Around Baseball 2023

[Omar]

hoping to see Phillies win this year. Because I have rooted against these AL teams alot more this year, I hate most of them. Don't mind Phillies. Would be nice to see Dodgers win a World Series too I guess since its been like 35 years or something. Brewers too. If it has to be AL, I guess Seattle or Tampa.

 

 

...

[AMS528]

speaking of culture.....

 

While the Braves were celebrating their NL title, Snitker interviewed on the field thanked everyone in the organization from the top to the bottom .....including the interns "sitting at their computers...."

 

You don't create this kind of culture overnight

 

Six straight division championships, all under AA. I think the first couple of years you could have said he hadn't built that team and had walked into the wins, but he has gotten the Braves right up there with the Astros and Dodgers now as the most consistently great teams in MLB.

[Olerud363]

Six straight division championships, all under AA. I think the first couple of years you could have said he hadn't built that team and had walked into the wins, but he has gotten the Braves right up there with the Astros and Dodgers now as the most consistently great teams in MLB.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/julio-rodriguez/23697/stats?position=OF

 

Fully functional superstar, physically and mentally happy and healthy, performing, signed for the next 15 years. f*** SHAPIRO., THIS IS WHAT HIS f***ING JOB IS AND HE FAILED.

 

1. Julio Rodriquez, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette are both human beings and assets for a baseball club.

 

2. As some people point out it is narcissistic for us to think that they are just there for our entertainment, they are human beings with their own struggles.

 

3. HOWEVER, that being said, the management of a baseball club has a job to develop those human beings, into healthy, happy productive adult baseball players. This duty serves the interest of both the players and the fans.

 

4. Shapiro has failed in this miserably and should offer his resignation after tonight's loss, which will occur because a functional baseball team, of functional baseball adults has spent the last month preparing to tell the difference between Gaussman's splitter and fastball.

 

f*** YOU SHAPIRO YOU SOULESS, UGLY, CORPORATE PIECE OF GARBAGE THAT CARES NOTHING OF THE FANS OR THE CITY. YOU HAVE FAILED ALL OF US INCLUDING THE PLAYERS.

 

And congratulations to the Seattle Mariners and Atlanta Braves for producing fully functional baseball players signed to long term contracts who will be part of the cities fabric for a generation.

[Krylian]

Six straight division championships, all under AA. I think the first couple of years you could have said he hadn't built that team and had walked into the wins, but he has gotten the Braves right up there with the Astros and Dodgers now as the most consistently great teams in MLB.

 

Always loved AA and still do. I generally very much like his approach.

[Olerud363]

speaking of culture.....

 

While the Braves were celebrating their NL title, Snitker interviewed on the field thanked everyone in the organization from the top to the bottom .....including the interns "sitting at their computers...."

 

You don't create this kind of culture overnight

 

 

One of the stupid things going around some circles is that the Blue Jays are too 'analytical' when in fact the opposite is likely true at least with respect to other teams and how to get information to the field.

 

That quote is everything... thanking the interns on the computers?? Obviously there is a large team collecting information, and that information get's to Snitker.

 

Example in point, tonight we will lose with Gausman and the best pitch in baseball on the mound.

 

That is because the interns on the computers spent the last month in the video room preparing how to recognize the pitch, and will get the information to the coach's and the players in an actionable form. So hopefully the Rangers thank the intern's for tonight's win as they essentially clinch a playoff spot.

[BigCecil]

Always loved AA and still do. I generally very much like his approach.

 

Same. Rarely gets the credit he deserves IMO for revitalizing this franchise after 20 years in the wilderness. Doing it all over again in Atlanta with one ring in the bag already.

[Krylian]

Julian Merryweather threw 52.2IP in his entire Blue Jays career....he's at 65IP with the Cubs this season. LOL

[BTS]

Always loved AA and still do. I generally very much like his approach.

 

His approach now doesn't even remotely resemble his approach here.

[Olerud363]

Same. Rarely gets the credit he deserves IMO for revitalizing this franchise after 20 years in the wilderness. Doing it all over again in Atlanta with one ring in the bag already.

 

Ironically 2015 was the ultimate 'old school' Bill James 1987 baseball abstract, or late 90s Oakland As style team in Blue Jays history.

 

Only team in Blue Jays history (I believe) to lead league in walks.

 

The team was built using every strategy known to man. Old players, Young Players, trades, farm system, deadline trades, free agents. Savy waiver pickups.

 

At the beginning the gave jobs to Osuna, Sanchez, Castro, Dalton Pompey, Devon Travis, Kevin Pillar and Ryan Goins. Some failed but what a f***ing commitment to young talent.

 

He signed a big free agent named Russell Martin - who's old school (.400 on base percentage year before) and new school (pitch framing) analytic stats were the highest ever for a Blue Jays free agent.

 

He made a big trade for another (Donaldson) who was both an old school on base slugger and a new school defensive analytics darling.

 

He made long term commitments to big guys who got the f*** on base (EE and Bautista)

 

He corrected past mistakes (commitments to the track team)

 

This is why I think AA cares, and Shapiro Atkins don't. The 2015 team was made because AA worked 22 hours a day digesting every source of baseball information and human psychology known to man, from the 1985 Bill James abstract to the Illiad to the latest proprietary analytics reports.

 

And Shapiro the coorporate grease ball basically demeaned and fired AA. That tells you everything you need to know about Shapiro as a human being.

 

Shapiro/Atkins now go home at 5:00 to watch Silo and Virgin River season 5 respectively while AA works, and works, and works and works and works.,

[Brownie19]

His approach now doesn't even remotely resemble his approach here.

 

That's quite true. I love AA, but he was certainly still learning the craft while in TO. Smart guy though - went to LA, learned from that FO for a bit, before stepping into a perfect situation where he inherited a team is a great position. Kudos to him that he's been able to sustain success and brought home a championship.

[glory]

Six straight division championships, all under AA. I think the first couple of years you could have said he hadn't built that team and had walked into the wins, but he has gotten the Braves right up there with the Astros and Dodgers now as the most consistently great teams in MLB.

 

Yeah AA inherited quite a bit but his fingerprints are all over that roster now, either in terms of contracts, homegrown players, trades, etc. No one can question his work at this point, he’s one of the best in the game.

 

With that said, as others have mentioned, he’s not the same guy now as he was in 2010-15. Without those two years with the Dodgers, I’m not sure he turns into this type of executive. Although, in hindsight, I do wish he stayed on post 2015. Having seen how Atkins rebuilt this team, I am curious how 2015-16 AA would have done the rebuild.

[L54]

Ironically 2015 was the ultimate 'old school' Bill James 1987 baseball abstract, or late 90s Oakland As style team in Blue Jays history.

 

Only team in Blue Jays history (I believe) to lead league in walks.

 

The team was built using every strategy known to man. Old players, Young Players, trades, farm system, deadline trades, free agents. Savy waiver pickups.

 

At the beginning the gave jobs to Osuna, Sanchez, Castro, Dalton Pompey, Devon Travis, Kevin Pillar and Ryan Goins. Some failed but what a f***ing commitment to young talent.

 

He signed a big free agent named Russell Martin - who's old school (.400 on base percentage year before) and new school (pitch framing) analytic stats were the highest ever for a Blue Jays free agent.

 

He made a big trade for another (Donaldson) who was both an old school on base slugger and a new school defensive analytics darling.

 

He made long term commitments to big guys who got the f*** on base (EE and Bautista)

 

He corrected past mistakes (commitments to the track team)

 

This is why I think AA cares, and Shapiro Atkins don't. The 2015 team was made because AA worked 22 hours a day digesting every source of baseball information and human psychology known to man, from the 1985 Bill James abstract to the Illiad to the latest proprietary analytics reports.

 

And Shapiro the coorporate grease ball basically demeaned and fired AA. That tells you everything you need to know about Shapiro as a human being.

 

Shapiro/Atkins now go home at 5:00 to watch Silo and Virgin River season 5 respectively while AA works, and works, and works and works and works.,

 

Man I love your posts

[John_Havok]

Yeah AA inherited quite a bit but his fingerprints are all over that roster now, either in terms of contracts, homegrown players, trades, etc. No one can question his work at this point, he’s one of the best in the game.

 

With that said, as others have mentioned, he’s not the same guy now as he was in 2010-15. Without those two years with the Dodgers, I’m not sure he turns into this type of executive. Although, in hindsight, I do wish he stayed on post 2015. Having seen how Atkins rebuilt this team, I am curious how 2015-16 AA would have done the rebuild.

 

It's likely AA would have started the rebuild the same way he did the first time. That part was fine

[keggy]

And Shapiro the coorporate grease ball basically demeaned and fired AA. That tells you everything you need to know about Shapiro as a human being.

 

The icing on the cake is that Atkins has turned the organization into exactly the same bloated payroll with bottom tier farm system that Shapiro yelled at AA about. Except he at least constructed the best team in baseball before he left.

[leaffie]

I didnt like the hiring at the time and said so. Shapiro and Atkins had little success in Cleveland until finally they lucked into playoffs in one of the worst divisions.

 

I thought AA should have been given the chance to do the rebuild, but Shapiro promised a new wave of talent every year with constant playoff appearances.

 

As each year has come and gone, none of those promises have materialized. Everyone that is on this board obviously loves the jays, and now have reached the point, that the team just even getting to the playoffs is the goal.

 

Not what we were promised.

 

Shapiro’s goal is and has always been to get to the commissioner’s chair. He is a businessman, not a baseball man.

 

I watch a lot of baseball, not just the Jays, and there are lots of teams that are very likeable, and this team just isnt one of them, and Atkins did nothing to fix it.

 

Unfortunately, as a fan that saw the first game, and all the struggles before the world series wins, and everything since, I am old and may not make it long enough to see this team repaired and it makes me sad.

 

I could go on about what should have been done, but it would just be my opinion and we all know what opinions are worth. But I think the biggest mistake this team ever made was losing AA.

 

 

 

 

promised

[BigCecil]

Yeah AA inherited quite a bit but his fingerprints are all over that roster now, either in terms of contracts, homegrown players, trades, etc. No one can question his work at this point, he’s one of the best in the game.

 

With that said, as others have mentioned, he’s not the same guy now as he was in 2010-15. Without those two years with the Dodgers, I’m not sure he turns into this type of executive. Although, in hindsight, I do wish he stayed on post 2015. Having seen how Atkins rebuilt this team, I am curious how 2015-16 AA would have done the rebuild.

 

 

- Going all in on international money to sign Vlad.

 

- The trade for JD with the control he had.

 

- Under market extensions for Edwin and Jose.

 

- Aggressive at the deadline in TOR 15 and 16.

 

These are the same sort of things he is doing/did in ATL. Is he more experienced now? Of course. Did he do some weak deals? Sure. He still is.

 

But the moves he made to add Soler, Rosario and Pederson at the '21 deadline he said he learned from time in TOR when Bautista went public calling him out for not adding at the deadline in TOR pre 2015. Most thought ATL had no chance for the World Series in 2021 losing Acuna Jr, Ozuna and Soroka, and that they would sell. Did they get hot at the right time? Sure. But without those adds the championship doesn't happen.

[Omar]

Man I love your posts

 

I can't tell if Olerud363 is serious or trolling?

[L54]

I can't tell if Olerud363 is serious or trolling?

 

Both and that’s what makes his posts great

[jaysblue]

Yeah I don't agree that AA is only good now because he learned from being in the Dodgers organization for a couple of years.

 

Yes with experience, most do gain more knowledge and get better.

 

AA did a lot of great things in Toronto. He built back the farm system. Made some big trades that worked out and some that didn't. He locked up two core players in Bautista and EE to very team friendly extensions. Made some big trade deadline deals that turned this team into a legit World Series contender. He made baseball relevant again in Toronto.

 

We could say Shapiro and Atkins walked into a good situation which they did. Baseball was extremely popular again here, they had a World Series contending team in 2016 and even believed they were competitive in 2017 before the injuries.

[Ray]

Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom

 

Wow

[Stangstag]

Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom

 

Wow

 

Very odd timing

[Brownie19]

- Going all in on international money to sign Vlad.

 

- The trade for JD with the control he had.

 

- Under market extensions for Edwin and Jose.

 

- Aggressive at the deadline in TOR 15 and 16.

 

These are the same sort of things he is doing/did in ATL. Is he more experienced now? Of course. Did he do some weak deals? Sure. He still is.

 

But the moves he made to add Soler, Rosario and Pederson at the '21 deadline he said he learned from time in TOR when Bautista went public calling him out for not adding at the deadline in TOR pre 2015. Most thought ATL had no chance for the World Series in 2021 losing Acuna Jr, Ozuna and Soroka, and that they would sell. Did they get hot at the right time? Sure. But without those adds the championship doesn't happen.

 

I have to think the output by those 3 had about a 5-10% probability of happening. All 3 were sub 92 wRC+ hitters when the Braves traded for them. Soler and Rosario put up wRC+'s above 130 after the trade and of course all 3 came up huge in the playoffs. There was probably a 90% chance those 3 came in and did jack s*** to help the team and they missed the playoffs. It's a great example of how much luck and timing is involved in baseball.

 

DeJong was having a better season than Soler, Roserio and Pederson at the time we acquired him. Could you imagine if he was pumping a 135 wRC+ right now? Even Jordan Luplow is hitting well for the Twins right now and was batting cleanup for them. That said, we do have our own version of the Braves 3 acquisitions on the team right now in Schneider, Horwitz and Clement. We're getting way more out of them than anyone would have expected. If we sneak into the playoffs like the 2021 Braves and those 3 play pivotal roles on our way to a deep playoff run - will the FO get kudos for adding them to the team also?

 

I would probably argue that neither AA or Atkins would deserve a ton of credit - besides the fact they had, or acquired more 'depth' and gave themselves a higher chance of striking gold. At the end of the day, they will have hit the ace on the river when there was a 10% chance of winning the hand.

[Ray]

I’m like 90% confident that James Click will go to Boston now

[Grant77]

I hope the new GM gets rid of Alex Cora and he gets blackballed, informally getting the ban from MLB that he deserves.

[Spanky99]

Six straight division championships, all under AA. I think the first couple of years you could have said he hadn't built that team and had walked into the wins, but he has gotten the Braves right up there with the Astros and Dodgers now as the most consistently great teams in MLB.

 

He's learned a lot since his days here in the T Dot, and he was a good GM then, freakin' Ninja at loop holes and contract extensions is still his forte. Very good baseball exec.

[BTS]

Bloom was an absolute failure in Boston. Terrible tenure. Good on them for cutting bait after only 4 years.

[Stangstag]

I’m like 90% confident that James Click will go to Boston now

 

f***

[BTS]

He's learned a lot since his days here in the T Dot, and he was a good GM then, freakin' Ninja at loop holes and contract extensions is still his forte. Very good baseball exec.

 

He's still good at the same things he was good at here, but he now also values financial flexibility. It's unfathomable to think of current AA trading for 30+ year olds on long-term FA contracts.

[Olerud363]

I can't tell if Olerud363 is serious or trolling?

 

I've gone all in on the narrative that while smart enough, Shapiro and Atkins have no real connection to the city or passion for the team, and do not have the obsessive work ethic of other front office executives.

 

Win or lose they have no emotional reaction. AA on the other hand is devastated by each win or loss, each success and failure.

 

I didn't believe this at all until this season, but it now makes sense to me. Something is just missing from this organization. Some personal touch. Not trolling, at this moment this is the explanation that makes sense. Maybe just emotionally burnt out on this team, so my judgement is not too good right now.

[glory]

- Going all in on international money to sign Vlad.

 

- The trade for JD with the control he had.

 

- Under market extensions for Edwin and Jose.

 

- Aggressive at the deadline in TOR 15 and 16.

 

These are the same sort of things he is doing/did in ATL. Is he more experienced now? Of course. Did he do some weak deals? Sure. He still is.

 

But the moves he made to add Soler, Rosario and Pederson at the '21 deadline he said he learned from time in TOR when Bautista went public calling him out for not adding at the deadline in TOR pre 2015. Most thought ATL had no chance for the World Series in 2021 losing Acuna Jr, Ozuna and Soroka, and that they would sell. Did they get hot at the right time? Sure. But without those adds the championship doesn't happen.

 

He showed glimpses with the Jays, but he wasn’t a finished product yet (see the Marlins trade, Dickey trade, etc). He really took off after leaving the Dodgers, and he hasn’t been making any of the mistakes he made while here. Even the big trades he made with the Braves that involved prospects were basically rehashes of the Donaldson deal where he traded prospect depth for a star (Olson, Murphy). Nothing close to the Dickey trade or anything like that.

 

The other aspect is that Beeston didn’t want deals exceeding 5 years so that limited what AA could do, and Rogers likely has different expectations than other owners. Plus it’s easier to get the Morton’s of the world to sign in Atlanta than Toronto so he has that advantage. Not quite apples to apples. Either way he went from good in Toronto to elite with the Braves.