Teo Traded to Seattle

[G-Snarls]

I mean it’s the middle of November and there have been like three free agent signings and a couple of trades. No way they’re going to go into next year with Merrifield in CF and Espinal/Biggio at second. What addition(s) offensively is yet to be seen but they’re not calling it an offseason by adding Erik Swanson and that’s it.

 

I like that they've made a head start

[JFD]

Good riddance Teo!

[Key22]

Blair and Barker on the deal - barker notes that both managers (Montoyo and Shneider benched Teo) for some poor play - perhaps this contributed to them parting ways with Teo. Perhaps stuff the fans don't see.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/blair-barker/id541972447

[Carlos Danger]

Blair and Barker on the deal - barker notes that both managers (Montoyo and Shneider benched Teo) for some poor play - perhaps this contributed to them parting ways with Teo. Perhaps stuff the fans don't see.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/blair-barker/id541972447

 

 

Thanks for the link!

[THANOS]

Money saved in this trade + trading one of the catchers mean two sizeable additions should be expected this offseason.

 

1. Trade Moreno & Espinal + for Carroll

2. Sign Kodai Senga

3. Extend Bo or Vlad

 

I would be over the moon if Ross could pull off something like this.

 

I will be "whelmed" if the plan is trading Jansen for Nootbar and signing Heiney.

[Captain_Obvious]

1. Trade Moreno & Espinal + for Carroll

2. Sign Kodai Senga

3. Extend Bo or Vlad

 

I would be over the moon if Ross could pull off something like this.

 

I will be "whelmed" if the plan is trading Jansen for Nootbar and signing Heiney.

 

Why do people hate Nootbaar? I am the biggest Jansen fan and I think getting Nootbaar would be good value back. I realize that Nootbaar does not have a long history of elite performance, but if he did then he would not even be available. He was really good in 2022. His statcast numbers are very good as well.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/lars-nootbaar-663457?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

 

What not to like about:

1- Left-handed decent defensive OF

2- Walks 15% (!) of the time

3- Hits the ball very hard when he connects.

4- Pretty good base-runner.

5- 25 years old with 4 (or 5?) years of control.

6- Extrapolating his 2022 WAR and HRs to 550 PA results in 4.3 WAR and 22 HRs.

 

I love Jansen and I think he is the better player, but Nootbaar is a pretty awesome return given his years of control. The trade will likely improve the team immediately as well.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Captain_Obvious

[Stangstag]

Why do people hate Nootbaar? I am the biggest Jansen fan and I think getting Nootbar back would be good value back. I realize that Nootbaar does not have a long history of elite performance, but if he did then he would not even be available. He was really good in 2022. His statcast numbers are very good as well.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/lars-nootbaar-663457?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

 

What not to like about:

1- Left-handed decent defensive OF

2- Walks 15% (!) of the time

3- Hits the ball very hard when he connects.

4- Pretty good base-runner.

5- 25 years old with 4 (or 5?) years of control.

6- Extrapolating his 2022 WAR and HRs to 550 PA results in 4.3 WAR and 22 HRs.

 

I love Jansen and I think he the better player, but Nootbaar is a pretty awesome return given his years of control. The trade will likely improve the team immediately as well.

 

Agreed, you can’t praise Swanson and then say Nootbar sucks in the same breath.

 

Both players in a similar position of having 1 above-average year and both their savant pages painted red. Both have some risk of ending up as meh players, but also the upside to be great

[Laika]

I like Nootbar too

 

I would not trade Kirk for him which is what other people were proposing

[Grant77]

Why do people hate Nootbaar? I am the biggest Jansen fan and I think getting Nootbar back would be good value back. I realize that Nootbaar does not have a long history of elite performance, but if he did then he would not even be available. He was really good in 2022. His statcast numbers are very good as well.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/lars-nootbaar-663457?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

 

What not to like about:

1- Left-handed decent defensive OF

2- Walks 15% (!) of the time

3- Hits the ball very hard when he connects.

4- Pretty good base-runner.

5- 25 years old with 4 (or 5?) years of control.

6- Extrapolating his 2022 WAR and HRs to 550 PA results in 4.3 WAR and 22 HRs.

 

I love Jansen and I think he the better player, but Nootbaar is a pretty awesome return given his years of control. The trade will likely improve the team immediately as well.

 

I'm not convinced that Nootbar is our solution in CF. He's a good alternative to split time with Springer, but I'd first explore more long term options there.

[JaysAllMighty]

Time to also give Nathan Lukes a chance

[glory]

Why do people hate Nootbaar? I am the biggest Jansen fan and I think getting Nootbar back would be good value back. I realize that Nootbaar does not have a long history of elite performance, but if he did then he would not even be available. He was really good in 2022. His statcast numbers are very good as well.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/lars-nootbaar-663457?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

 

What not to like about:

1- Left-handed decent defensive OF

2- Walks 15% (!) of the time

3- Hits the ball very hard when he connects.

4- Pretty good base-runner.

5- 25 years old with 4 (or 5?) years of control.

6- Extrapolating his 2022 WAR and HRs to 550 PA results in 4.3 WAR and 22 HRs.

 

I love Jansen and I think he the better player, but Nootbaar is a pretty awesome return given his years of control. The trade will likely improve the team immediately as well.

 

Agreed. I can’t comment on his minor league numbers or prospect status since I never heard of him before he came to the big leagues but what he’s done in the Majors so far is not a fluke based on Savant metrics, and 2023 projections like him. The key is if he can play CF. He didn’t spend much time there with the Cardinals, likely due to Carlson, but he might be able to play CF for at least parts of the season (Springer will DH a lot so they’ll need a CF regardless). Still a trade I would make if it were possible, but not sure if it is.

 

With Atkins talking about balancing the lineup, I don’t think they’d want O’Neill. They clearly want left handed bats so I think that’s the direction they go in regardless of who they pick up.

[wamco]

Money saved in this trade + trading one of the catchers mean two sizeable additions should be expected this offseason.

 

Yup, which will set the team up very well for the future in regard to holes to fill. Notable help from the farm should start in 2024 season imo. They just need time.

 

One of the 2 additions would be a lefty sp you would think with berrios manoah and gaus as rhp. As well as a LH OF

[peterkim]

well i think they have plan to move springer to right fielder

[peterkim]

now George Springer is our right fielder on 2023

[Pendleton]

Let me be the first to say, George Springer might play RF in 2023

[Krylian]

Hey guys. Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but the Jays have a hole in RF now. Wonder if they move Springer there.

[Olerud363]

Doesn’t stand up to logic. It’s not about guys “trying harder” with the game on the line. It’s about pinch hitters, pinch runner, greater need for swing and miss to negate teams trying to manufacture runs

 

I'll fully admit I don't have the time to look into this deeply, and I don't watch all the playoff games or a lot of out of market games.... but where are these pinch runners, stolen bases, pinch hitters happening?

 

Almost every playoff game this year was decided by extra base hits. Not all of them in the 9th inning. I mean the Jays got eliminated because Mariners comeback that started with a big homerun in the 6th.

 

Final game of the year, Houston won because of a big homerun in the 6th. It's all about extra base hits. No inning is easier than any other.

 

If Swanson was purposely being kept away from heart of the order, I can see his numbers might be deceiving, if he's facing a random assortment of batters doesn't matter what inning it is. His numbers may not be for real (because of variability) but nothing to do with pitching in the 6th inning.

[wamco]

It’s not like he has ever even played a ton of cf really.

 

Games played in cf 2022-2017

 

86

40

42-short season

75

80

84

 

So it’s not like he is gonna go 160g to none. Prob more like 85 to 100 down to potentially 0 barring injuries.

 

I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal for his offensive production but it should help On D.

Love teo, but he should have been used as EE 2.0 as much as possible

[wamco]

This is immediate help, if you think Toronto ain't getting an OF'er, I don't know what to tell you, meat. Good trade in a vacuum.

 

Also, f*** off.

 

Such a salty quief. When did I ever say they “ain’t getting an outfielder?”

 

Oh right never. Dipshit

[BigCecil]

People like Swanson this much eh? Looks like he has 1 dominant season and an avg FB V wise. 93.7

 

Is his stuff that good? I've barely seen him pitch. Looking forward to hearing a Sarris breakdown on this deal.

[Krylian]

People like Swanson this much eh? Looks like he has 1 dominant season and an avg FB V wise. 93.7

 

Is his stuff that good? I've barely seen him pitch. Looking forward to hearing a Sarris breakdown on this deal.

 

I guess we'll find out, but I don't consider his stuff elite. Hopefully he proves me wrong and can be a high leverage K guy we really need.

[jaysblue]

I like Nootbar too

 

I would not trade Kirk for him which is what other people were proposing

 

I stated that the Cards would probably expect Kirk back in a deal if they dealt Nootbar because of the control. Could be wrong but we'll see. Don't think they would take two years of Jansen for 5 years of Nootbar.

[metafour]

I guess we'll find out, but I don't consider his stuff elite. Hopefully he proves me wrong and can be a high leverage K guy we really need.

 

His stuff grades out as elite, and the performance is obviously elite. Whether that holds year over year is to be seen, but I'm not understanding this weird push to try to downplay him.

[max silver]

People like Swanson this much eh? Looks like he has 1 dominant season and an avg FB V wise. 93.7

 

Is his stuff that good? I've barely seen him pitch. Looking forward to hearing a Sarris breakdown on this deal.

 

Pitching bot rates his stuff as a 55 with command at 50.

 

Other Jays relievers for comparison include (stuff first, command second):

 

Romano S60 C45

Bass S50 C60

Cimber S60 C50

Phelps S40 C45

Pop S60 C45

Garcia S50 C65

Mayza S60 C50

Merryweather S60 C55

Thornton S55 C55

 

http://pitchingapp.pitchingbot.com/

[Brownie19]

I stated that the Cards would probably expect Kirk back in a deal if they dealt Nootbar because of the control. Could be wrong but we'll see. Don't think they would take two years of Jansen for 5 years of Nootbar.

 

This is fair, but the Cards are also firmly in a winning window and have a massive hole at catcher (while also still having Carlson, O'Neill, Donovan and Yepez who play OF). You could certainly see them trading from a position of strength to fill that hole - especially if they think Nootbar is a flash in the pan - or if they think they could just extend Jansen before he breaks out.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Cards get in on the Contreras sweepstakes, or go with a cheep defensive catcher like Maldonado.

[Krylian]

Time to also give Nathan Lukes a chance

 

If Lukes gets any real playing time something has gone horribly wrong.

[Brownie19]

Pitching bot rates his stuff as a 55 with command at 50.

 

Other Jays relievers for comparison include (stuff first, command second):

 

Romano S60 C45

Bass S50 C60

Cimber S60 C50

Phelps S40 C45

Pop S60 C45

Garcia S50 C65

Mayza S60 C50

Merryweather S60 C55

Thornton S55 C55

 

http://pitchingapp.pitchingbot.com/

 

So he's worse than Thornton and Merryweather? Fire Atkins! /s - but this doesn't pass the smell test. What's the Stuff + numbers on him? Isn't it Laika that posts that s***? I'd love to know what website he gets it from (I just googled it and couldn't find it)

[L54]

1. Trade Moreno & Espinal + for Carroll

2. Sign Kodai Senga

3. Extend Bo or Vlad

 

I would be over the moon if Ross could pull off something like this.

 

I will be "whelmed" if the plan is trading Jansen for Nootbar and signing Heiney.

 

I don’t think the Jays are getting Carroll even if they made a fair offer. Somebody else exciting hopefully!

[L54]

Yup, which will set the team up very well for the future in regard to holes to fill. Notable help from the farm should start in 2024 season imo. They just need time.

 

One of the 2 additions would be a lefty sp you would think with berrios manoah and gaus as rhp. As well as a LH OF

 

Should be one long term piece and another medium length piece. The team has to remain cognizant of salary on the books when it comes time to extend/pay Vlad, Bo, Manoah, Kirk etc.

 

That’s where signing a guy like Nimmo probably doesn’t make sense. Sure they could make it work this year but it will handcuff them down the line.

[L54]

I’d be down with Nootbaar I think. If he can play CF then absolutely.