Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Grant77]

It appears that we may have a 3 year offer out to Yusel Kikuchi. How does everyone feel about that?

 

The 95 mph fastball from the left side is certainly interesting. If Pete Walker sees something then I would be comfortable with 3/30.

[G-Snarls]

It appears that we may have a 3 year offer out to Yusel Kikuchi. How does everyone feel about that?

 

The 95 mph fastball from the left side is certainly interesting. If Pete Walker sees something then I would be comfortable with 3/30.

 

I'd do that deal

[Ehjays]

Can Bryant or Ramirez play 2B? Or maybe they could have Moreno try out at 2B if they get 1 of them and stick them at 3B.

 

Moreno was SS/2B before they moved him to C. Not sure how good he was but Im sure with how atheletic he is, he probably average at least

[jaysguy44]

I don't really see the need for Kikuchi, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

 

Gausman

Berrios

Ryu

Manoah

Pearson/Stripling

[Jimcanuck]

I don't really see the need for Kikuchi, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

 

Gausman

Berrios

Ryu

Manoah

Pearson/Stripling

 

That's too weak. Ryu and Pearson/Stripling have too many red flags.

[M.E.]

I don't really see the need for Kikuchi, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

 

Gausman

Berrios

Ryu

Manoah

Pearson/Stripling

 

I would love to be proven wrong, however I do not believe that Pearson will ever be a serviceable starting pitching option over the long term. Health and command being the issue.

[Jays24]

The Cardinals and Rays (and others) have gone into a new season with a rookie penciled in for a starting role numerous times. They are considered to be some of the most solid franchises in the sport.

 

You don’t need an all-star caliber player at every position to compete.

 

I agree Smith shouldn’t be given the starting job, but if Moreno was ready for the bigs it wouldn’t be egregious to roll with him as the main 3B.

 

I think Seager is a great option to hold 3B for a year or two until one of Groshans/Moreno becomes the clear front runner to take over. Also gives Biggio/Espinal a year at 2B to evaluate their usefulness going forward.

 

Tampa and the A's have set themselves on a whole different level when it comes to doing this. I understand we don't need an allstar at every position, which is why I'm good with Espinal/Biggio platooning at 2B.

 

Our management has said their plan is to get better and you don't downgrade from a top 3 MVP candidate who also won the gold glove to Moreno unless it's extremely obvious he's about to rake offensively and defensively at the big league level. If that were the case, I'm sure Moreno would have been called up for at least a few games like Kirk was the year before. We had a gaping hole at 3B when Biggio/Espinal went down so I'm just extremely skeptical that Moreno is ready to be our opening day 3rd baseman.

 

Im really confident that we will land a big fish for the infield. Still lots off time left until opening day to make it happen.

[Jays24]

I don't really see the need for Kikuchi, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

 

Gausman

Berrios

Ryu

Manoah

Pearson/Stripling

 

I agree with this. I'd rather find a Semien replacement than worry about a Matz replacement. One clearly leaves a gaping hole while the other can be patched up like it was last year or maybe even Stripling/Pearson can surprise us.

[Jays24]

That's too weak. Ryu and Pearson/Stripling have too many red flags.

 

I just have a feeling that Stripling will surprise many of us and take the 5th spot in his contract year. I understand he was pretty bad to start the year but he was pitching pretty well near the end of the season before getting hurt. Take a look at his numbers from May 24 to August 10. He made some changes to his delivery and it was effective.

 

There was a legit debate at that time who will take the 5th spot between him and Matz. Stripling got hurt and Matz went onto to lock that spot down. Could have easily gone the other way had Matz got hurt and Stripling stayed healthy.

[Stangstag]

Tampa and the A's have set themselves on a whole different level when it comes to doing this. I understand we don't need an allstar at every position, which is why I'm good with Espinal/Biggio platooning at 2B.

 

Our management has said their plan is to get better and you don't downgrade from a top 3 MVP candidate who also won the gold glove to Moreno unless it's extremely obvious he's about to rake offensively and defensively at the big league level. If that were the case, I'm sure Moreno would have been called up for at least a few games like Kirk was the year before. We had a gaping hole at 3B when Biggio/Espinal went down so I'm just extremely skeptical that Moreno is ready to be our opening day 3rd baseman.

 

Im really confident that we will land a big fish for the infield. Still lots off time left until opening day to make it happen.

 

I wouldn’t be so confident if I were you, don’t set yourself up for disappointment.

 

A big fish at 3B isn’t necessary, someone like Seager would do

[Krylian]

I agree with this. I'd rather find a Semien replacement than worry about a Matz replacement. One clearly leaves a gaping hole while the other can be patched up like it was last year or maybe even Stripling/Pearson can surprise us.

 

Maybe it doesn't have to be one or the other.

[WryNGinger]

That's too weak. Ryu and Pearson/Stripling have too many red flags.

 

Agree with this. Ryu was starting to give me Dickey vibes (no...not like that...jeez...) at the end of this season.

Edited December 2, 2021 by WryNGinger

[Spanky99]

Some of y'all smoked too much kush.

[G-Snarls]

Tampa and the A's have set themselves on a whole different level when it comes to doing this. I understand we don't need an allstar at every position, which is why I'm good with Espinal/Biggio platooning at 2B.

 

Our management has said their plan is to get better and you don't downgrade from a top 3 MVP candidate who also won the gold glove to Moreno unless it's extremely obvious he's about to rake offensively and defensively at the big league level. If that were the case, I'm sure Moreno would have been called up for at least a few games like Kirk was the year before. We had a gaping hole at 3B when Biggio/Espinal went down so I'm just extremely skeptical that Moreno is ready to be our opening day 3rd baseman.

 

Im really confident that we will land a big fish for the infield. Still lots off time left until opening day to make it happen.

 

IKWYM. But Tampa and Oakland don't have budgets allowing them to push payroll to 140-180M during competitive windows. We do.

[Stangstag]

IKWYM. But Tampa and Oakland don't have budgets allowing them to push payroll to 140-180M during competitive windows. We do.

 

That doesn’t mean we need to spend the money in stupid ways

[Jays24]

That doesn’t mean we need to spend the money in stupid ways

 

Who says it would be in stupid ways though? Expecting to replace a top 3 MVP candidate with the likes of Moreno or Smith I feel would be stupid in a year we're contending for a world series.

 

Like I said, Moreno didn't even get a call up when we had a massive hole at 3B with performance/injury issues. Expecting him to take the starting job with 0 track record at the big league level while learning a new position seems far fetched.

 

I will place my bets that our starting 3rd baseman is not currently on our roster. Just hoping he's good enough to stomach losing Semien a bit easier.

[G-Snarls]

Who says it would be in stupid ways though? Expecting to replace a top 3 MVP candidate with the likes of Moreno or Smith I feel would be stupid in a year we're contending for a world series.

 

Like I said, Moreno didn't even get a call up when we had a massive hole at 3B with performance/injury issues. Expecting him to take the starting job with 0 track record at the big league level while learning a new position seems far fetched.

 

I will place my bets that our starting 3rd baseman is not currently on our roster. Just hoping he's good enough to stomach losing Semien a bit easier.

 

Agreed on all counts

 

A trade or FA singing of someone who can play 2B/3B seems smart and I fully expect them to do exactly this

[max silver]

Who says it would be in stupid ways though? Expecting to replace a top 3 MVP candidate with the likes of Moreno or Smith I feel would be stupid in a year we're contending for a world series.

 

Like I said, Moreno didn't even get a call up when we had a massive hole at 3B with performance/injury issues. Expecting him to take the starting job with 0 track record at the big league level while learning a new position seems far fetched.

 

I will place my bets that our starting 3rd baseman is not currently on our roster. Just hoping he's good enough to stomach losing Semien a bit easier.

 

Moreno has been practicing at third base extensively and gaining experience at third base in the AFL, and this is expected to continue during winter ball as well. He was obviously not going to be ready to man the position last season, but with more reps potentially to come in spring training there is a much greater chance he will be able to effectively man the position in 2022.

[Deadpool]

Who says it would be in stupid ways though? Expecting to replace a top 3 MVP candidate with the likes of Moreno or Smith I feel would be stupid in a year we're contending for a world series.

 

Like I said, Moreno didn't even get a call up when we had a massive hole at 3B with performance/injury issues. Expecting him to take the starting job with 0 track record at the big league level while learning a new position seems far fetched.

 

I will place my bets that our starting 3rd baseman is not currently on our roster. Just hoping he's good enough to stomach losing Semien a bit easier.

 

Semien isn't being replaced in a vacuum though, healthy season from Biggio and Springer likely cover most of the Semien losses. We don't need to find 7 WAR from new assets. Now, I want more depth, and Valera is gone (but I wanted to upgrade on him anyway) so there are still infield moves to be made, but suggesting that we're boned if we don't get another All Star calibre player isn't accurate IMO.

 

Also, uhhh... Moreno was hit by a pitch in late June and wasn't available to be called up. He was out until late September.

[Stangstag]

Agreed on all counts

 

A trade or FA singing of someone who can play 2B/3B seems smart and I fully expect them to do exactly this

 

Im also expecting them to get someone, just not necessarily a player like Bryant/Ramirez.

 

Im thinking they’ll go with someone like Seager/Donaldson

[Stangstag]

Semien isn't being replaced in a vacuum though, healthy season from Biggio and Springer likely cover most of the Semien losses. We don't need to find 7 WAR from new assets. Now, I want more depth, and Valera is gone (but I wanted to upgrade on him anyway) so there are still infield moves to be made, but suggesting that we're boned if we don't get another All Star calibre player isn't accurate IMO.

 

Also, uhhh... Moreno was hit by a pitch in late June and wasn't available to be called up. He was out until late September.

 

This. Its not as simple as “we lost a 7 WAR player and we need ro replace him”

 

Haven’t you guys seen moneyball? There’s literally a scene in the movie where this exact discussion takes place. I agree with Jonah Hill and Brad Pitt

[wilko]

This. Its not as simple as “we lost a 7 WAR player and we need ro replace him”

 

Haven’t you guys seen moneyball? There’s literally a scene in the movie where this exact discussion takes place. I agree with Jonah Hill and Brad Pitt

 

Not Billy Beane and Peter Brand?

[G-Snarls]

Im also expecting them to get someone, just not necessarily a player like Bryant/Ramirez.

 

Im thinking they’ll go with someone like Seager/Donaldson

 

Yes. A free agent on a short contract or a trade for someone on an expiring contract with 1-2 years left.

[Olerud363]

This. Its not as simple as “we lost a 7 WAR player and we need ro replace him”

 

Haven’t you guys seen moneyball? There’s literally a scene in the movie where this exact discussion takes place. I agree with Jonah Hill and Brad Pitt

 

You have to re-create him in the aggregate.

 

Jays two worst positions hitting wise were DH and 3B while 2B was pretty good. Reframe the problem as replacing 2021 combined DH/3B/2B production.

[Stangstag]

Not Billy Beane and Peter Brand?

 

Who?

[Jays24]

Semien isn't being replaced in a vacuum though, healthy season from Biggio and Springer likely cover most of the Semien losses. We don't need to find 7 WAR from new assets. Now, I want more depth, and Valera is gone (but I wanted to upgrade on him anyway) so there are still infield moves to be made, but suggesting that we're boned if we don't get another All Star calibre player isn't accurate IMO.

 

Also, uhhh... Moreno was hit by a pitch in late June and wasn't available to be called up. He was out until late September.

 

I never said Semien needs to be replaced with a Semien like player but he better be more of a sure thing than guys who have yet to contribute at the big league level. I'd even like Donaldson if we could get the Twins to eat some salary.

 

I'm never really a fan of expecting increased WAR from some players while not accounting for other injuries that can and probably will happen. Call me naive but I'm very confident we are adding a good infielder to this team. This will not be a half measure off season. Let's see what the landscape looks like when we return from the lockout.

[Jimcanuck]

Call me naive but I'm very confident we are adding a good infielder to this team. This will not be a half measure off season. Let's see what the landscape looks like when we return from the lockout.

 

Jays will add an INF no doubt, but might just be a strong backup type. It really depends on the Jays internal assessment of Moreno and the cost of Bryant and other options. And the Jays know a hell of a lot more than us about Moreno's 3B defensive abilities. I don't think there's any real concern about his hit tool.

[Krylian]

They could use a Marco Scutaro.

[Stangstag]

They could use a Marco Scutaro.

 

Perfect example of what the team needs right now IMO.

[Olerud363]

They could use a Marco Scutaro.

 

Might want to ask Oakland about Tony Kemp.

 

Espinal may be a Scutaro if he keeps it up and performs to optimistic projections.