' that they knew what was up... and it was something, but now it's not.

[Olerud363]

Since hitting strategies are proprietary impossible to know as fans what is going on, but something has been going on since the cheating scandal. Just logic.

 

If we assume the cheating was very helpful then we assume knowing what pitch is coming is helpful.

 

So how you do legally figure out what's coming? Not with 100% certainty but with a better certainty than random.

 

It's just corporate warfare. Teams have all these labs and proprietary pitching and hitting strategies and it works until it doesn't... (the other teams figure out what you are doing).

 

Look at TBR first few months of last year, and since. Something happened. I remember when TBR hit .300 .400 .500 for like a month a few people 'hinted' that they knew what was up... and it was something, but now it's not.

 

So the short version is we don't know what is going on, well at least if you do your probably under NDA so can't say, but some strategic hitting lab s*** is going on and the Jays are very bad it... we know that much.

[Stangstag]

Since hitting strategies are proprietary impossible to know as fans what is going on, but something has been going on since the cheating scandal. Just logic.

 

If we assume the cheating was very helpful then we assume knowing what pitch is coming is helpful.

 

So how you do legally figure out what's coming? Not with 100% certainty but with a better certainty than random.

 

It's just corporate warfare. Teams have all these labs and proprietary pitching and hitting strategies and it works until it doesn't... (the other teams figure out what you are doing).

 

Look at TBR first few months of last year, and since. Something happened. I remember when TBR hit .300 .400 .500 for like a month a few people 'hinted' that they knew what was up... and it was something, but now it's not.

 

TB had to be cheating last year. Too many guys were hitting well above their weight, including f***ing TAYLOR WALLS

 

Makes me wonder if the Orioles are cheating… their entire lineup is pretty much best possible outcomes

[Big_Walleye]

TB had to be cheating last year. Too many guys were hitting well above their weight, including f***ing TAYLOR WALLS

 

Makes me wonder if the Orioles are cheating… their entire lineup is pretty much best possible outcomes

 

If youre wondering how they're cheating, look no further than pitchcom. I'm sure there are whiz kids on plenty of team payrolls that have figured out how to intercept the signals.

 

I also wonder if some batters aren't hearing the catchers speaker in a quiet stadium.

[HomeRunHomer]

They are all just wearing The Whisper 2000 to the hear the pitchcom.

[Masterbather]

TB had to be cheating last year. Too many guys were hitting well above their weight, including f***ing TAYLOR WALLS

 

Makes me wonder if the Orioles are cheating… their entire lineup is pretty much best possible outcomes

Well then why the f*** can't the nerds on our team figure out how to cheat?

 

Clearly we need better nerds.

[BigCecil]

Erik Swanson came into this Buffalo Bisons game to protect a 2-0 lead in the 7th and it went sideways in a hurry.

 

Final line for Swanson was 2BB, a hit, 1 ER and 1 unearned run on an error. His ERA did go down from 9.26 to 8.97.

[AMS528]

Bo career OPS .806 / this season .633

Kirk career OPS .738 / this season .594

Springer career OPS .823 / this season .582

Turner career OPS .823 / this season .673

KK career OPS .713 / this season .565

Vogelbach career OPS .745 / this season .578

 

 

wRC+

 

Bo career 122 / season 83

Kirk career 111 / season 80

Springer career 128 / season 76

Turner career 126 / season 98

KK career 97 / season 62

Vogelbach career 108 / season 70

 

 

Something is just rotten to the core here.

 

Springer must be just cooked I guess, but JT still had an .800 OPS and 114 wRC+ last year.

 

Vladdy, IKF, Varsho and Jansen all hanging in around career averages.

 

 

Springer and KK are both 34, Turner is 39. There are only 28 guys in the league with are 34 or over with 100 PAs this year, we've got three of them (and we are the only team with three of them). Out of those 28, KK, is 23rd worst, Springer is 19th and Turner is 15th.

 

You can say they've been disappointing, and maybe you hope one of them would have done a bit better. But they're old and sometimes old players will start sucking really badly suddenly. You shouldn't be relying on them, and you definitely shouldn't be relying on three of them.

[jaysblue]

Blue Jays are now 32-10 when they score at least 3 runs.

 

But Atkins couldn't do anything this offseason to improve the lineup.

[Brownie19]

Springer and KK are both 34, Turner is 39. There are only 28 guys in the league with are 34 or over with 100 PAs this year, we've got three of them (and we are the only team with three of them). Out of those 28, KK, is 23rd worst, Springer is 19th and Turner is 15th.

 

You can say they've been disappointing, and maybe you hope one of them would have done a bit better. But they're old and sometimes old players will start sucking really badly suddenly. You shouldn't be relying on them, and you definitely shouldn't be relying on three of them.

 

That's a pretty crazy stat. Man - baseball was so different with steroids. Then again, those f***ing steroid guys forced pitchers to start throwing harder because they couldn't get those f***ing guys out and that's created the game we have today, which isn't nearly as enjoyable as baseball was during the steroid era.

[BatFlip]

That's a pretty crazy stat. Man - baseball was so different with steroids. Then again, those f***ing steroid guys forced pitchers to start throwing harder because they couldn't get those f***ing guys out and that's created the game we have today, which isn't nearly as enjoyable as baseball was during the steroid era.

 

The steroid era was a joy to behold. I still remember McGwire and Sosa chasing Maris in 98 and Bonds in 2001.

[Jays24]

Blue Jays are now 32-10 when they score at least 3 runs.

 

But Atkins couldn't do anything this offseason to improve the lineup.

 

Literally the one thing we needed to improve in the offseason and we somehow spent 50M without doing exactly that. Only once the fans stop showing up or start booing heavily during home games will we see true change. Too many comfortable folks in this organization.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Springer and KK are both 34, Turner is 39. There are only 28 guys in the league with are 34 or over with 100 PAs this year, we've got three of them (and we are the only team with three of them). Out of those 28, KK, is 23rd worst, Springer is 19th and Turner is 15th.

 

You can say they've been disappointing, and maybe you hope one of them would have done a bit better. But they're old and sometimes old players will start sucking really badly suddenly. You shouldn't be relying on them, and you definitely shouldn't be relying on three of them.

 

I agree these guys are old and I'd love to see more Bisons brought up. I mean would Barger really be worse than a .589 OPS playing in RF every day? We'd probably lose some D value but it's ridiculous that they keep trotting Springer out there every day.

[Olerud363]

TB had to be cheating last year. Too many guys were hitting well above their weight, including f***ing TAYLOR WALLS

 

Makes me wonder if the Orioles are cheating… their entire lineup is pretty much best possible outcomes

 

What is cheating though? Hack the pitchcom ? PEDs ?

 

What is legal means of enhancing outcomes ? Advanced AI video analysis to find 'tells' ? Massive Psycho-sematic video cage work ? Advanced mechanics lab ? Nutrition and sleep optimization including right time to take legal alertness aids like redbull ?

[jaysblue]

TB had to be cheating last year. Too many guys were hitting well above their weight, including f***ing TAYLOR WALLS

 

Makes me wonder if the Orioles are cheating… their entire lineup is pretty much best possible outcomes

 

Please not with this again.

[jaysblue]

I agree these guys are old and I'd love to see more Bisons brought up. I mean would Barger really be worse than a .589 OPS playing in RF every day? We'd probably lose some D value but it's ridiculous that they keep trotting Springer out there every day.

 

Who's job is it to make that assessment on players and the roster?

 

You just agreed that the Jays are rostering too many older players with risks like Springer, KK and Turner. Two of the THREE which signed as FA's this past offseason.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Who's job is it to make that assessment on players and the roster?

 

You just agreed that the Jays are rostering too many older players with risks like Springer, KK and Turner. Two of the THREE which signed as FA's this past offseason.

 

Yes.....and?

[mphenhef]

Springer and KK are both 34, Turner is 39. There are only 28 guys in the league with are 34 or over with 100 PAs this year, we've got three of them (and we are the only team with three of them). Out of those 28, KK, is 23rd worst, Springer is 19th and Turner is 15th.

 

You can say they've been disappointing, and maybe you hope one of them would have done a bit better. But they're old and sometimes old players will start sucking really badly suddenly. You shouldn't be relying on them, and you definitely shouldn't be relying on three of them.

 

Don't worry! We have a 40 year old coming to save us, who is nearly ready to start taking at bats again 88 days after twisting his ankle.

[glory]

Springer and KK are both 34, Turner is 39. There are only 28 guys in the league with are 34 or over with 100 PAs this year, we've got three of them (and we are the only team with three of them). Out of those 28, KK, is 23rd worst, Springer is 19th and Turner is 15th.

 

You can say they've been disappointing, and maybe you hope one of them would have done a bit better. But they're old and sometimes old players will start sucking really badly suddenly. You shouldn't be relying on them, and you definitely shouldn't be relying on three of them.

 

Agreed. They were obviously stuck with Springer due to the contract but it’s pitiful that they intentionally dropped nearly $25m on KK/Turner and expected a high floor from that. KK was coming off an offensive season he was unlikely to replicate (nevermind the team already had an elite defensive CF) and Turner is 105 after already starting to slip in 2023. The sad thing is they could probably maximize value out of those two with diminished roles. Use KK as a pinch runner/defensive replacement/4th OF and Turner as a platoon DH who only hits LHP. Springer is harder to use in a reduced role because he doesn’t really specialize in anything but playing less probably couldn’t hurt. Instead they’ll play almost everyday.

 

This team needs to get younger and more athletic in a bad way.

[BigCecil]

Springer and KK are both 34, Turner is 39. There are only 28 guys in the league with are 34 or over with 100 PAs this year, we've got three of them (and we are the only team with three of them). Out of those 28, KK, is 23rd worst, Springer is 19th and Turner is 15th.

 

You can say they've been disappointing, and maybe you hope one of them would have done a bit better. But they're old and sometimes old players will start sucking really badly suddenly. You shouldn't be relying on them, and you definitely shouldn't be relying on three of them.

 

Yep. We stayed at the table too long with KK. Should have just cashed in the winning chips from his resurrection season of 2023.

 

Springer there is little choice - 2.5 more years and $63M to go.

 

JT was an odd signing @13M - 40 projecting 105 and declining against the FB in '23.

[glory]

 

I think he'll end up on the Phillies (they desperately need a CF and Dombrowski is a big move maker), but honestly I'm so underwhelmed with the Jays farm system that if they can sell high on some of them (Orelvis, Tiedemann, etc) for someone with Robert's upside/years of control, then I'd be ok with it even though I don't care for this core. I doubt they have the pieces to make it work though, unless they want to take some bad money or something.

[jaysblue]

Anyone planning on driving down to Cleveland next weekend?

[Masterbather]

Anyone planning on driving down to Cleveland next weekend?

 

Never been to Cleveland, is it worthwhile? I will be in Boston for the Monday game.

[John_Havok]

Never been to Cleveland, is it worthwhile? I will be in Boston for the Monday game.

 

I've never been myself, but word is Cleveland as a city has undergone quite the resurgence in the past 10-15 years and is a very cool place to checkout now

[jaysblue]

Never been to Cleveland, is it worthwhile? I will be in Boston for the Monday game.

 

Yeah Cleveland has cleaned up and there are a lot of cool bars and restaurants around the ballpark and arena. Nice city to visit for a weekend for sure. Was thinking driving to Cleveland to see the Jays or drive to Pittsburgh to see them host the Rays. I've never been to PNC Park.

 

I was in Boston two weeks ago and caught the Tigers game on Friday night at Fenway!

[jaysblue]

I've never been myself, but word is Cleveland as a city has undergone quite the resurgence in the past 10-15 years and is a very cool place to checkout now

 

Yeah Cleveland has undergone a resurgence. It's a great city to go watch a sporting event in! The two times I've been (Jays ALCS in 2016 and Raptors Playoffs in 2018) were both a blast!

[Brownie19]

I've never been myself, but word is Cleveland as a city has undergone quite the resurgence in the past 10-15 years and is a very cool place to checkout now

 

I was in Cleveland back in 2017 or 2018 and we enjoyed it. Ball park was a ton of fun and we ate on 4th Street East, which is a pedestrian only street with all kinds of great patios and night life.