General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[mphenhef]

What good is defense when you can't score runs

 

I'm not defending it as a good strategy, just that it is one has has committed to.

[Masterbather]

Are you happy with a trade that brings back the equivalent of Isaac Parades, Hayden Wesniski and Cam Smith? I'm not sure I would be but that's about the value vlad would bring back.

We don't know what they would get back until we see what they would get back, but you got to do the best you can at this point, what's the alternative? The market rate for an extension seems to be something that they're not comfortable with, you can't just let him walk after the year and I feel waiting for the deadline is fraught with peril. There's no other path left to travel here. Merely prolonging the inevitable.

[Spanky99]

We don't know what they would get back until we see what they would get back, but you got to do the best you can at this point, what's the alternative? The market rate for an extension seems to be something that they're not comfortable with, you can't just let him walk after the year and I feel waiting for the deadline is fraught with peril. There's no other path left to travel here. Merely prolonging the inevitable.

 

I can tell you right now they weren't happy with his ask of 10/400, wasn't well received(prior to Soto's signing). Let's wait on Alonso and see if they find a medium.

[Jays333]

So let me get this straight. This poor management team is still in charge. We went hard and heavy on the most coveted free agent (again) and not surprisingly struck out (again). More likely because the management sucks, the core sucks and the farm system sucks, we have no direction.

 

We let go of Romano over 7mil and an arm injury but then resigned a worse pitcher at the same price who also has an arm issue?

 

This team is offensively inept so we traded one of the very few prospects who can actually hit in order to add more defense to an already elite defensive team?

 

Sounds about right for Shatkins and Co

 

Oh yah and were likely about to lose our best home grown player as well

[Omar]

So let me get this straight. This poor management team is still in charge. We went hard and heavy on the most coveted free agent (again) and not surprisingly struck out (again). More likely because the management sucks, the core sucks and the farm system sucks, we have no direction.

 

We let go of Romano over 7mil and an arm injury but then resigned a worse pitcher at the same price who also has an arm issue?

 

This team is offensively inept so we traded one of the very few prospects who can actually hit in order to add more defense to an already elite defensive team?

 

Sounds about right for Shatkins and Co

 

In fairness we have to wait until February to see how things shake out. There is a path to meaningful improvement of this team but Atkins may have to thread the needle to do it. As it stands right now who is our third baseman? Who is our closer? Will Bo be here on opening day or is the plan to move him and put Gimenez at SS and Wagner at 2b? Are they going to try to get a TOR starter or go with a second tier option? Will they get a first baseman and move Vladdy to 3b? Is the plan to dump Vladdy at the trade deadline? Will Varsho be ready for opening day? Who is the cleanup hitter? How will the Jays supplement their anemic offense? This team hit 156 home runs in 2024, 26th in all of bball. Only Tampa and the White Sox were worse in the AL for hitting bombs. They need to add 60 to that number. How? Where's the big bat we were promised?

 

This team is full of questions and Ross Atkins is the Riddler!

Edited December 19, 2024 by Omar

[Key22]

Are you happy with a trade that brings back the equivalent of Isaac Parades, Hayden Wesniski and Cam Smith? I'm not sure I would be but that's about the value vlad would bring back.

 

Well - you would also be freeing up $30 million for 2025. So, conceivably, it would be that package plus say Santander or Hernandez and $10 million for maybe 2 quality relievers or 1 closer etc.

 

The Jays have too many holes. Unless they're willing to rock a $300m payroll (and they aren't) then I don't see them finishing any higher than 4th. We would need to get lucky - Vladdy would have to do exactly what he did last year (preferably with 10 more home runs), Bo needs to have one of his best two years, Manoah will have to come back as an all-star starter, and no major player can regress or get hurt.

 

And we still don't have a closer or decent back up catcher - and by back-up - I mean 1b since he will catch like 70-80 games with Kirk.

 

I'd rather get a decent package than lose him next year. Vladdy's contract is going to be $400m, so if the khakis in Toronto don't know that and think they're signing him cheap, like $175 million, then they should be fired for incompetence.

 

Boston has a a solid minor league system. Get two of their top 10 prospects and one more, and let them have their next Man-Ram.

[BCZ]

If Blue jays don't add some exciting players I'll be watching a lot less games this year.

[G-Snarls]

If Blue jays don't add some exciting players I'll be watching a lot less games this year.

 

I'd say the same but it would be hard to watch fewer than last year for me

 

Fewest I've watched in 20+ years

[Spanky99]

In fairness we have to wait until February to see how things shake out. There is a mpath to meaningful improvement of this team but Atkins may have to thread the needle to do it. As it stands right now who is our third baseman? Who is our closer? Will Bo be here on opening day or is the plan to move him and put Gimenez at SS and Wagner at 2b? Are theys that about su a tidy, well going to try to get a TOR starter or go with a second tier option? Will they get a first baseman and move Vladdy to 3b? Is the plan to dump Vladdy at the trade deadline? Will Varsho be ready for opening day? Who is the cleanup hitter? How will the Jays supplement their anemic offense? This team hit 156 home runs in 2024, 26th in all of bball. Only Tampa and the White Sox were worse in the AL for hitting bombs. They need to add 60 to that number. How? Where's the big bat we were promised?

 

This team is full of questions and Ross Atkins is the Riddler!

 

This is a tidy, *well, that about sums it up* post.

[The_DH]

Actions speak a lot louder than words: when we actually acquire something decent I'll believe it but for now I'm not convinced that we're doing anything. When it comes to offseason, I think there are several choices of what to do, being:

 

1. Actually go for the player and make a significant $$ offer that is highest or next to it. The $$ challenge with a Canadian team is higher taxes and requires a higher bid than some US teams such as Florida and Texas based teams.

2. Make a smaller offer for a player so that you can say you were in it, but not meaningfully so. The benefit is that people think you're doing something when you're really not. It's all about image.

3. Make a smaller offer hoping the top team is not a good place for the player.

4. Pivot to a trade for the type of player you need.

5. Stay out of bids that you have no chance on.

 

I still think we're doing a lot of #2. My expectation is that we'll get Joc Pederson and some Grichuk type and that will be it. We will probably stay under any of the tax brackets but if we start off really well, we may acquire somebody.

[Jays24]

Seattle claimed catcher Nick Raposo from the Jays... do we riot? Lol Edited December 20, 2024 by Jays24

[Angrioter]

If Blue jays don't add some exciting players I'll be watching a lot less games this year.

 

But we have 5 GG players right now (Varsho, Vladdy, Gimenez, Clement and Kirk)..... but last place team for sure.

[Rimar]

Actions speak a lot louder than words: when we actually acquire something decent I'll believe it but for now I'm not convinced that we're doing anything. When it comes to offseason, I think there are several choices of what to do, being:

 

1. Actually go for the player and make a significant $$ offer that is highest or next to it. The $$ challenge with a Canadian team is higher taxes and requires a higher bid than some US teams such as Florida and Texas based teams.

2. Make a smaller offer for a player so that you can say you were in it, but not meaningfully so. The benefit is that people think you're doing something when you're really not. It's all about image.

3. Make a smaller offer hoping the top team is not a good place for the player.

4. Pivot to a trade for the type of player you need.

5. Stay out of bids that you have no chance on.

 

I still think we're doing a lot of #2. My expectation is that we'll get Joc Pederson and some Grichuk type and that will be it. We will probably stay under any of the tax brackets but if we start off really well, we may acquire somebody.

You shouldn't forgot that players in Canada are paid in USD, so they don't really lose money, despite taxes are higher.

[max silver]

Actions speak a lot louder than words: when we actually acquire something decent I'll believe it but for now I'm not convinced that we're doing anything. When it comes to offseason, I think there are several choices of what to do, being:

 

1. Actually go for the player and make a significant $$ offer that is highest or next to it. The $$ challenge with a Canadian team is higher taxes and requires a higher bid than some US teams such as Florida and Texas based teams.

2. Make a smaller offer for a player so that you can say you were in it, but not meaningfully so. The benefit is that people think you're doing something when you're really not. It's all about image.

3. Make a smaller offer hoping the top team is not a good place for the player.

4. Pivot to a trade for the type of player you need.

5. Stay out of bids that you have no chance on.

 

I still think we're doing a lot of #2. My expectation is that we'll get Joc Pederson and some Grichuk type and that will be it. We will probably stay under any of the tax brackets but if we start off really well, we may acquire somebody.

 

It just seems completely illogical to me to assume that a professional sports front office would waste their time on fake pursuits of free agents as some sort of smokescreen.

[Brownie19]

It just seems completely illogical to me to assume that a professional sports front office would waste their time on fake pursuits of free agents as some sort of smokescreen.

 

I think that goes without saying ..100%

[Laika]

It just seems completely illogical to me to assume that a professional sports front office would waste their time on fake pursuits of free agents as some sort of smokescreen.

 

Blame Edward S. Rogers III

 

Dysfunction starts at the top. Seems like Shatkins don't even know what their budget is.

[Spanky99]

This guy's a bird...

 

 

 

Seriously how does the 9th ranked CF last season, land at a 23 rank?

Edited December 21, 2024 by Spanky99

[hanton]

"Vladdy said he was offered 150MM / 7 years after 21'. He added that the team hasn’t been close to the amount he’s looking for; he’ll be willing to negotiate until the first day of camp. The ~340MM offer was after Soto's pursuit. "

 

sources

[Stangstag]

"Vladdy said he was offered 150MM / 7 years after 21'. He added that the team hasn’t been close to the amount he’s looking for; he’ll be willing to negotiate until the first day of camp. The ~340MM offer was after Soto's pursuit. "

 

sources

 

He can suck farts. Dude thinks he’s the best ever when he’s merely above-average

[Spanky99]

He can suck farts. Dude thinks he’s the best ever when he’s merely above-average

 

Above average players don't put up 6.3 and 5.5 WAR, he's been inconsistent sure, but there's a superstar in there. Not a dime more than 400M and I'm good.

[max silver]

Above average players don't put up 6.3 and 5.5 WAR, he's been inconsistent sure, but there's a superstar in there. Not a dime more than 400M and I'm good.

 

He's been above average as a whole for his career though given the incredible level of inconsistency season to season. He's averaged about 3.5 wins per season up to this point which is incredibly disappointing given the natural talent the guy possesses.

[Spanky99]

He's been above average as a whole for his career though given the incredible level of inconsistency season to season. He's averaged about 3.5 wins per season up to this point which is incredibly disappointing given the natural talent the guy possesses.

 

That's what I'm saying Max... they can gamble next year as Stang says but that just might irk Vladdy to say, FU. It's a tough spot to be in.

[Stangstag]

Above average players don't put up 6.3 and 5.5 WAR, he's been inconsistent sure, but there's a superstar in there. Not a dime more than 400M and I'm good.

 

Yeah I don’t think he’d sign for 400 today. Which is why he can suck farts.

[max silver]

That's what I'm saying Max... they can gamble next year as Stang says but that just might irk Vladdy to say, FU. It's a tough spot to be in.

 

I think it's certainly fair to criticize this front office's complete inability to extend any of their core position player prior to free agency. All of Vlad, Bo, Chapman and Semien were guys in my view who were worthwhile in investing in to sustain a long term position player core. I can't help but wonder if the front office was lowballing these guys to a certain degree, or if it's a case where all of these players were essentially looking for free agency level mega deals to sign on the dotted line.

 

The Vlad situation reminds me a little of the Edwin situation years ago. The front office was largely painted as the villain despite Edwin and his agent turning down the best offer they received that year in free agency and being forced to take a shorter deal as a result. I think the Vlad situation is another unfortunate situation where it's kind of hard to fully blame either side. It appears as though Vlad has been insisting all along on being handed a contract that he hadn't fully earned, and the front office was looking to share a bit of the risk of an extension in the case where Vlad never became a consistently elite offensive contributor. I'm nearing the point where if the team can't agree to contract terms with Vlad it might finally be time to ship him out to another organization and consider a full on rebuild.

[Spanky99]

I think it's certainly fair to criticize this front office's complete inability to extend any of their core position player prior to free agency. All of Vlad, Bo, Chapman and Semien were guys in my view who were worthwhile in investing in to sustain a long term position player core. I can't help but wonder if the front office was lowballing these guys to a certain degree, or if it's a case where all of these players were essentially looking for free agency level mega deals to sign on the dotted line.

 

The Vlad situation reminds me a little of the Edwin situation years ago. The front office was largely painted as the villain despite Edwin and his agent turning down the best offer they received that year in free agency and being forced to take a shorter deal as a result. I think the Vlad situation is another unfortunate situation where it's kind of hard to fully blame either side. It appears as though Vlad has been insisting all along on being handed a contract that he hadn't fully earned, and the front office was looking to share a bit of the risk of an extension in the case where Vlad never became a consistently elite offensive contributor. I'm nearing the point where if the team can't agree to contract terms with Vlad it might finally be time to ship him out to another organization and consider a full on rebuild.

 

Agreed, but that doesn't seem to be happening since last deadline, we're not blowing it up, if they have only 23M to spend for the rest of the offseason as ATL podcast suggests, we're f***ed and I'd blow this s*** up, pronto.

[Terminator]

Above average players don't put up 6.3 and 5.5 WAR, he's been inconsistent sure, but there's a superstar in there. Not a dime more than 400M and I'm good.

 

He could be the Jays best, and perhaps only, chance to lock up a 5 WAR player.

 

They can sign the 3 and 4 WAR guys, but the star and superstar players are always going to have major interest surrounding them from the big spending teams.

 

I'd give him 400-450M in present day value and if he wants more than that then I would see if he would bite on deferrals to get it there.

[Spanky99]

He could be the Jays best, and perhaps only, chance to lock up a 5 WAR player.

 

They can sign the 3 and 4 WAR guys, but the star and superstar players are always going to have major interest surrounding them from the big spending teams.

 

I'd give him 400-450M in present day value and if he wants more than that then I would see if he would bite on deferrals to get it there.

 

Deferrals sounds good.

[G-Snarls]

Deferrals sounds good.

 

Makes 400-500M over 12-14 years more palatable yes

[Spanky99]

Makes 400-500M over 12-14 years more palatable yes

 

14 for sure. Yet, I was told he wants 10/400+. Believe what you will.

[Rimar]

Agreed, but that doesn't seem to be happening since last deadline, we're not blowing it up, if they have only 23M to spend for the rest of the offseason as ATL podcast suggests, we're f***ed and I'd blow this s*** up, pronto.

Great chance they will trade Bo and probably Bassitt too. Btw if they really only have 23M left to spend, mean they didnÂ’t really had the intention to sign Soto at 700M. Also, with Soto money they saved, they can easily get Burnes at 40, and Alonso or Bregman for 30. Which is a lot better than Soto alone.