Former Blue Jays Thread

[G-Snarls]

Varsho is disappointing but he's doing juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust enough to keep hope that he could rekindle his 2022 level of production with some minor changes.

 

Agreed the D-Backs are super fun. Too bad a lot of their young pitching absolutely s*** THE BED this year. Pfaadt, Nelson, Jameson, Henry, Cecconi.

 

I mean, it's all Corbin Carroll I guess. without him they aren't that fun, haha.

 

Maybe it's the catcher

[Spanky99]

Lane Thomas just hit a GS, this is where Jonn comes in and says what might've been had we not traded him back in 2017...

[Jonn]

Lane Thomas just hit a GS, this is where Jonn comes in and says what might've been had we not traded him back in 2017...

 

He’s also 6 foot and Handsome unlike that mental midget Varsho. Listed at 5’10 he might be actually 5’8.

[Spanky99]

He’s also 6 foot and Handsome unlike that mental midget Varsho. Listed at 5’10 he might be actually 5’8.

 

Fish in a barrell.

[Stangstag]

He’s also 6 foot and Handsome unlike that mental midget Varsho. Listed at 5’10 he might be actually 5’8.

 

Reported for heightism

[G-Snarls]

To be fair to Varsho, if he was in CF all season then he’d have been more valuable overall. It would be like the DBacks acquiring Moreno and putting him at 3B. His value is tied to being a catcher, and Varsho’s is tied to being an excellent defensive CF. KK was a great signing all things considered but it was a mistake to have him and Varsho in the same OF.

 

IDK... I kinda love having 3 guys who are capable of playing CF

 

Couldn't give a s*** what it does to their WAR

 

KK was a 1 year gamble that worked out great. Varsho moves back to CF when he's gone and Springer covers it if Varsho needs a day off.

[Omar]

[jaysblue]

 

Would sign JD to a cheap one year deal if the Jays can't sign or trade for a better 3B.

[jaysblue]

Agreed, it was simply for 1 year so we're still good.

 

So you're saying Atkins should have put Varsho in CF and go after a bigger bat in LF instead of signing KK?

[Spanky99]

So you're saying Atkins should have put Varsho in CF and go after a bigger bat in LF instead of signing KK?

 

What? Neither of those moves were in succession dude, get a grip.

[jaysblue]

What? Neither of those moves were in succession dude, get a grip.

 

I said in the other thread when looking back maybe Atkins could have done a better job at improving the teams defense without sacrificing much offense and I was bombarded by you and others. Yet you just said you're giving Varsho a mulligan on this season in regards to his bat because he played mainly LF but next season since he'll be CF, it will all be good.

 

Pretty much that's what's going to happen this upcoming offseason. Varsho will move to CF and the Jays will target a more offensive minded player for LF given the offensive struggles this season. All I was saying, maybe that could have been beneficial this season if the Jays went that route.

[Spanky99]

I said in the other thread when looking back maybe Atkins could have done a better job at improving the teams defense without sacrificing much offense and I was bombarded by you and others. Yet you just said you're giving Varsho a mulligan on this season in regards to his bat because he played mainly LF but next season since he'll be CF, it will all be good.

 

Pretty much that's what's going to happen this upcoming offseason. Varsho will move to CF and the Jays will target a more offensive minded player for LF given the offensive struggles this season. All I was saying, maybe that could have been beneficial this season if the Jays went that route.

 

You're a f***ing clown if you believe that initially in your favour? You're right on the back side of this run, not... it's fun watching the rubber fence guy take his side,

lol.

[jaysblue]

You're a f***ing clown if you believe that initially in your favour? You're right on the back side of this run, not... it's fun watching the rubber fence guy take his side,

lol.

 

What are you talking about? You can't even criticize or question anything anymore these days, geez! Stop getting all worked up you dingleberry!

[Spanky99]

What are you talking about? You can't even criticize or question anything anymore these days, geez! Stop getting all worked up you dingleberry!

 

lol... my point.

[Terminator]

If the Jays make the playoffs, which I maintain are still easy to make, the Atkins haters will have to admit defeat.

 

No other GM in the league could pull that off when his star 1B becomes replacement level, a Top 3 Cy Young finisher eats his way out of the league, his All-Star UT infielder becomes a 0, his young 4 WAR catcher is worth 1.5, a 4.5 WAR CF who forgets how to hit, etc.

 

Close to worst case scenarios for several core players but the team he built was so damn good it's making the playoffs anyway.

[jaysblue]

lol... my point.

 

Hope we both meet in the Finals and I whoop your ass haha. But not looking good for me.

 

If we do, $100 bet!

[Spanky99]

Hope we both meet in the Finals and I whoop your ass haha. But not looking good for me.

 

If we do, $100 bet!

 

Yes.

[jaysblue]

If the Jays make the playoffs, which I maintain are still easy to make, the Atkins haters will have to admit defeat.

 

No other GM in the league could pull that off when his star 1B becomes replacement level, a Top 3 Cy Young finisher eats his way out of the league, his All-Star UT infielder becomes a 0, his young 4 WAR catcher is worth 1.5, a 4.5 WAR CF who forgets how to hit, etc.

 

Close to worst case scenarios for several core players but the team he built was so damn good it's making the playoffs anyway.

 

Lucky for the extra WC spots haha.

 

Criticizing or questioning some things about a GM doesn't make you a hater. I do think some posters on here glorify Atkins and this FO too much but that's alright. I don't think he's a bad GM at all, but also don't think he's been amazing given the results so far. Go back and read my posts on how many times I've said good things about him.

 

If the Jays do win the World Series this season, I will do what the Hurl promised to do if Tim Collins recorded a MLB save.

[jaysblue]

Yes.

 

Sounds good haha!

[Brownie19]

Lucky for the extra WC spots haha.

 

Criticizing or questioning some things about a GM doesn't make you a hater. I do think some posters on here glorify Atkins and this FO too much but that's alright. I don't think he's a bad GM at all, but also don't think he's been amazing given the results so far. Go back and read my posts on how many times I've said good things about him.

 

If the Jays do win the World Series this season, I will do what the Hurl promised to do if Tim Collins recorded a MLB save.

 

Funny should should say that. Along the same lines, supporting him and denouncing ignorant criticism also doesn't make you a homer...

[AMS528]

Marcus Semien leads the AL in batter bWAR and is tied for second in the AL by fWAR. Nothing about him particularly stands out, but he just does every single thing well, good baserunner, great defender, above average bat at 2B that he just racks up value.

 

He's almost at 42 bWAR, and honestly given how much bWAR he seems to rack up by just existing, he could end up at 50 WAR in two seasons from now. And I will absolutely start the Semien to HOF wagon at that point.

 

At the time I think it made sense not to resign him for the amount he got, but's he's already managed to be worth a good chunk of that contract. One of the better performing major free agent signings of recent times.

[Olerud363]

If the Jays make the playoffs, which I maintain are still easy to make, the Atkins haters will have to admit defeat.

 

No other GM in the league could pull that off when his star 1B becomes replacement level, a Top 3 Cy Young finisher eats his way out of the league, his All-Star UT infielder becomes a 0, his young 4 WAR catcher is worth 1.5, a 4.5 WAR CF who forgets how to hit, etc.

 

Close to worst case scenarios for several core players but the team he built was so damn good it's making the playoffs anyway.

 

I don't think anybody (except for total mentally handicapped) were really criticizing Atkins roster moves, more the culture, coaching and development teams that led to all the crazy fat people going from 4 WAR to 0, and the team from 100ish wins to 90ish.

 

The latter is a weird area that depending on whether the team has had a cold week or a hot week people (like myself) either over-emphasize or totally forget about.

 

If they win 89 and miss the playoffs Atkins is a god-damn beta grease ball, ruled by the corporate clown Shapiro who lost the team and the city and ruined several players careers because they allowed obesity and bad hitting mechanics to spread through the clubhouse un-checked.

 

or

 

If they win 91 and make the playoffs Atkins is a god of scouting and advanced analytics who built the best pitching and defense team in franchise history because he knew that the fat boys couldn't keep away from the buffet, so he built around them and didn't count on them for anything when he made his calculations with proprietary advanced formulas.

[jaysblue]

Funny should should say that. Along the same lines, supporting him and denouncing ignorant criticism also doesn't make you a homer...

 

You're out in full attack mode today from the looks of it haha.

[Olerud363]

Marcus Semien leads the AL in batter bWAR and is tied for second in the AL by fWAR. Nothing about him particularly stands out, but he just does every single thing well, good baserunner, great defender, above average bat at 2B that he just racks up value.

 

He's almost at 42 bWAR, and honestly given how much bWAR he seems to rack up by just existing, he could end up at 50 WAR in two seasons from now. And I will absolutely start the Semien to HOF wagon at that point.

 

At the time I think it made sense not to resign him for the amount he got, but's he's already managed to be worth a good chunk of that contract. One of the better performing major free agent signings of recent times.

 

Semien was never quite as putrid at the plate as Varsho this year... but

 

Daulton Varsho has more WAR through age 26 than Semien. Better through age 26.

Semien and Varsho's age 25 season is exactly the same on offense. Both like .300 on base percentage with 27 homers.

Semien at 26 and 27 was like Varsho at 26 except a bit more average.

 

Can we expect Varsho to become super-awesome at age 28 just because Semien did? No. But kind of interesting none the less and maybe indicative of what a defensively talented, hard worker, without crazy bad b/kk could do in late 20s if they get their swing sorted out.

 

Varsho kind of reminds me of Semien on offense. Nothing spectacular but I think you can kind of see what he'd be like with less popups and less swing at high fastballs. Same kind of power vibe. Same kind of short swing from the left side though.

[Ehjays]

 

Ex Jay against Ex Jay

[jaysblue]

Rowdy Tellez pitched in the Brewers blowout 16-1 win over the Marlins last night haha.

[AMS528]

bWAR really loves Gabriel Moreno, it also likes Varsho, but Moreno leads baseball dWAR in 105 games. 4.3 WAR overall.

 

He's up to a 106 wRC+. I think whichever of bWAR or fWAR you want to choose for it, Moreno has had the better year, and if I was going to guess the more valuable player going forward.

[Orgfiller]

bWAR really loves Gabriel Moreno, it also likes Varsho, but Moreno leads baseball dWAR in 105 games. 4.3 WAR overall.

 

He's up to a 106 wRC+. I think whichever of bWAR or fWAR you want to choose for it, Moreno has had the better year, and if I was going to guess the more valuable player going forward.

 

Moreno is a poor framer and DRS believes he's the second coming of Yadier Molina (who was, unsurprisingly, one of the best framers of all time). That's where the massive (2+ wins) difference in rWAR and fWAR are coming from. OAA still thinks he's a good defensive catcher, albeit more good than great due to the aforementioned framing issues.

 

Fun fact: Varsho is 0.4 dWAR behind Moreno, as DRS believes he's Brett Gardner in LF and Kevin Kiermaier in CF. He has 27 DRS combined, 17 of which are attributed to his CF defense - which is as much as KK has but Varsho has accrued it in half the innings.

[Brownie19]

Moreno is a poor framer and DRS believes he's the second coming of Yadier Molina (who was, unsurprisingly, one of the best framers of all time). That's where the massive (2+ wins) difference in rWAR and fWAR are coming from. OAA still thinks he's a good defensive catcher, albeit more good than great due to the aforementioned framing issues.

 

I know we've seen catchers go from being terrible framers to top notch framers in a single offseason, so unfortunately there's a good chance we traded away Yadi. I'm curious to see where he ends up with the bat. It's been a lot better this year than I expected.

[AMS528]

Moreno is a poor framer and DRS believes he's the second coming of Yadier Molina (who was, unsurprisingly, one of the best framers of all time). That's where the massive (2+ wins) difference in rWAR and fWAR are coming from. OAA still thinks he's a good defensive catcher, albeit more good than great due to the aforementioned framing issues.

 

I feel like framing is probably an area that a young catcher can improve with time. His athleticism is helping him in terms of the rest. He's been a terrible baserunner this year, but he grades out as an average sprinter so he probably won't be as bad as he's been this year. All of that makes me believe he really is going to be a 4-5 WAR catcher by whatever measure you choose going into the future, possibly for a long time.

 

He's got a real shot based on some of these factors to be truly great if he develops any more power at all.

 

Although to caution things here, Kirk last year would have had one of the best 23 year old catcher seasons ever. Moreno is not severely out of shape, so he's got that going for him in terms of his potential though.