General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[polar bear]

Can our Offense please wake the f*** up, asking for a friend...

 

You actually have a friend

[Jimcanuck]

Steib is always posting on twitter how bichette and Vlad pull their head off the ball

 

If he wants a coaching job, the Jays should f***ing give him one

[Stangstag]

I don’t have twitter but Joe Siddal put a side by side video up of Guerrero in 2021 and in 2024 and the swing is so drastically different.

 

Weight transfer in the lower half is different, bat path to the zone has become slow and long, hand setup is different. To me it looks like someone compensating physical issues like a leg injury that didn’t heal 100% or a hand injury that has sapped strength, with the knee issues he’s had and the wrist issues I wonder if a lot of not all of Guerreros production problems are because his body is not capable of doing what he did prior to 2023.

 

It’s similar to Bichette, Bichette has looked different at the plate post his leg injury. He doesn’t look as explosive with the swing and it looks like he’s struggling to bring the bat into the zone with speed like we’ve seen in the past.

 

There’s clearly some unexplained issue going on that the statcast s*** doesn’t understand. Like you can’t just keep saying “oh the statcast is painted red, the numbers will come around” when there’s been a gap between the two for several years now.

 

And FWIW, his sweet spot % is abysmal so far this year

 

I do not think Vlad will turn things around in a Blue Jays uniform. If he finishes the year strong f***ing trade him for the best offer you get.

[Sorrow]

There’s clearly some unexplained issue going on that the statcast s*** doesn’t understand. Like you can’t just keep saying “oh the statcast is painted red, the numbers will come around” when there’s been a gap between the two for several years now.

 

And FWIW, his sweet spot % is abysmal so far this year

 

I do not think Vlad will turn things around in a Blue Jays uniform. If he finishes the year strong f***ing trade him for the best offer you get.

 

I think Guerrero is never going to revert back to 2021 but I could see return to 2022 of something like 3.3 fWAR. I just don't see it happening until he gets slapped in the face by reality with only getting a one year deal as a free agent after either being non-tendered this winter or after 2025 as a free agent.

[hanton]

Steib is always posting on twitter how bichette and Vlad pull their head off the ball

 

Yes especially Vlady, below is what Sotto looks like at point of contact

 

[Spanky99]

You actually have a friend

 

[glory]

There’s clearly some unexplained issue going on that the statcast s*** doesn’t understand. Like you can’t just keep saying “oh the statcast is painted red, the numbers will come around” when there’s been a gap between the two for several years now.

 

And FWIW, his sweet spot % is abysmal so far this year

 

I do not think Vlad will turn things around in a Blue Jays uniform. If he finishes the year strong f***ing trade him for the best offer you get.

 

Yeah I think there's a chance Vlad turns his career around after leaving the Jays. Not sure what the reason for his struggles here are, whether it's his own stubbornness, coaching, injury, or all of it, but it's year 6. It's time to stop dreaming on him regardless of what the underlying numbers say. There is a disconnect somewhere. That's the frustrating part for me. I can definitely see a scenario where he's non tendered or traded for scraps after this season and then has an amazing 2025, and we can't even say "Jays should have kept him" because he wouldn't have done that in a Jays uniform. Just have to accept that as a real possibility.

[The_DH]

If he wants a coaching job, the Jays should f***ing give him one

 

He's been a coach in spring training... then he made a comeback.

[mikepelfrey]

Actually Mattingly peaked at 160 wRC+ in 1986, but was an average hitter between 1990 and 1995... He was like hitting .290 with 9 homers in a game that had transitioned to big time power with big time average so hit .290 with 9 homers though looking respectable paled with the true greats like Frank Thomas (like .350 .450 .600 with 40 homers )

 

Also keep in mind that Olerud was out-performing Mattingly from 90-95 however Cito thought Olerud needed to be sat down for Jacob Brumfield.

 

Thus 1990s Mattings is below Jacob Brumfield, which maybe is why all the Jays hitters are hitting like Jacob Brumfield. Maybe Cito is still behind the scenes giving them the same hitting tips he gave Brumfield.

 

As i said that was post back injury which left him in constant pain. the point being that mattingly still fielded his postion and was respectable with his bat. averaging about .280 and .330 on base percentage the rest of his career

 

he had to make adjustments, and he did so. the problem with Guerrero is he thinks he he knows better than anyone else and doesnt need to adjust

[hanton]

As i said that was post back injury which left him in constant pain. the point being that mattingly still fielded his postion and was respectable with his bat. averaging about .280 and .330 on base percentage the rest of his career

 

he had to make adjustments, and he did so. the problem with Guerrero is he thinks he he knows better than anyone else and doesnt need to adjust

 

there's no proof of this in fact I would say it's false, it's possible the adjustments might not be working.

[Omar]

there's no proof of this in fact I would say it's false, it's possible the adjustments might not be working.

 

Most people with the team and media say Vladdy is a hard worker. Puts in extra time before games with Mattingly. Probably a dark time for him right now but he isn't showing it. Not easy for a guy in his mid twenties. If he doesn't get it turned around someone will write a book one day titled, "The Rise And Fall Of Vlad Guerrero Jr.".

[hanton]

Most people with the team and media say Vladdy is a hard worker. Puts in extra time before games with Mattingly. Probably a dark time for him right now but he isn't showing it. Not easy for a guy in his mid twenties. If he doesn't get it turned around someone will write a book one day titled, "The Rise And Fall Of Vlad Guerrero Jr.".

 

Yea I don't think it's a work ethic thing, I'm sure other teams are watching - I wonder if Atkins is getting calls?

 

People should checkout his off season workout videos in the DR, Youtube channel "Team Guerrero 27", his workouts are on full display.

 

Has anyone ever considered he might not care that much about being a star? maybe he's just content with being ok/average...?

[The_DH]

His swing looks awful. The only question, is what caused this. Could be himself, Mattingly, or somebody else. His left shoulder seems turned in and he's slashing down at the ball hitting so many balls to short.

[hanton]

His swing looks awful. The only question, is what caused this. Could be himself, Mattingly, or somebody else. His left shoulder seems turned in and he's slashing down at the ball hitting so many balls to short.

 

yea swing is looking really bad, on top of that he's pulling off the ball, his head is coming up, his bat doesn't seem to be in the zone long enough to give him a good chance at barreling the ball. Too many people in his ear IMO

[Spanky99]

Blue Jays Beat...

 

By MLB Editorial

Sunday, April 28

 

George Springer, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette

TORONTO -- The Blue Jays need their top three to be their top three.

 

 

 

George Springer, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette are off to slow starts, plain and simple. The Blue Jays could handle one of them struggling, but having all three in a slump at the same time has been challenging.

 

 

 

The Blue Jays are getting more out of the pocket of hitters behind them, primarily Justin Turner and Daulton Varsho, but this lineup needs a jolt of life. They’re caught in another season of close games that could so easily turn on one big swing.

 

 

 

Manager John Schneider wants to be patient, though. He’s seen these hitters succeed in the past, and while “the past” is further away for some than others, he expects it will all come around again. He needs these three to lead the way.

 

 

 

“That would be the best possible outcome, then you keep guys where they are in the middle and the bottom, doing their thing,” Schneider said. “It’s a matter of time, really. I know people talk about it. I’m not going to move them. They’re going to be pitched the same way. They’re our three best hitters -- well, you don’t want to say 'best,' JT is pretty damn good and so is Varsho -- but that’s how we’re built.”

 

George Springer

George Springer (.228 AVG, .678 OPS)

 

Springer has had his moments, but he hasn’t exactly carried over the momentum he built with a fantastic Spring Training. It all starts with the leadoff man, and if that’s going to keep being Springer, this turnaround needs to start with him.

 

 

 

“When he’s on time, he’s good,” Schneider said recently. “When you’re on time, you’re swinging at better pitches and everything kind of lines up. It’s a matter of time for George, I think … I think he just needs to pick up his timing a little bit and get ready a bit earlier.”

 

 

 

This all gets to bat speed, which is quickly becoming one of the hottest talking points around baseball, particularly for hitters entering their mid-30s. As a hitter loses bat speed -- even the smallest percentage of it -- they need to begin their swing that much sooner and make decisions even quicker. That can make it more difficult to get to your power, and right now, Springer’s slugging percentage (.356) is lower than any full-season mark in his career (.405 last year is his second lowest).

 

Bo Bichette

Bo Bichette (.208 AVG, .571 OPS)

 

This is the surprising one. It’s also the likeliest to turn around in a hurry, but Bichette has been just a bit off this season.

 

 

 

“Missing pitches that he’s hammered his whole career, just missing them,” Schneider said. “He can get as hot as anybody. He can get hitting .400 for a month or two. I think it’s just about not clipping the pitches he’s been really, really good at his whole career. His swings are better. He’s getting his good swings off more consistently. It’s just a matter of time.”

 

 

 

Schneider makes a great point there. Bichette doesn’t get “hot” in the standard way, he goes on remarkable streaks. One of those will fix these numbers in a hurry, and the Blue Jays need it.

 

Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (.208 AVG, .647 OPS)

 

The 2021 season keeps getting farther and farther away. Guerrero is unbelievably talented -- I promise you that hasn’t disappeared -- but it’s about getting to that talent consistently. These last few seasons, Guerrero hasn’t done it.

 

 

 

Getting the 2021 version of Guerrero back isn’t likely at this point, but an .875 OPS with 35 home runs would change so much about this offense.

 

 

 

“The swings have gotten a bit big on pitches he can really hammer,” Schneider said earlier in the week. “It’s about him understanding: Just take your at-bat. [Tuesday] was a perfect example. He gets a single and it’s like, ‘Maybe that’s your next at-bat, too. You don’t have to go deep.’ Vlad’s right there. He’s one of the most dangerous guys in the league. His swings have just been a bit big, long, if you will. I love the quality of his at-bats overall. People can look at his numbers and be as hard as they want on him, but the quality of his at-bats are good.”

 

 

 

Over these past few seasons, there have been a lot of voices in Guerrero’s ear from both inside and outside the organization. A simplified offensive game plan seemed like something that could help Guerrero as much as anyone this season, but we haven’t seen those results just yet.

 

 

OHTANI IN TOWN

Shohei Ohtani

Of course he homered. Of course he did.

 

 

 

As the boos rained down on Shohei Ohtani on Friday, he launched a home run to right field, only adding to the heartbreak of Blue Jays fans after the club’s failed offseason pursuit of the biggest star in the sport.

 

 

 

“Not surprised,” Ohtani said of the reception through interpreter Will Ireton. “Aside from how the fans may or may not think, I'm just very grateful for the teams that approached me and wanted to sign me. As I said in my press conference before, ultimately I could only choose one team.

 

 

 

“I really do feel that the fans here are passionate, and when they are, that’s the kind of reception that they’ll probably do. I’m just very grateful and respectful that the fans here are passionate, just as the Dodgers’ fans are with us.”

 

 

ADDISON BARGER’S BIG ARM

Addison Barger

No, I’m not talking about his biceps this time.

 

 

 

Early in Saturday’s loss to the Dodgers, Addison Barger uncorked a 100.6 mph throw from right field to third base. It was just a moment too late to get the runner -- even if the play looked like it required a second look -- but it showed Barger's incredible throwing arm that we’ve heard so much about in the Minor Leagues.

 

 

That’s like having Nate Pearson throwing a fastball from the outfield.

 

 

 

Barger’s bat will determine his big league trajectory, but it’s easy to see the physical tools the Blue Jays are so excited about.

[mphenhef]

Most people with the team and media say Vladdy is a hard worker. Puts in extra time before games with Mattingly. Probably a dark time for him right now but he isn't showing it. Not easy for a guy in his mid twenties. If he doesn't get it turned around someone will write a book one day titled, "The Rise And Fall Of Vlad Guerrero Jr.".

 

 

Maybe getting rid of his friends and his jacket has had a mental impact on him that's affecting his performance on the field.

[BigCecil]

Anyone heard any updates on Green IL stint? Big RP FO investment this off season, and a key arm for this pen.

[max silver]

Anyone heard any updates on Green IL stint? Big RP FO investment this off season, and a key arm for this pen.

 

The last I heard he was expected to get back to throwing shortly. I haven't heard any prognosis on timeline for return however.

[keggy]

Most people with the team and media say Vladdy is a hard worker.

 

Do you have sources for this?

[Omar]

Do you have sources for this?

 

It has been mentioned multiple times by Shulman/Buck how Vladdy is out taking extra time with Mattingly prior to games and on off days. Siddall made reference to it as well. It's not like the guy isn't trying.

[hanton]

Do you have sources for this?

 

he has a youtube channel showing his off season workouts, you can check that out

[Governator]

Sorry to kill the mood but I honestly don't think anything is "wrong" with Vlad... I think he is what he is, like so many other heavy hitters.

 

He's going to start projecting as a 3 war+ guy and can sprinkle in some magic at times and that's what you get with him. 3 years is way too far out from his last MVP like season to consider that as his norm. Reminds me of guys like Josh Hamilton, Chris Davis, etc. who could have a hot MVP season but for their career they just settle in to who they are.

[204Jays]

Jays should take a flyer on Trevor Bauer. We need more excitement around the team and we could certainly use his talents.

 

f*** all the soy boys who can't cope that this man is actually innocent. They can f*** right off

[G-Snarls]

Jays should take a flyer on Trevor Bauer. We need more excitement around the team and we could certainly use his talents.

 

f*** all the soy boys who can't cope that this man is actually innocent. They can f*** right off

 

Starting pitching isn't the problem. Like at all.

[Masterbather]

Sorry to kill the mood but I honestly don't think anything is "wrong" with Vlad... I think he is what he is, like so many other heavy hitters.

 

He's going to start projecting as a 3 war+ guy and can sprinkle in some magic at times and that's what you get with him. 3 years is way too far out from his last MVP like season to consider that as his norm. Reminds me of guys like Josh Hamilton, Chris Davis, etc. who could have a hot MVP season but for their career they just settle in to who they are.

 

Yeah but the thing with Vladdy is that there's a lot there to suggest that he's just inches away from being a dominant hitter again. He still hits the ball hard, he still seems to have a good eye at the plate. For whatever reason, he just can't seem to find those inches. It's maddening. You do get the sense that he'll figure it out one day, but it won't be here.

[Masterbather]

Starting pitching isn't the problem. Like at all.

 

How so? Bassitt has been mediocre and we have no long-term plan for the number five slot. No such thing as too much pitching. Especially with the way we hit, or rather the way we don't hit, we need every good pitcher we can throw out there. We basically need to limit the opposition to no more than two or three runs per game.

[BigCecil]

Sorry to kill the mood but I honestly don't think anything is "wrong" with Vlad... I think he is what he is, like so many other heavy hitters.

 

He's going to start projecting as a 3 war+ guy and can sprinkle in some magic at times and that's what you get with him. 3 years is way too far out from his last MVP like season to consider that as his norm. Reminds me of guys like Josh Hamilton, Chris Davis, etc. who could have a hot MVP season but for their career they just settle in to who they are.

 

Fair. Likely correct.

 

I hate the toe tap he has. Its more pronounced than 2021. He is in between or late on heat way too often.

 

Chipper Jones is the only hitter I can think of who could master it at an elite level for a sustained period, and he did it as a SH.

[Laika]

Sorry to kill the mood but I honestly don't think anything is "wrong" with Vlad... I think he is what he is, like so many other heavy hitters.

 

He's going to start projecting as a 3 war+ guy and can sprinkle in some magic at times and that's what you get with him. 3 years is way too far out from his last MVP like season to consider that as his norm. Reminds me of guys like Josh Hamilton, Chris Davis, etc. who could have a hot MVP season but for their career they just settle in to who they are.

 

Oh we've all moved on from that I think

 

Nobody is expecting anything close to 2021 again

 

The question now is just... is he even 2022 Vlad? 3 WAR would be splendid. But can he even be a 130 wRC+ hitter anymore?

 

I would love .311/.401/.601 but for f***s sake at least give me .275/.350/.475 or something like that

 

Just absurd that he cannot run a .200+ ISO even when he sucks

 

And stay glued to the bases you idiiiiottttttttttt

[Terminator]

 

He's back

 

Vlad and Bo will quickly follow suit

[G-Snarls]

 

He's back

 

Vlad and Bo will quickly follow suit

 

It's been so frustrating waiting for Kirk Vlad and Bo to warm up or whatever

 

OTOH Varsho has been a beauty to watch