General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Jays24]

How much winning would people even be talking about if we didn't have expanded playoffs? Seems pretty stupid to talk about all this winning when comparing to past era's where only 4 teams made the playoffs.

 

Our best stretch of meaningful baseball since 92/93 was clearly 2015/2016 and its not even close. The only team that most people loved during the Shatkins era was 2021 and we didn't even make the playoffs that year.

[Eat My Shatkins]

How much winning would people even be talking about if we didn't have expanded playoffs? Seems pretty stupid to talk about all this winning when comparing to past era's where only 4 teams made the playoffs.

 

Our best stretch of meaningful baseball since 92/93 was clearly 2015/2016 and its not even close. The only team that most people loved during the Shatkins era was 2021 and we didn't even make the playoffs that year.

 

But we do have expanded playoffs so who gives a s*** about what it'd be like if we didn't have them?

[Jays333]

But we do have expanded playoffs so who gives a s*** about what it'd be like if we didn't have them?

 

Thats fair. But I also think because we live in the era where MLB crossed over from the old playoff to the new that we all know what it used to be like. Which means many fans dont necessarily believe that squeaking into the 3rd wildcard spot with 89 or 90 wins and getting bounced without winning a game against the actual good teams is any measure of success.

 

Yea were not the A's, Rocks, or Angels, and we have won a lot more regular season games than in previous eras, but we were never a true playoff contender, world series contender. We were a mediocre team that squeaked into the expanded playoffs a few times and got rightfully bounced immediately.

[Jays24]

But we do have expanded playoffs so who gives a s*** about what it'd be like if we didn't have them?

 

Stop using it as an indicator to say that the current era was better than past era's then. Seems pretty obvious that highlighting playoff appearances isn't the best way measure success. Like I said, give me the 2015/2016 teams over this current era 10 times out of 10.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Stop using it as an indicator to say that the current era was better than past era's then. Seems pretty obvious that highlighting playoff appearances isn't the best way measure success. Like I said, give me the 2015/2016 teams over this current era 10 times out of 10.

 

I haven't done that as far as I know but I'll use it as an indicator of whatever the f*** I want, thank you very much .

[Olerud363]

We need to hit some bombs so I thought to take a chance on Orelvis while keeping his glove out of the lineup.

 

I half think Orelvis might hit .230 with 30 homers in any league from single A through the majors because the quality of infield defense won't matter.... they all will catch his popups no matter what.

 

Compared to Vlad who probably lost a lot coming to the majors because major league infields were much better scooping up his 107 mph ground balls.

 

So sure. Orelvis 'popup' Martinez. Call him up and he still has time to lead the Jays in homers.

[Olerud363]

I half think Orelvis might hit .230 with 30 homers in any league from single A through the majors because the quality of infield defense won't matter.... they all will catch his popups no matter what.

 

Compared to Vlad who probably lost a lot coming to the majors because major league infields were much better scooping up his 107 mph ground balls.

 

So sure. Orelvis 'popup' Martinez. Call him up and he still has time to lead the Jays in homers.

 

If you put Vlad back in AA he'd hit .370 again hammering ground balls at the future Russ Adams of the world. But in the majors he hits .280.

 

If you put Orelvis back to AA he'd hit .230 because the future Russ Adams can catch his popups fine. He'd hit .230 in the majors too

 

I mean not literally obviously, just that Orelvis 'popup' Martinez might not lose as much coming to the majors as other guys.

 

Or maybe he'd hit .160 with 30 homers... that probably helps this team nevertheless.

[gruber92]

With age comes memory loss If you've been a Jays fan that long, you've seen and been through teams that were SIGNIFICANTLY worse. This team has done lots of winning over the past 4 1/2 years. This stretch is one of their best since the 1993 season.

 

Yeah, with a $240M payroll. A monkey as our GM could average 88 wins with that payroll. Ross is not a good GM. It's not that hard to comprehend.

[Brownie19]

I'll do this because I know Jays24 can't do math.

 

Here is the W/L record and winning % for the best 4 year stretches the team has had since 1993

 

2020-2024 304 W 242 L 0.557%

2014-2017 341 W 307 L 0.526%

2005-2008 336 W 312 L 0.518%

1990-1993 368 W 280 L 0.568%

 

So - unequivocally, this recent stretch by the Jays is THE BEST 4 year run since 1990-1993. Did the team win in the playoffs? No they did not, but whether you like it or not, winning in the playoffs is almost a coin flip (which I know is a VERY difficult concept for lots of fans and people on this board) and the Jays were favored to win 2 of our 3 playoff series during that stretch. However, it is pretty clear this regime has been successful since they arrived in 2016. Is that success coming to an end? Yes, I think it probably is and we'll now go into a downturn until around 2030. This is a very typical cycle for MLB teams. It's the reality of being a fan of most MLB teams.

[Barrelsandbombs]

Selling high on IKF is an interesting idea

 

[Spanky99]

Passan is saying Jays will decide their direction over the all star break

 

 

Makes sense.

[glory]

When has Atkins ever sold high on a Major League talent? He sells high on minor league talent that end up being trash anyway, but I don’t recall a single time where a player with team control was overachieving/playing well and the team decided to sell high. Maybe I’m forgetting someone. I’m not sure IKF would have much value regardless, but even if he did, it’s more likely the team views him as 3B depth next season than a trade chip. Would be pretty slick if they could trade him and get something useful, though. I just don’t see it, both because of his trade value and because Atkins probably has no interest in doing it.

 

Jansen, Kikuchi, Garcia, Richards, Turner, KK. Those are probably the trade chips. If Atkins trades anyone controlled through 2025, then he’s become a changed man.

[Stangstag]

How much winning would people even be talking about if we didn't have expanded playoffs? Seems pretty stupid to talk about all this winning when comparing to past era's where only 4 teams made the playoffs.

 

Our best stretch of meaningful baseball since 92/93 was clearly 2015/2016 and its not even close. The only team that most people loved during the Shatkins era was 2021 and we didn't even make the playoffs that year.

 

The 2016 team was not great, barely made the PS but they did make it to the ALCS which was nice.

 

2015 was clearly the best team since the 90s. 2021 team is probably a close 2nd.

 

The 2021-2023 teams were better than the 2016 team IMO

[Spanky99]

Reading this forum is batshit crazy aids, mind you, my patience is wilting.

[Stangstag]

Selling high on IKF is an interesting idea

 

 

Man, trading all those guys would go a long way in restocking the farm system.

 

KK

Turner

IKF

Jansen

Kikuchi

Yimi

and possibly Bo/Vlad

 

Gotta think our farm could jump up like 10-15 spots in the rankings by making those moves. Tempting.

[Carlos Danger]

I'll do this because I know Jays24 can't do math.

 

Here is the W/L record and winning % for the best 4 year stretches the team has had since 1993

 

2020-2024 304 W 242 L 0.557%

2014-2017 341 W 307 L 0.526%

2005-2008 336 W 312 L 0.518%

1990-1993 368 W 280 L 0.568%

 

So - unequivocally, this recent stretch by the Jays is THE BEST 4 year run since 1990-1993. Did the team win in the playoffs? No they did not, but whether you like it or not, winning in the playoffs is almost a coin flip (which I know is a VERY difficult concept for lots of fans and people on this board) and the Jays were favored to win 2 of our 3 playoff series during that stretch. However, it is pretty clear this regime has been successful since they arrived in 2016. Is that success coming to an end? Yes, I think it probably is and we'll now go into a downturn until around 2030. This is a very typical cycle for MLB teams. It's the reality of being a fan of most MLB teams.

 

That was also when you played each team in the division 19 times a year and when the Red Sox vs Yankees were a thing and we were not competitive spenders in most of those years.

 

I think most of us gave credit to the FO for getting to the playoffs the first few years. I was even estatic about adding Varsho, Bassitt, Belt and KK last year.

 

However, after the trade deadline I lost faith in this FO and the post season and news conference plus lack of activity in the off season has 100% lost me.

 

It’s not what have you done for me 3 yrs ago, it is what have you done for me lately and how are we positioned going fwd. On both notes it is a fail.

[G-Snarls]

When has Atkins ever sold high on a Major League talent? He sells high on minor league talent that end up being trash anyway, but I don’t recall a single time where a player with team control was overachieving/playing well and the team decided to sell high. Maybe I’m forgetting someone. I’m not sure IKF would have much value regardless, but even if he did, it’s more likely the team views him as 3B depth next season than a trade chip. Would be pretty slick if they could trade him and get something useful, though. I just don’t see it, both because of his trade value and because Atkins probably has no interest in doing it.

 

Jansen, Kikuchi, Garcia, Richards, Turner, KK. Those are probably the trade chips. If Atkins trades anyone controlled through 2025, then he’s become a changed man.

 

Yeah it's sadly ironic that we don't really miss any of the top 20 Jays org prospects that he has traded away. Speaks poorly of the draft choices made in the first place.

[BigCecil]

Yeah it's sadly ironic that we don't really miss any of the top 20 Jays org prospects that he has traded away. Speaks poorly of the draft choices made in the first place.

 

Ya, obviously picks and prospects mostly don't hit, and managing those assets well to reap what value you can is not a bad thing. But the whole objective isn't to make picks you can unload for a couple years of Chappy at 2/25 etc. Gunnar was a the 19th pick overall, and we need to develop arms in house.

 

Speaking of that, SWR who came over in Stro deal traded for Berrios looks serviceable so far as a 4-5. Still early. Kind of meh underlying numbers.

[MikeM3]

"Our pitching depth is actually elite we have Francis Mitch White and Parsons"

[connorp]

Jays win a couple games against some s*** teams and we had some people believing again

[connorp]

Nobody wants IKF for 1.5 years and $11m. If someone takes him, it would be as a salary dump.

[Daniel Labude]

These players should be up the rest of the season

 

Horwitz

Orelvis

Barger

Berroa

[L54]

"Our pitching depth is actually elite we have Francis Mitch White and Parsons"

 

Stop those in quotations have endured enough

[Brownie19]

"Our pitching depth is actually elite we have Francis Mitch White and Parsons"

 

Keep making s*** up bud.

[connorp]

Someone needs to add the next White Sox series to Brownie and Max’s Outlook calendar, so they can be ready to come here and spread some sunshine in full force.

[BTS]

Someone needs to add the next White Sox series to Brownie and Max’s Outlook calendar, so they can be ready to come here and spread some sunshine in full force.

 

I'm going to start banning people for posts like this. Every time I log in it's the same 3-4 people bashing the same 2-3 people for not being 100% negative.

[BTS]

When has Atkins ever sold high on a Major League talent? He sells high on minor league talent that end up being trash anyway, but I don’t recall a single time where a player with team control was overachieving/playing well and the team decided to sell high. Maybe I’m forgetting someone. I’m not sure IKF would have much value regardless, but even if he did, it’s more likely the team views him as 3B depth next season than a trade chip. Would be pretty slick if they could trade him and get something useful, though. I just don’t see it, both because of his trade value and because Atkins probably has no interest in doing it.

 

Jansen, Kikuchi, Garcia, Richards, Turner, KK. Those are probably the trade chips. If Atkins trades anyone controlled through 2025, then he’s become a changed man.

 

The only teams that “sell high” are poor teams that need to constantly cycle talent because they can’t afford to pay them. Good teams get good players and then just keep them. Toronto should be selling because they suck, but a GM in this market will never sell good players when the team is actually good.

[max silver]

Nobody wants IKF for 1.5 years and $11m. If someone takes him, it would be as a salary dump.

 

IKF had multiple suitors in the offseason which drove up his eventual signing price. He's also on pace for a 3 win season at the moment. If he keeps it up he'll be a relative bargain all things considered so there should be little issue moving him in trade.

[connorp]

I'm going to start banning people for posts like this. Every time I log in it's the same 3-4 people bashing the same 2-3 people for not being 100% negative.

 

I’ve been so good.

 

I can actually agree the dead horse has been kicked pretty good.

[connorp]

IKF had multiple suitors in the offseason which drove up his eventual signing price. He's also on pace for a 3 win season at the moment. If he keeps it up he'll be a relative bargain all things considered so there should be little issue moving him in trade.

 

Salary

Dump