The Blue Jays sign Kevin Kiermaier

[Jonn]

KK is just as likely to make a difference with a game-saving defensive play as Teo is to hit a big homerun

 

The jury is out on whether not Kiermaier will even be at the same level of CF as he has been through his age 33 and 34 seasons. He’s coming off a pretty substantial injury plus aging.

[connorp]

KK is definitely good for subbing in as late inning replacement. Not many that will argue that. Definitely an improvement from Tapa and Zimmer, so there’s that

[Captain_Obvious]

What’s funny? We would probably have to add in a top five prospect plus top 10 prospect to get that done

 

I don't know if you're serious. If you are, you must be the son of Dave Stewart after he f***ed himself and gave birth.

[JaysAllMighty]

KK is definitely good for subbing in as late inning replacement. Not many that will argue that. Definitely an improvement from Tapa and Zimmer, so there’s that

 

Ya, they didn't acquiring him for that.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't know if you're serious. If you are, you must be the son of Dave Stewart after he f***ed himself and gave birth.

 

I think you are seriously overvaluing Jansen or undervaluing Happ... Not sure if you are serious..??

[Laika]

I’m starting to get very excited for the Kevin Kiermaier 4 WAR revenge season

[Laika]

Kevin Kiermaier will have more WAR than Teoscar Hernandez this year

 

Quote this

[Spanky99]

Kiermaier suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx... good D though, sign Conforto now, Ross.

[Spanky99]

We rostered Tapia all year last season, so KK should be better than that at least.

 

Another corner OF lefty bat would be nice though

 

You just mentioned him...

[Ray]

Have the terms come out yet? Odd that it's day-old news and the contract details haven't been revealed.

 

Wondering if they are being extra cautious in revealing the details until he passes the physical.

[G-Snarls]

Kevin Kiermaier will have more WAR than Teoscar Hernandez this year

 

Quote this

 

Done

 

And I hope it comes true

[BTS]

What’s funny? We would probably have to add in a top five prospect plus top 10 prospect to get that done

 

If that's true they shouldn't be targeting Happ. Happ is a mediocre corner OF with one year of control left. Chicago should be adding to him for Jansen.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't know if you're serious. If you are, you must be the son of Dave Stewart after he f***ed himself and gave birth.

 

Happ was worth 4.4 WAR in 2022, Jansen was worth 2.9. Happ is a switch hitter who can play any OF position and various IF positions and plays everyday. They are both 27 yrs old.

[Captain_Obvious]

I think you are seriously overvaluing Jansen or undervaluing Happ... Not sure if you are serious..??

 

Jesus Christ. Let's see.

 

Player 1:

140wRC+, 2.6 WAR over 248 PA last season (5.8 WAR per 550 PA), 4 WAR over 454 PA in the past two seasons (Avg 4.9 WAR per 550 PA). 2 Seasons of club control. 27 years old.

 

Player 2:

120wRC+, 3.5 WAR over 641 PA last season (3 WAR per 550 PA), 4.7 WAR over over 1176 PA in the past two seasons (Avg 2.5 WAR per 550 PA). 1 season of club control. 28 years old.

 

 

Yet, somehow, you think player 2 is far superior to player 1 in terms of value.

[connorp]

Ya, they didn't acquiring him for that.

 

No they did not. Agreed

[connorp]

I’m starting to get very excited for the Kevin Kiermaier 4 WAR revenge season

 

Bookmarked this bitch

[Carlos Danger]

Jesus Christ. Let's see.

 

Player 1:

140wRC+, 2.6 WAR over 248 PA last season (5.8 WAR per 550 PA), 4 WAR over 454 PA in the past two seasons (Avg 4.9 WAR per 550 PA). 2 Seasons of club control. 27 years old.

 

Player 2:

120wRC+, 3.5 WAR over 641 PA last season (3 WAR per 550 PA), 4.7 WAR over over 1176 PA in the past two seasons (Avg 2.5 WAR per 550 PA). 1 season of club control. 28 years old.

 

 

Yet, somehow, you think player 2 is far superior to player 1 in terms of value.

 

Yea, because you are extrapolating a catcher as if he is going to play every day and that Jansen is going to sustain that... The answer is No and No.

 

Your WAR is based on extrapolating ABs. My WAR in the previous post is real life and actually what occurred.

 

4.4 for Happ vs 2.9 for Jansen.

 

Jansen will be 28 a week into the season. His birthday is April.

 

Jansen has one more year of control. Nothing you said means we would get Happ PLUS for Jansen.

[Grant77]

Jesus Christ. Let's see.

 

Player 1:

140wRC+, 2.6 WAR over 248 PA last season (5.8 WAR per 550 PA), 4 WAR over 454 PA in the past two seasons (Avg 4.9 WAR per 550 PA). 2 Seasons of club control. 27 years old.

 

Player 2:

120wRC+, 3.5 WAR over 641 PA last season (3 WAR per 550 PA), 4.7 WAR over over 1176 PA in the past two seasons (Avg 2.5 WAR per 550 PA). 1 season of club control. 28 years old.

 

 

Yet, somehow, you think player 2 is far superior to player 1 in terms of value.

 

I think you are correct that Jansen is as valuable as Happ, if not more. He's a better player with more control, no doubt about that, but the injury concerns even it out.

[Spanky99]

All of you people complaining are going to change your tune pretty quick when that beautiful steely-gazed lion runs 60 feet to jump in front of a camped Gurriel on routine fly and guns down a runner tagging from 3B.

 

lol... Arozarena just loved that.

[Spanky99]

If we consider this the bookend of the Teo trade...

 

Teoscar Hernandez (15M) gone

 

Kiermeier (12M) + Possible back end pen for 1.5M and a prospect in.

 

 

Defense = better, pen = better, offense=worse.

 

 

Are the Jays overall better, worse... or is this a push?

 

That's a fine outcome, there's more to come. People stressing up in this bitch.

[Captain_Obvious]

Yea, because you are extrapolating a catcher as if he is going to play every day and that Jansen is going to sustain that... The answer is No and No.

 

Your WAR is based on extrapolating ABs. My WAR in the previous post is real life and actually what occurred.

 

4.4 for Happ vs 2.9 for Jansen.

 

Jansen will be 28 a week into the season. His birthday is April.

 

Jansen has one more year of control. Nothing you said means we would get Happ PLUS for Jansen.

 

1- wRC+ is not catcher specific.

2- Fangraphs has Happ at 3.5 WAR not 4.4 WAR.

3- Jansen is far more productive in the games he plays than Happ is.

4- Jansen is not less valuable just because Kirk and Moreno are on the team.

5- Jansen's statcast profile is far better than Happ's over the past two seasons. As a matter of fact, Happ's was significantly lucky and produced much higher wOBA than xwOBA. Jansen's actual numbers were slightly lower than his statcast expectations.

5- None of Jansen's injuries are chronic and there is little reason to expect him to miss the same amount of time.

 

All of the above mean that Jansen is superior player.

[Spanky99]

The terms are not revealed yet

 

But TheHurl would know. He plays cribbage with Ross.

 

Bwahahaha...

[Carlos Danger]

1- wRC+ is not catcher specific.

2- Fangraphs has Happ at 3.5 WAR not 4.4 WAR.

3- Jansen is far more productive in the games he plays than Happ is.

4- Jansen is not less valuable just because Kirk and Moreno are on the team.

5- Jansen's statcast profile is far better than Happ's over the past two seasons. As a matter of fact, Happ's was significantly lucky and produced much higher wOBA than xwOBA. Jansen's actual numbers were slightly lower than his statcast expectations.

5- None of Jansen's injuries are chronic and there is little reason to expect him to miss the same amount of time.

 

All of the above mean that Jansen is superior player.

 

I am using Baseball Reference which has 4.4 WAR for Happ.

 

Regardless. They might do a Jansen for Happ trade. The point of contention is you saying Jansen would get Happ plus. Or that Jansen in the real world is so much more valuable then Happ.

 

Just the fact Happ is a switch hitter and we need a left handed hitting bat is extremely valuable to the Jays. Plus the fact he can play multiple positions both OF and IF.

[Omar]

Kevin Kiermaier will have more WAR than Teoscar Hernandez this year

Quote this

 

[Stangstag]

Kevin Kiermaier will have more WAR than Teoscar Hernandez this year

 

Quote this

 

Oooh, spicy prediction

[Stangstag]

I am using Baseball Reference which has 4.4 WAR for Happ.

 

Regardless. They might do a Jansen for Happ trade. The point of contention is you saying Jansen would get Happ plus. Or that Jansen in the real world is so much more valuable then Happ.

 

Just the fact Happ is a switch hitter and we need a left handed hitting bat is extremely valuable to the Jays. Plus the fact he can play multiple positions both OF and IF.

 

We don’t use bWAR around here

[BTS]

We don’t use bWAR around here

 

This is the closest I’ve ever come to banning Carlos

[Carlos Danger]

We don’t use bWAR around here

 

The WAR is v2.2...????

 

Version 2.2

Based on discussions with FanGraphs and others, we decided to drop the replacement level to .294 from .320. This means that 2013 MLB has 1000 WAR in the entire major leagues. This was applied retroactively, so that it was applied to all previous AL, NL, and NA seasons. Other Major Leagues (AA, UA, PL, FL) were maintained at the same level relative to the NL.

 

After the positional adjustment was applied we forced the major league average to be zero across the league.

 

A small amount of smoothing was done to transition between decade-long league-vs-league replacement levels.

 

Fangraphs has a top 100 hitters list which posted 12/07/22. There are other catchers in the top 100. Happ is in the top 100, Jansen is not. Using a purely Fangraphs overall assessment.

[InsideThePark]

I would say Jansen has more value that Happ. It's not a ton more but the extra year is absolutely relevant. Even if Happ is twice the player(He's not, I'd contest they're pretty even given Jansen plays a more important position) Jansen has twice the control. The plus would absolutely be in our favour. How good the plus would be could be argued for sure.

[Eat My Shatkins]

That baseball trade value site has Jansen/Happ median value set at:

 

Jansen 24.9

Happ 14.9

 

FWIW