General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[L54]

 

🐸 . .

[Jays24]

I could realistically see something like Santander + Bregman. Would leave a lot of room for pitching but it would be doable.

 

However based on recent comments and overall direction, I think a more likely scenario would be something like a Kepler/Oneill signing + Ha Seong Kim , or a trade for Arenado.

 

Ya I'm just saying what I think it'll take to get this team back to relevancy from an offensive standpoint. If our off-season is as you suggest, I'll get a headstart and tune this out before the season even starts like i did for most of the 2nd half this season.

 

This team showed it is not currently close to contention. Go check how a real team that gets saddled with injuries looks like (Braves). How they still made the playoffs is remarkable.

[Stangstag]

Ya I'm just saying what I think it'll take to get this team back to relevancy from an offensive standpoint. If our off-season is as you suggest, I'll get a headstart and tune this out before the season even starts like i did for most of the 2nd half this season.

 

This team showed it is not currently close to contention. Go check how a real team that gets saddled with injuries looks like (Braves). How they still made the playoffs is remarkable.

 

To be fair, we’ve seen plenty of cases where old/bad teams bounce back and have a great season the next year.

 

Happens fairly often with the Redsox, Yankees, Giants recently, San Diego more recently, etc.

 

However “hope” isn’t exactly a great strategy to employ. Although it looks like they’re deciding to run things back once again, so really all we have is hope. Unless they can somehow manage a savvy retool similar to the Padres.

[Jays24]

 

lolll

[Laika]

Actually now that I think about it

 

Laika entering BORED and BBDL as an outsider is the same as when I entered DDL and LoD

 

Taking over teams that were neglected and relatively uncompetitive

 

I wonder how long until he wins one of the leagues as a newcomer?

 

Not in BORED but my BBDL team, it's inevitable. Pretty stacked from a long term perspective just need to tighten up the roster to win now.

[Jays24]

To be fair, we’ve seen plenty of cases where old/bad teams bounce back and have a great season the next year.

 

Happens fairly often with the Redsox, Yankees, Giants recently, San Diego more recently, etc.

 

However “hope” isn’t exactly a great strategy to employ. Although it looks like they’re deciding to run things back once again, so really all we have is hope. Unless they can somehow manage a savvy retool similar to the Padres.

 

But most would agree that the "bounce back" from this team just doesn't exist unless MAJOR additions are made. There is such a lack of overall talent offensively/bullpen that we can't compare this situation to the teams you listed. We also have a piss poor farm system where we can't even "hope" we get unexpected performance from there. It's literally free agency and/or a miraculous trade to get this team back into contention.

[Masterbather]

But most would agree that the "bounce back" from this team just doesn't exist unless MAJOR additions are made. There is such a lack of overall talent offensively/bullpen that we can't compare this situation to the teams you listed. We also have a piss poor farm system where we can't even "hope" we get unexpected performance from there. It's literally free agency and/or a miraculous trade to get this team back into contention.

 

East ain't getting any easier either. Rays are the Rays and will be healthier. Red Sox aren't going to keep spinning their wheels. Yankees and Orioles not going anywhere. It's a real uphill battle.

[jaysblue]

I'm glad you noticed him out there. We have indeed landed one of the biggest FA's in baseball recently. That's the point. The rest of what you said seems irrelevant in this discussion. Are you just trying to add a dig that Springer sucks now and Atkins f***ed it up? Just can't resist eh? No team can accurately predict how players will age decline in their early to mid 30's. I suspect Springer's decline is on the lower end of the probable outcomes. It certainly sucks for Jays fans. Do you want them to be more risk adverse with free agents? You don't want them to add the extra year to land the FA they think can help the team in the short/medium term?

 

But Atkins did mess up. It wasn't his best FA signing, let's call it what it is. Springer is making $25M this upcoming season and in 2026. There is a reason why the Jays only have $50M or so left in their budget this offseason. It's because of expensive contracts like Springer and others.

 

If AA makes a bad trade or bad FA signing, it's all his fault. And I do agree, people at the top should be held accountable. But when Atkins makes a mistake, you pull every excuse out of your hat, defending him and this front office no matter what! Grow up man!

 

As well, why is Atkins so good at targeting starting pitchers who can stay healthy but when it comes to outfielders, he's been meh. Like you think he would use the same magical formula he does with his starters?

[jaysblue]

 

lolll

 

30% off site wide at Pink Cherry!

[Jimcanuck]

Not in BORED but my BBDL team, it's inevitable. Pretty stacked from a long term perspective just need to tighten up the roster to win now.

 

When I read this I thought it was connorp post

[Jimcanuck]

Enough about Jurickson Profar...who wants to help me spread rumors on twitter that Aaron Judge is about to get swept up in the Diddy freak offs scandal?

 

I did not expect to see Terminator promoting cancel culture

[John_Havok]

But Atkins did mess up. It wasn't his best FA signing, let's call it what it is. Springer is making $25M this upcoming season and in 2026. There is a reason why the Jays only have $50M or so left in their budget this offseason. It's because of expensive contracts like Springer and others.

 

If AA makes a bad trade or bad FA signing, it's all his fault. And I do agree, people at the top should be held accountable. But when Atkins makes a mistake, you pull every excuse out of your hat, defending him and this front office no matter what! Grow up man!

 

As well, why is Atkins so good at targeting starting pitchers who can stay healthy but when it comes to outfielders, he's been meh. Like you think he would use the same magical formula he does with his starters?

 

This is why you never grade signings in hindsight, just the process that led to them. If the Jays in 2021 had gone deep like they could have, the signing looks a lot better. But it doesnt change the reality that as soon as the ink was dry they knew the last few years were going to be s***. They all knew it was a possibility. It may be happening faster than they thought...or his decline might be steeper, but they knew going in.

 

Same thing every team knows about all the longer term contracts, they all turn to s*** at some point.

 

So, a team really only had 2 choices...sign big name FAs when you can to improve your team on the short term amd live with the fallout, or...never sign big name FAs.

 

There's not very many franchises that have consistently ran deep in the playoffs for long periods of time without signing them though. Low spending teams can still pop up every once in a while, but they never sustain it long term. Even the Rays magic well has been running dry.

[Brownie19]

But Atkins did mess up. It wasn't his best FA signing, let's call it what it is. Springer is making $25M this upcoming season and in 2026. There is a reason why the Jays only have $50M or so left in their budget this offseason. It's because of expensive contracts like Springer and others.

 

If AA makes a bad trade or bad FA signing, it's all his fault. And I do agree, people at the top should be held accountable. But when Atkins makes a mistake, you pull every excuse out of your hat, defending him and this front office no matter what! Grow up man!

 

As well, why is Atkins so good at targeting starting pitchers who can stay healthy but when it comes to outfielders, he's been meh. Like you think he would use the same magical formula he does with his starters?

 

If you're going to simply judge a GM's move based on the results, then there's no point in us having any discussion.

 

IMO, signing Springer when we did was huge and a great move for the organization. They had the young core and wanted to add a star with a big time playoff pedigree. Those 2021 and 2022 seasons were real opportunities for greatness. Just because it hasn't worked out, doesn't make it a bad move.

 

I have the same view on the Braves rotation this year. I worked out AMAZING for them - but I think the Braves got really lucky to get those results. I have loved a lot of the moves the Braves have made on the offensive side recently. I thought it was great move to take a chance on Kelenic - even if it didn't work out.

 

The reality is all moves have probabilities of success. I can't get mad at someone for a move that failed if it had an 80% chance of success. I'm also not going to give much praise for something like Profar, which was a 95th+ percentile outcome. That's how I work. I'm sorry if you don't think the same.

[saskjayfan]

If you're going to simply judge a GM's move based on the results, then there's no point in us having any discussion.

 

IMO, signing Springer when we did was huge and a great move for the organization. They had the young core and wanted to add a star with a big time playoff pedigree. Those 2021 and 2022 seasons were real opportunities for greatness. Just because it hasn't worked out, doesn't make it a bad move.

 

I have the same view on the Braves rotation this year. I worked out AMAZING for them - but I think the Braves got really lucky to get those results. I have loved a lot of the moves the Braves have made on the offensive side recently. I thought it was great move to take a chance on Kelenic - even if it didn't work out.

 

The reality is all moves have probabilities of success. I can't get mad at someone for a move that failed if it had an 80% chance of success. I'm also not going to give much praise for something like Profar, which was a 95th+ percentile outcome. That's how I work. I'm sorry if you don't think the same.

 

Signing springer wasn't a mistake. The problem is our farm sucks and that's a direct result drafting, international signings and development. Have you looked at our top international signings the last several years. It's gross. Bonilla had a .556 OPS this year and we spent 90% of our INT money on him. Meza, Beltre...gross.

[Jays24]

I would love Shatkins to develop the balls to put their faces in front of the fans. These 2 have been in hiding ever since the Berrios f*** up. I can't think of 2 more hated sports people in this city at the moment. They started with everyone hating their guts and their tenure will end with everyone hating their guts lol. Edited October 4, 2024 by Jays24

[Omar]

So I finally listened to the Shapiro/Atkins season ending press conference today in its entirety. One thing that stood out was the question to Shapiro about next years payroll. His answer was that it will not be substantively different than this season. So I guess I will have temper my expectations.

[John_Havok]

So I finally listened to the Shapiro/Atkins season ending press conference today in its entirety. One thing that stood out was the question to Shapiro about next years payroll. His answer was that it will not be substantively different than this season. So I guess I will have temper my expectations.

 

This seasons budget was pretty big when ohtani was an option. Just sayin

 

Hell, for all we know he's already had unofficial and hush hush talks with agents of guys like Soto or Bregman and maybe already knows they have no shot at them. That would suck, but...there's also ways to get more flexibility by trading certain guys

[Key22]

I think the problem with Springer isn't the signing itself - sure you sign a guy and say - the last 2 years he will not be very good but passable. That's fine - once you determine that he is past it - he bats in the 9 hole and by then you have new "star calibre players" to hit in the top 5.

 

To see Springer in the lead-off spot is a sign the team is in trouble. I understand it's hard to replicate Alomar, Molitor, Olrud who finished 1,2,3 in batting average in a year and that that WAMCO top 5 but I think at the minimum - you want the first 5 guys in order to be "solid" in that you know day in and day out that this guy is your leadoff hitter - this guy hits 3, this guy hits 4 regardless of the pitcher's hand or stuff.

 

Once you see a team shuffling line-ups all the time then you have major problems. Right now the Jays have exactly one hitter you can feel confident in being a thumper. And this with a $200m payroll. Having guys like Springer/Varsho/ - Horwitz or Wagner batting 6/7/8/9 is fine enough. Speed, some defence - can run into some bombs. You might view Varsho as your 9-hole Devon White - can hit 15-20 homers and offer great defence - knows how to bunt - that sort of guy.

 

I don't see how Ross (or any GM) can find us 3 star calibre hitters and an elite closer in one offseason. It takes pretty close to that in the AL EAST.

 

What's the best we can realistically do here -

 

Santander and Adames and hope Bo bounces back - That's possible Financially I suspect.

Closer? + high quality Reliever. Maybe bring back Yarbrough as that swingman (who is always useful and not terribly pricey).

[max silver]

So I finally listened to the Shapiro/Atkins season ending press conference today in its entirety. One thing that stood out was the question to Shapiro about next years payroll. His answer was that it will not be substantively different than this season. So I guess I will have temper my expectations.

 

I recall Shapiro also mentioned Atkins would not be held back from pursuing anyone in free agency due to budgetary restraints, but there wasn't really mention of whether available payroll had the necessary flexibility to pursue the top free agent and still fill the other remaining holes.

[Laika]

I think the problem with Springer isn't the signing itself - sure you sign a guy and say - the last 2 years he will not be very good but passable. That's fine - once you determine that he is past it - he bats in the 9 hole and by then you have new "star calibre players" to hit in the top 5.

 

To see Springer in the lead-off spot is a sign the team is in trouble. I understand it's hard to replicate Alomar, Molitor, Olrud who finished 1,2,3 in batting average in a year and that that WAMCO top 5 but I think at the minimum - you want the first 5 guys in order to be "solid" in that you know day in and day out that this guy is your leadoff hitter - this guy hits 3, this guy hits 4 regardless of the pitcher's hand or stuff.

 

Once you see a team shuffling line-ups all the time then you have major problems. Right now the Jays have exactly one hitter you can feel confident in being a thumper. And this with a $200m payroll. Having guys like Springer/Varsho/ - Horwitz or Wagner batting 6/7/8/9 is fine enough. Speed, some defence - can run into some bombs. You might view Varsho as your 9-hole Devon White - can hit 15-20 homers and offer great defence - knows how to bunt - that sort of guy.

 

I don't see how Ross (or any GM) can find us 3 star calibre hitters and an elite closer in one offseason. It takes pretty close to that in the AL EAST.

 

What's the best we can realistically do here -

 

Santander and Adames and hope Bo bounces back - That's possible Financially I suspect.

Closer? + high quality Reliever. Maybe bring back Yarbrough as that swingman (who is always useful and not terribly pricey).

 

It's possible but not likely.

 

$55M or so to spend.

 

Pay for one star bat.

Pay less for another okay bat that performs like a good bat. (i.e. make a great signing)

Pay for some backend RP help.

Piece together the rest of the pen with analytics hurrrr durrrr

Hope the SP stay healthy again lol

Hope Bo bounces back and is that 2nd or 3rd star in the lineup

Hope a couple of the glut of 2H/LF/DH types at the back of the roster develop well and are everyday players

[Brownie19]

Detroit and KC should be prime examples of how poor a playoff team's offense can actually be.

[L54]

Detroit and KC are examples of how bad the American League was

[Carlos Danger]

In a cabin on a lake for few days for the kids fall break.

 

Haven’t read all the posts. Who was Rosie Dimano talking about with the Fbomb?

 

Bassitt?

[Brownie19]

Detroit and KC are examples of how bad the American League was

 

Good news - we're in the AL. Also, the Brewers offense is pretty awful too. They started 5 guys with a wRC+ of 100 or less yesterday in an elimination game. Perkins hitting 2nd and Gary Sanchez hitting 5th? Barf.

[L54]

In a cabin on a lake for few days for the kids fall break.

 

Haven’t read all the posts. Who was Rosie Dimano talking about with the Fbomb?

 

Bassitt?

 

Not sure I’ve read anything about this

[L54]

Good news - we're in the AL. Also, the Brewers offense is pretty awful too. They started 5 guys with a wRC+ of 100 or less yesterday in an elimination game. Perkins hitting 2nd and Gary Sanchez hitting 5th? Barf.

 

Ya I was scratching my head hitting Perkins second against the lefties. Why you wouldn’t just place Chourio, Adames and Contreras in the top three is weird

[Terminator]

Once again I see Springer being discussed without talk of how unlucky he has been.

 

If his wOBA was in line with, or even better than, his xwOBA then this would be an entirely different conversation.

[Carlos Danger]

Not sure I’ve read anything about this

 

DiManno told Shapiro uncensored in the news conference, without naming the player, that I quote, this place is a f***ing shitshow.

[Brownie19]

Signing springer wasn't a mistake. The problem is our farm sucks and that's a direct result drafting, international signings and development. Have you looked at our top international signings the last several years. It's gross. Bonilla had a .556 OPS this year and we spent 90% of our INT money on him. Meza, Beltre...gross.

 

Agree with the start, but to be fair, international signings are a complete crapshoot. Very few, if any organizations are consistently "hitting" on their international signings. Overall, I think we're still quite good in that department.

[Laika]