Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Laika]

We can just agree to disagree on Tanaka. He is not the same pitcher he was and further decline can be expected. Stroman has shown no indications of a decline.

 

There are no indications of decline.

 

His DRA was 3.86, his best since 2016. ERA best since 2016. K rate better than 2019. BB rate nearly the best of his career. Velocity back up slightly to 2017 levels, meaning there is no significant velo loss across his whole MLB career.

 

Not sure which Masahiro Tanaka you want to agree to disagree about.

 

This is the type of veteran that someone gets a bargain on. Probably the Yankees on a sweetheart deal though.

[Spanky99]

I feel like people are sleeping on Kluber. He got hit with a comebacker and broke a bone and then had an oblique injury. This year he had a Teres muscle strain. There were no surgeries. These injuries are typically very recoverable. It's not like he has a ton of major arm issues. He could be a very cheap gamble. Tie in a second year option and the risk reward scenario might look pretty tempting if the dollars are low enough. What is Kluber going to get? Does he even get one year 10 mil?

 

I don't think anyone's sleeping on Kluber, just he's only had 8 starts in 2 years, man. I'm pretty sure anyone here wouldn't mind him for a year, 2 tops.

[max silver]

I don't think anyone's sleeping on Kluber, just he's only had 8 starts in 2 years, man. I'm pretty sure anyone here wouldn't mind him for a year, 2 tops.

 

I'd say hard pass to Kluber, there's a very good chance you would get nothing out of the guy. Add $10 million or whatever for the possibility of no value to the $12 million for no value from Roark and you are starting to waste a lot of money that could be spent on some players you can realistically expect to get some performance from.

[connorp]

There are no indications of decline.

 

His DRA was 3.86, his best since 2016. ERA best since 2016. K rate better than 2019. BB rate nearly the best of his career. Velocity back up slightly to 2017 levels, meaning there is no significant velo loss across his whole MLB career.

 

Not sure which Masahiro Tanaka you want to agree to disagree about.

 

This is the type of veteran that someone gets a bargain on. Probably the Yankees on a sweetheart deal though.

 

His Klutch rating took a hit. Yankees have very little depth though so they’ll have to ignore it

Jokes aside, for the all advances in analytics, I feel like Tanaka would’ve commanded extra bucks for sure if he kept up the post-season clutch stuff this year

[Spanky99]

I'd say hard pass to Kluber, there's a very good chance you would get nothing out of the guy. Add $10 million or whatever for the possibility of no value to the $12 million for no value from Roark and you are starting to waste a lot of money that could be spent on some players you can realistically expect to get some performance from.

 

Meh, with his recent injury history and the covid tax... he should come at a bargain. I'm thinking this as a secondary move to something sexier like Bauer on a 1 year deal.

[max silver]

Meh, with his recent injury history and the covid tax... he should come at a bargain. I'm thinking this as a secondary move to something sexier like Bauer on a 1 year deal.

 

Bauer would be an awesome pickup for sure, but the Jays have enough talented young starters in the upper minors that I'd rather the club give them a shot than bring in a reclamation project like Kluber.

[saskjayfan]

I'd say hard pass to Kluber, there's a very good chance you would get nothing out of the guy. Add $10 million or whatever for the possibility of no value to the $12 million for no value from Roark and you are starting to waste a lot of money that could be spent on some players you can realistically expect to get some performance from.

 

I'd just hate to see him sign with Boston for 1 year 7 and put up 30 starts and provide tremendous value. That's the excitement of the offseason...risk reward. I see Kluber as a secondary move. If you somehow get another top starter, rolling the dice on a Kluber for a one year deal makes more sense.

[max silver]

I'd just hate to see him sign with Boston for 1 year 7 and put up 30 starts and provide tremendous value. That's the excitement of the offseason...risk reward. I see Kluber as a secondary move. If you somehow get another top starter, rolling the dice on a Kluber for a one year deal makes more sense.

 

Jays still have to operate under a budget though, I'd hate for them to waste money on roll of the dice reclamation projects. They've spent real money and brought in broken starters, lousy depth guys, and mediocre innings eaters recently. Names like Jaime Garcia, Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson all spring to mind, I'd much rather they take the $10 million or whatever and put it towards an actual quality starter like Tanaka instead of throwing money down the drain on super risky reclamation projects. A rebuilding club like the Red Sox have nothing to lose in taking risks on guys like Kluber so they can turn them into a possible prospect at the trade deadline, but the Jays are closer to being competitive.

[saskjayfan]

Jays still have to operate under a budget though, I'd hate for them to waste money on roll of the dice reclamation projects. They've spent real money and brought in broken starters, lousy depth guys, and mediocre innings eaters recently. Names like Jaime Garcia, Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson all spring to mind, I'd much rather they take the $10 million or whatever and put it towards an actual quality starter like Tanaka instead of throwing money down the drain on super risky reclamation projects. A rebuilding club like the Red Sox have nothing to lose in taking risks on guys like Kluber so they can turn them into a possible prospect at the trade deadline, but the Jays are closer to being competitive.

 

Yeah, but Kluber has a career FIP below 3. He's in a different category. He's not young, but when I look at the injuries taking a comeback and breaking bone isn't an injury I worry about. He had 2 soft tissue injuries an oblique and a teres, but it's not like it was a rotator cuff injury. Kershaw had a teres injury in 2014 and missed 41 days and came back and dominated. Kluber at 7 mil could be a real difference maker.

 

He's an intriguing guy. Teams will want to see him throw. I find Kluber and Paxton the most intriguing guys in the off season because of the injury risk premium and the covid risk premium. 2022 is also loaded with premium starters. No guts, No glory and if you're not careful you might burn the house down.

[Spanky99]

Jays still have to operate under a budget though, I'd hate for them to waste money on roll of the dice reclamation projects. They've spent real money and brought in broken starters, lousy depth guys, and mediocre innings eaters recently. Names like Jaime Garcia, Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson all spring to mind, I'd much rather they take the $10 million or whatever and put it towards an actual quality starter like Tanaka instead of throwing money down the drain on super risky reclamation projects. A rebuilding club like the Red Sox have nothing to lose in taking risks on guys like Kluber so they can turn them into a possible prospect at the trade deadline, but the Jays are closer to being competitive.

 

We're(at least I am) talking about him as a secondary option after picking up a higher ranked SP, sorry about the confusion, what does a one year do to a payroll aside from going up, they have lots of flexibility right now.

[max silver]

Yeah, but Kluber has a career FIP below 3. He's in a different category. He's not young, but when I look at the injuries taking a comeback and breaking bone isn't an injury I worry about. He had 2 soft tissue injuries an oblique and a teres, but it's not like it was a rotator cuff injury. Kershaw had a teres injury in 2014 and missed 41 days and came back and dominated. Kluber at 7 mil could be a real difference maker.

 

He's an intriguing guy. Teams will want to see him throw. I find Kluber and Paxton the most intriguing guys in the off season because of the injury risk premium and the covid risk premium. 2022 is also loaded with premium starters. No guts, No glory and if you're not careful you might burn the house down.

 

I'm not so sure his career FIP has much if any bearing at this point. The guy is 34 years old and has barely seen the field the last two seasons. Is a 26 year old (or thereabouts) Clayton Kershaw a good comparable to a 34 year old guy in terms of ability to come back from injury? Maybe he comes back and puts up a 3 win season or maybe he's one more lost season away from retirement, impossible to say.

[glory]

Sign Ha-Seong Kim.

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ha-seong-kim-has-big-mlb-aspirations-and-projections/

 

The hype is starting.

[TheHurl]

31, had a major injury in 2019, has Boras as an agent, but Sung-Bum Na is also being posted this year. Another guy who has shown interest in coming over his entire career

[glory]

31, had a major injury in 2019, has Boras as an agent, but Sung-Bum Na is also being posted this year. Another guy who has shown interest in coming over his entire career

 

From an ESPN article about him for a few months ago:

 

"While he would no doubt welcome an offer from any major league team if he is posted at the end of the current KBO season, Na has grown fond of two clubs in particular -- the Milwaukee Brewers and Toronto Blue Jays.

 

Rogers Centre in Toronto was the first major league stadium Na saw in person. On a visit to Toronto in 2016, he walked along Blue Jays Way and gaped at the architectural marvel, flanked by the CN Tower."

 

Atkins about to take over the Korean baseball market.

[jaysguy44]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ha-seong-kim-has-big-mlb-aspirations-and-projections/

 

The hype is starting.

 

Where's the fit on this team though? Slide Bo to 2nd, and put Biggio in the OF?

[Terminator]

Where's the fit on this team though? Slide Bo to 2nd, and put Biggio in the OF?

 

Slide Bo to 2B and put Biggio at 3B is probably what I would do.

[connorp]

From an ESPN article about him for a few months ago:

 

"While he would no doubt welcome an offer from any major league team if he is posted at the end of the current KBO season, Na has grown fond of two clubs in particular -- the Milwaukee Brewers and Toronto Blue Jays.

 

Rogers Centre in Toronto was the first major league stadium Na saw in person. On a visit to Toronto in 2016, he walked along Blue Jays Way and gaped at the architectural marvel, flanked by the CN Tower."

 

Atkins about to take over the Korean baseball market.

 

“Then he walked into the stadium and looked down on the field and said wtf is this?

[Terminator]

The new market inefficiency is exploiting Korean players' apparently horrible taste in architecture to our benefit.

[Grant77]

The new market inefficiency is exploiting Korean players' apparently horrible taste in architecture to our benefit.

 

The tallest building on the continent is a pretty amazing sight for the first time, even if you aren't in love with the architecture.

[JuneBug]

The tallest building on the continent is a pretty amazing sight for the first time, even if you aren't in love with the architecture.

 

I think Terninator was referring to Skydome (aka Rogers Center) as far as the alleged poor taste in architecture. The quote was " he walked along Blue Jays Way and gaped at the architectural marvel, flanked by the CN Tower". So the mentioned 'architectural marvel' appears to be Skydome. And indeed at the time in 1989 it was a true marvel, maybe not so much architectural, but certainly engineering-wise. The first successful fully retractable domed stadium!!! Even the Americans had to applaud the accomplishment (now retractable domed stadiums are a dime a dozen).

 

As for CN Tower Toronto: NOT the tallest building in North America. It is officially classified as a 'free standing structure' rather than a building. Nonetheless, at the time it was built (completed in 1976), it was also an engineering masterpiece. It held the record for tallest free standing structure until being surpassed by Burj Khalifa in Dubai in 2014 (an actual dual purpose office and residential building.) Anyways, I can say from being on that upper observation deck at CN Tower: pretty amazing!, especially when it is windy and you feel that sucker swaying slightly!!

[Grant77]

I think Terninator was referring to Skydome (aka Rogers Center) as far as the alleged poor taste in architecture. The quote was " he walked along Blue Jays Way and gaped at the architectural marvel, flanked by the CN Tower". So the mentioned 'architectural marvel' appears to be Skydome. And indeed at the time in 1989 it was a true marvel, maybe not so much architectural, but certainly engineering-wise. The first successful fully retractable domed stadium!!! Even the Americans had to applaud the accomplishment (now retractable domed stadiums are a dime a dozen).

 

As for CN Tower Toronto: NOT the tallest building in North America. It is officially classified as a 'free standing structure' rather than a building. Nonetheless, at the time it was built (completed in 1976), it was also an engineering masterpiece. It held the record for tallest free standing structure until being surpassed by Burj Khalifa in Dubai in 2014 (an actual dual purpose office and residential building.) Anyways, I can say from being on that upper observation deck at CN Tower: pretty amazing!, especially when it is windy and you feel that sucker swaying slightly!!

 

I understand the arbitrary classification, but it's certainly the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere in a practical sense. It's not like the part up to the skypod is a radio antenna or something. It's an enclosed indoor space all the way up.

[saskjayfan]

Any appetite for righting a wrong and signing Liam Hendriks?

[Spanky99]

Where does he sign, c'mon Shatkins, get er done!!!

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/10/trevor-bauer-a-top-free-agent-like-weve-never-seen-before.html

[Eat My Shatkins]

Any appetite for righting a wrong and signing Liam Hendriks?

 

Wow. 13.1 K/9 and 2.0 BB/9 over the last two seasons.

 

1.79 ERA, 0.897 WHIP. 161 K's in 110 innings.

 

I knew he was doing good in Oakland, but that is just nuts.

 

Guy is going to get paid.

 

I can't see the Jays pouring money like that into the bullpen. They seem to do pretty well finding bargains in that department, plus all the spill over from the systems converted starters. Not my money though, so I'd be fine with it.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I wonder if Jackson McClelland is going to factor into the Jays bullpen. Supposedly high 90's heat with a wipe out slider. Read somewhere a couple seasons ago that he led the FSL with a swinging strike rate of 18.9% or something like that.

 

Really blows not having minor leagues to follow these guys progression.

[Krylian]

I wonder if Jackson McClelland is going to factor into the Jays bullpen. Supposedly high 90's heat with a wipe out slider. Read somewhere a couple seasons ago that he led the FSL with a swinging strike rate of 18.9% or something like that.

 

Really blows not having minor leagues to follow these guys progression.

 

Was he hurt this season? He's 26. Figured this would've been the perfect season to give him a couple of innings to see how his stuff plays.

[max silver]

Wow. 13.1 K/9 and 2.0 BB/9 over the last two seasons.

 

1.79 ERA, 0.897 WHIP. 161 K's in 110 innings.

 

I knew he was doing good in Oakland, but that is just nuts.

 

Guy is going to get paid.

 

I can't see the Jays pouring money like that into the bullpen. They seem to do pretty well finding bargains in that department, plus all the spill over from the systems converted starters. Not my money though, so I'd be fine with it.

 

If only we could go back in time and reverse the Liam Hendriks for Jesse Chavez trade, that seemed like a disaster right from the start, and it's only gotten worse over time.

[Laika]

Was he hurt this season? He's 26. Figured this would've been the perfect season to give him a couple of innings to see how his stuff plays.

 

Toronto's depth was too good this year for someone like McClelland to get a chance. They barely had innings for actual prospects like SRF and Murphy. I don't even think McClelland was part of the 60 man pool?

[Krylian]

Toronto's depth was too good this year for someone like McClelland to get a chance. They barely had innings for actual prospects like SRF and Murphy. I don't even think McClelland was part of the 60 man pool?

 

I don't think he was either. So if he can't even crack that 60, how close can he really even be....or how much of a future do they really see in him.

[dineke]

If only we could go back in time and reverse the Liam Hendriks for Jesse Chavez trade, that seemed like a disaster right from the start, and it's only gotten worse over time.

 

They were desperate for starting pitching depth and I don't remember there being an outcry over that trade. FO obviously didn't believe in Hendriks for some reason despite the velo increase since he only pitched in garbage time in the regular season and playoffs.