Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Spanky99]

That's great news for how the rest of free agency can go. Texas f***ed up free agency by giving out the contracts they did. Like I've been saying all along, I am extremely confident that we will be adding a difference maker in the infield.

 

Now I'm curious if we could have signed Syndargard and gotten Gausman because that would put us in the mix for the remaining starters out there.

 

The gas man and Synder was obviously a done deal, if they could.

[z3r0s]

With the Seager news I can only imagine that means the Jays are in on Story, which I love. I've always been a big fan of his game and coming off a down year with the bat it's not a bad time to target him (which was likely BABIP driven, and he still had a 3.5 WAR season). Only a year and a half older than Seager, and has been WAY more durable.

 

I'm still hoping (irrationally) that he'll take a Semien deal for 1 year to rebuild the value heading into next FA

[wilko]

With the Seager news I can only imagine that means the Jays are in on Story, which I love. I've always been a big fan of his game and coming off a down year with the bat it's not a bad time to target him (which was likely BABIP driven, and he still had a 3.5 WAR season). Only a year and a half older than Seager, and has been WAY more durable.

 

I'm still hoping (irrationally) that he'll take a Semien deal for 1 year to rebuild the value heading into next FA

 

 

[The_DH]

Are there any players currently under an expensive contract and for whom the team may need to trade, that we might be interested in acquiring? For example Josh Donaldson (though not necessarily him).

[wilko]

I don't know if we're interested but the Reds probably have no desire to continue rostering Suarez or Moustakas and they're operating like both a broke and dumb team right now so who knows what they would include.

 

I also wonder what the Nats would do to get rid of Soto.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Maybe if they Jays can still land Correa or Story they plan on executing a major blockbuster trade?

 

Something along the lines of Bo Bichette, Alejandro Kirk, Orelvis Martinez, Nate Pearson to the Guardians for Shane Bieber, Jose Ramirez, Franmil Reyes

[Brownie19]

Maybe if they Jays can still land Correa or Story they plan on executing a major blockbuster trade?

 

Something along the lines of Bo Bichette, Alejandro Kirk, Orelvis Martinez, Nate Pearson to the Guardians for Shane Bieber, Jose Ramirez, Franmil Reyes

 

f*** NO.

 

That is all.

[Ryu In My House]

Maybe if they Jays can still land Correa or Story they plan on executing a major blockbuster trade?

 

Something along the lines of Bo Bichette, Alejandro Kirk, Orelvis Martinez, Nate Pearson to the Guardians for Shane Bieber, Jose Ramirez, Franmil Reyes

 

I am old enough to remember the Fernandez/McGriff for Alomar/Carter. Man, that was a crazy trade. So many fans were livid.

[The_DH]

I am old enough to remember the Fernandez/McGriff for Alomar/Carter. Man, that was a crazy trade. So many fans were livid.

 

I remember that trade. That was huge.

[Ryu In My House]

I remember that trade. That was huge.

 

I heard it on the radio as I was driving on the highway and had to pull over.

[The_DH]

I heard it on the radio as I was driving on the highway and had to pull over.

 

I was on Keele St in Toronto by York University. Driving south. That stuck in my mind.

[Eat My Shatkins]

f*** NO.

 

That is all.

 

Haha

 

I was just going off the earlier assumption where people thought maybe the Jays were chasing Seager because they think down the road one of the core guys is going to test free agency rather than commit long term to the Jays.

 

That'd be a hell of a line up for next season though.

 

C - Jansen

1B - Vlad

2B - Biggio

3B - Ramirez

SS - Correa/Story

LF - Gurriel

CF - SPringer

RF - Teo

DH - Reyes

 

Moreno still in the pipeline making his debut at some point

 

And a rotation of:

 

Bieber

Berrios

Gausman

Manoah

Ryu

 

 

f***, that'd be outstanding.

[Hipfan]

I was on Keele St in Toronto by York University. Driving south. That stuck in my mind.

 

I read about it in the newspaper.

[Hipfan]

Haha

 

I was just going off the earlier assumption where people thought maybe the Jays were chasing Seager because they think down the road one of the core guys is going to test free agency rather than commit long term to the Jays.

 

That'd be a hell of a line up for next season though.

 

C - Jansen

1B - Vlad

2B - Biggio

3B - Ramirez

SS - Correa/Story

LF - Gurriel

CF - SPringer

RF - Teo

DH - Reyes

 

Moreno still in the pipeline making his debut at some point

 

And a rotation of:

 

Bieber

Berrios

Gausman

Manoah

Ryu

 

 

f***, that'd be outstanding.

 

Ryu goes from our #1 to #5 in 2 years. Don’t know if that means he’s falling off a cliff or the Jays depth is dramatically better. Probably a little of both.

[Grant77]

Ryu goes from our #1 to #5 in 2 years. Don’t know if that means he’s falling off a cliff or the Jays depth is dramatically better. Probably a little of both.

 

Falling off a cliff is a bit dramatic, but it's puzzling what happened to him in 2021. He was quite consistent with velocity, command, and results throughout the season. He just lost a tick off of his K rate and gave up more home runs. Hopefully he can make an adjustment.

[max silver]

Falling off a cliff is a bit dramatic, but it's puzzling what happened to him in 2021. He was quite consistent with velocity, command, and results throughout the season. He just lost a tick off of his K rate and gave up more home runs. Hopefully he can make an adjustment.

 

To me it looked like Ryu's command really got worse as the season progressed as he was missing in the middle of the plate far too often. He simply doesn't have the raw stuff to get away with poor command in the strike zone. It has been suggested by the team that he is going to need to have more rest baked in over the course of the season to keep him fresh. I think it might be high time he started to take his conditioning more seriously.

[wilko]

Falling off a cliff is a bit dramatic, but it's puzzling what happened to him in 2021. He was quite consistent with velocity, command, and results throughout the season. He just lost a tick off of his K rate and gave up more home runs. Hopefully he can make an adjustment.

 

Might need to start one and skip 2.

[John_Havok]

Falling off a cliff is a bit dramatic, but it's puzzling what happened to him in 2021. He was quite consistent with velocity, command, and results throughout the season. He just lost a tick off of his K rate and gave up more home runs. Hopefully he can make an adjustment.

 

It's hard to really see what changed, other than ever single one of his pitches got hit harder than previous years. There's some usage changes for sure, but spin rates were in line with previous year. Whiff rates on the cutter and change were way off though.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by John_Havok

[Jimcanuck]

No sticky f'ed Ryu's command

[John Balkabella]

I’d like to see Ryu drop a few pounds.

[Grant77]

No sticky f'ed Ryu's command

 

There wasn't a significant change in Ryu's spin rates or general profile after the sticky stuff ban from what I can see. That could be part of it, but he was having some troubles before the ban.

[Stangstag]

Maybe if they Jays can still land Correa or Story they plan on executing a major blockbuster trade?

 

Something along the lines of Bo Bichette, Alejandro Kirk, Orelvis Martinez, Nate Pearson to the Guardians for Shane Bieber, Jose Ramirez, Franmil Reyes

 

Hey don’t steal my trade idea

[saskjayfan]

To me it looked like Ryu's command really got worse as the season progressed as he was missing in the middle of the plate far too often. He simply doesn't have the raw stuff to get away with poor command in the strike zone. It has been suggested by the team that he is going to need to have more rest baked in over the course of the season to keep him fresh. I think it might be high time he started to take his conditioning more seriously.

 

I hope he does take his conditioning more seriously, but in 2020 guys pitched 70 innings. Ryu wasn't the only pitcher who ran out of gas in 2021.

[Ryu In My House]

I’d like to see Ryu drop a few pounds.

 

Unless you want to date him, why?

[Jays24]

Hey don’t steal my trade idea

 

Why give up all that when all we have to do is spend cash in free agency? Unless you're saying we give up all that just so Ramirez and Bieber can walk out the door once they fit free agency.

[Jays24]

Unless you want to date him, why?

 

For one, it could probably help with his durability issues. Dude gets treated with kid gloves because he's probably never worked out in his life lol.

 

Look at what getting in shape did for Ray. It wasn't a coincidence that he had his best season in a year he took his body seriously.

[Stangstag]

Why give up all that when all we have to do is spend cash in free agency? Unless you're saying we give up all that just so Ramirez and Bieber can walk out the door once they fit free agency.

 

Because payroll/budget isn’t infinite and Ramirez and Bieber are 2 excellent players?

[Stangstag]

For one, it could probably help with his durability issues. Dude gets treated with kid gloves because he's probably never worked out in his life lol.

 

Look at what getting in shape did for Ray. It wasn't a coincidence that he had his best season in a year he took his body seriously.

 

For every Robbie Ray there’s a CC Sabathia (who pitched worse when he got into better shape)

[glory]

Why give up all that when all we have to do is spend cash in free agency? Unless you're saying we give up all that just so Ramirez and Bieber can walk out the door once they fit free agency.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is expanded playoffs is almost certainly going to happen (either 12 teams or 14 teams). In the normal 10 team format, maybe going for a grand slam trade to build a short term monster (especially in the AL East) would have made some sense, but I don't think it will after the CBA is finalized. It's going to be a bit easier to build a sustainable contender with more playoff spots, and the only time to really worry about going "all in" in a 12-14 team playoff format would be at the trade deadline when adding incremental wins to avoid a WC round would make a huge difference (assuming top seed gets a bye to the DS).

 

Trading for Ramirez is fine. Don't have to do an Alomar/Carter redux though. Trade for Ramirez, sign a LHB like Brad Miller to DH against RHP, and they are likely set offensively while still having money left over to sign another SP.

[Jays24]

Because payroll/budget isn’t infinite and Ramirez and Bieber are 2 excellent players?

 

I get the excellent players part but if we're not able to re-sign them after their current contracts, it doesn't make much sense to lose all that control of someone like Bo. And if you're going to try to re-sign them then might as well use that money in free agency first.

 

We're trying to sustain our winning and not just go for it in a 2 year window. Thats all I was trying to say.