Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Laika]

 

Any good points made in the article?

 

- Blue Jays suck defensively

- It's hard to imagine many of the current position players moving around

- One of the more likely options is Bichette to 2B, Biggio to 3B, and a good defensive SS brought in

- Simmonds, Semien, and Gregorius are all available but imperfect

- Lindor is probably available and is amazing

- It makes sense for Toronto to want Lindor

- There are a bunch of reasons to not expect it and it would be risky/bold

- It's probably a pipe dream...

-... or is it!??? !!!

[Boxcar]

You'll be happy to know that I read your comment before it was deleted just like you got to quote and comment on mine before it was deleted.

 

The ability to play in Toronto next year is the #1 biggest issue facing this team and until this uncertainty is unsettled it puts the Jays at a distinct disadvantage versus all 29 other clubs. And we know this decision is 100% in the hands of the Feds because Ontario gave the green light (though if things get worse maybe that will change). The NHL is talking about starting the season in early December which means hopefully there is some kind of framework in place that the Jays can use before heading into the winter meetings. Now hopefully this post is non-political enough to not get deleted.

 

I would comment on this but idk, I don't want to mention the Canadian government in any way. Might be triggering

[Olerud363]

I would comment on this but idk, I don't want to mention the Canadian government in any way. Might be triggering

 

As it turned out 0 COVID positive baseball players would of come into Toronto (none came to Buffalo, or the Washington/Philly home games).

 

As it turned out baseball's initial protocols sucked and there was always a chance 15+ COVID positives could of ended up in Toronto (they wouldn't of given the schedule but that was luck).

 

As it turned out even if the Canadian Government had approved I guess they would of un-approved after 17 Marlins got it.

 

As it turned out baseball adjusted it's protocols to shut down teams for at least a series after 1 positive test. This seemed to work.

 

As it turned out the pandemic numbers in the States decreased by about 50% and the numbers in Canada increased quite a bit, to the point where cases are getting close to par, unlike the summer where there was at least a 10 times higher rate in the U.S.

 

As it turned out Donald J. Trump himself got the virus, depending which channel you watch he is either done for or already defeated it like a nothing burger.

 

No one on Blue Jays message boards knows how any of it turned out because the discussion is highly illegal (even though it has repercussions to every baseball decision made this winter).

[max silver]

You'll be happy to know that I read your comment before it was deleted just like you got to quote and comment on mine before it was deleted.

 

The ability to play in Toronto next year is the #1 biggest issue facing this team and until this uncertainty is unsettled it puts the Jays at a distinct disadvantage versus all 29 other clubs. And we know this decision is 100% in the hands of the Feds because Ontario gave the green light (though if things get worse maybe that will change). The NHL is talking about starting the season in early December which means hopefully there is some kind of framework in place that the Jays can use before heading into the winter meetings. Now hopefully this post is non-political enough to not get deleted.

 

The Jays showed that they were able to successfully pull off their games in Buffalo with zero reported covid cases in either the Jays team and staff or the visiting players and staff members. They did this despite playing large amount of their games both in covid hotspots and against teams that were travelling through covid hotspots. Hopefully this would be sufficient to allow the feds to give the Jays an exemption to allow them to play their games in Toronto next season

[Jimcanuck]

As it turned out the pandemic numbers in the States decreased by about 50% and the numbers in Canada increased quite a bit, to the point where cases are getting close to par, unlike the summer where there was at least a 10 times higher rate in the U.S.

 

Huh, close to par? ~23,000 cases / million pop in USA, ~4,500 cases / million pop in Canada

[Spanky99]

The Jays showed that they were able to successfully pull off their games in Buffalo with zero reported covid cases in either the Jays team and staff or the visiting players and staff members. They did this despite playing large amount of their games both in covid hotspots and against teams that were travelling through covid hotspots. Hopefully this would be sufficient to allow the feds to give the Jays an exemption to allow them to play their games in Toronto next season

 

I hope so, man. I'm dying to go see a ballgame.

[JuneBug]

The chances of locking up the core - right before the CBA expires and during a pandemic when we don't know how many games will be played next year, if fans will be allowed in the stadium or if the team is even allowed in the country - is slim to nil unless it's a massive underpay. So get that right out of your minds. Using the budget space to overpay on short term deals in order to accelerate the competitive window is what this team needs to be doing.

 

If spectator sports aren't back in full force by next spring, we have a real problem! Waiting for 'effective' vaccines is a fool's errand. It seems that we will see a fundamental change in the business, if things aren't sorted out in early 2021.Those who got the megacontracts most recently (Betts, Cole, Rendon, etc) could be the high mark for a good long time. Also, the free agent market, in the face of uncertainty, will be so tepid that any team that gambles big could win big.

[Laika]

Sign Ha-Seong Kim.

 

It will be malpractice if Toronto fails to sign him. Exactly what they need on the left side.

[Spanky99]

Sign Ha-Seong Kim.

 

Impressive numbers and young.

[glory]

[Brownie19]

It really would be incredible to see the Jays land someone like Kim.

[Dokken]

It will be malpractice if Toronto fails to sign him. Exactly what they need on the left side.

 

Malpractice would be not putting forth a very competitive offer. Failing to sign him because someone else outbid is just the way it goes. Problem is knowing what a competitive solid offer should be. It's like a blind auction is it not?

 

BTW I will welcome myself back from 1 week in the sinbin because I know nobody else here will

[Stangstag]

Malpractice would be not putting forth a very competitive offer. Failing to sign him because someone else outbid is just the way it goes. Problem is knowing what a competitive solid offer should be. It's like a blind auction is it not?

 

BTW I will welcome myself back from 1 week in the sinbin because I know nobody else here will

 

I think they changed the posting system a couple years back so its no longer a blind bid type thing. I remember Ohtani picked his team

[Dokken]

I think they changed the posting system a couple years back so its no longer a blind bid type thing. I remember Ohtani picked his team

 

Interesting. I never knew they made it 'blind' to the player. I was only referring to it being a blind auction type thing for the MLB teams where they all just put in their best offer without knowing anyone else's offer.

[Krylian]

It will be malpractice if Toronto fails to sign him. Exactly what they need on the left side.

 

What are the odds the Jays sign him?

[Dokken]

What are the odds the Jays sign him?

 

pray to god and ask him. He knows all.....

[Laika]

What are the odds the Jays sign him?

 

I dunno, 5-10% chance?

 

- Fills a need (whether that's SS or 3B)

- Can step in immediately and help push to contention

- Likely won't take a massive investment

- Will have upside above contract

- Having Ryu here might really help land him

 

On the other side, a bunch of other teams will probably be after him. If he wants a guaranteed starting SS position there might be a cleaner opportunity for him.

[Dokken]

I dunno, 5-10% chance?

 

- Fills a need (whether that's SS or 3B)

- Can step in immediately and help push to contention

- Likely won't take a massive investment

- Will have upside above contract

- Having Ryu here might really help land him

 

On the other side, a bunch of other teams will probably be after him. If he wants a guaranteed starting SS position there might be a cleaner opportunity for him.

 

According to the Great Krylian, the Jays do not have a 'true short stop' on the 40 man roster. In that case, there should be NO issue for the Jays "If he wants a guaranteed starting SS position".

 

P.S. too bad you can't put me on ignore (downside of being a moderator?)

[max silver]

I dunno, 5-10% chance?

 

- Fills a need (whether that's SS or 3B)

- Can step in immediately and help push to contention

- Likely won't take a massive investment

- Will have upside above contract

- Having Ryu here might really help land him

 

On the other side, a bunch of other teams will probably be after him. If he wants a guaranteed starting SS position there might be a cleaner opportunity for him.

 

I don't think Bo would have any issues moving off of short stop for an established MLB player, he basically said as much when the Jays were linked with Didi Gregorius. Hard to say how he would react to being asked to move for a rookie with no MLB experience however.

[JuneBug]

I don't think Bo would have any issues moving off of short stop for an established MLB player, he basically said as much when the Jays were linked with Didi Gregorius. Hard to say how he would react to being asked to move for a rookie with no MLB experience however.

 

except as a 22 year old with limited experience (and looked like a fool/amateur at SS in game 2 of the playoff series), he has no right to dictate anything.......

[Laika]

I don't think Bo would have any issues moving off of short stop for an established MLB player, he basically said as much when the Jays were linked with Didi Gregorius. Hard to say how he would react to being asked to move for a rookie with no MLB experience however.

 

I don't think it's that Bo might be upset. It's more that this guy might not be a slam dunk SS. On a team like Toronto, which has Bo Bichette, if Kim has some defensive hiccups early he will probably be manning 3B in short order and his chance to stick at SS will be gone. On a team without other options he gets a long leash to settle in at SS.

[wilko]

I don't think it's that Bo might be upset. It's more that this guy might not be a slam dunk SS. On a team like Toronto, which has Bo Bichette, if Kim has some defensive hiccups early he will probably be manning 3B in short order and his chance to stick at SS will be gone. On a team without other options he gets a long leash to settle in at SS.

 

Should we start a new thread "Can Kim stick at SS?"

[Carlos Danger]

How far out realistically, considering the, "New Normal" for timelines in a COVID world, are Groshans and Martin? Groshans SS, Bichette 2b, Biggio 3B, Martin CF.

[gruber92]

You guys all are ready to accept that Kim's bat will carry over successfully against MLB pitching? LOL

[Laika]

How far out realistically, considering the, "New Normal" for timelines in a COVID world, are Groshans and Martin? Groshans SS, Bichette 2b, Biggio 3B, Martin CF.

 

Groshans would have likely had a full year at A+ in 2020. I think they start him at A+ in 2021 but he will be promoted quickly. There's a chance they start him in New Hampshire though. I don't see any realistic chance at a 2021 debut but there is a chance for the second half in 2022 if he stays healthy and performs.

 

Martin I would plop on the same timeline. If guys like Rutschman and Vaughn did not debut this year, don't expect to see Martin in 2021. If he lights it up in 2021 in the minors though, there could be pressure on the team to break camp with him in 2022.

[BlueRocky]

Jays have a good chance to sign Kim if they go all-in to pursuit him. Toronto has a very strong international fanbase domestically and also established goodwill and popularity with the Korean fanbase.

 

However they’ll likely have to give some commitment to Kim for an opportunity to play SS as most teams recruiting him will have that leverage card in their back pocket.

 

In Kim’s POV, Blue Jays is a decent fit for the same reasons that made Toronto a destination for Ryu. Perhaps more so now that the team has a clear upcoming strong young core and talent in the pipeline while also having spending power. They’re about a .500 ball club now before new offseason additions, but that last curb into a 90-win playoff contender has historically been a difficult one in the AL East.

 

I’m not sure the team is ready to make a long term commitment to an infielder while multiple position player prospects in the pipeline are eyeing the hole at 3B as their landing spot, when it’s more savvy to upgrade the rotation (which improves the team) without plugging any holes or creating potential long term blocks for the upcoming position player core.

 

The one target I think would make some sense is George Springer as it’s a clear upgrade and impact bat that fills a positional need at CF that is young enough to be part of the full competitive window.

[Laika]

Jays have a good chance to sign Kim if they go all-in to pursuit him. Toronto has a very strong international fanbase domestically and also established goodwill and popularity with the Korean fanbase.

 

However they’ll likely have to give some commitment to Kim for an opportunity to play SS as most teams recruiting him will have that leverage card in their back pocket.

 

In Kim’s POV, Blue Jays is a decent fit for the same reasons that made Toronto a destination for Ryu. Perhaps more so now that the team has a clear upcoming strong young core and talent in the pipeline while also having spending power. They’re about a .500 ball club now before new offseason additions, but that last curb into a 90-win playoff contender has historically been a difficult one in the AL East.

 

I’m not sure the team is ready to make a long term commitment to an infielder while multiple position player prospects in the pipeline are eyeing the hole at 3B as their landing spot, when it’s more savvy to upgrade the rotation (which improves the team) without plugging any holes or creating potential long term blocks for the upcoming position player core.

 

The one target I think would make some sense is George Springer as it’s a clear upgrade and impact bat that fills a positional need at CF that is young enough to be part of the full competitive window.

 

This is assuming Kim is good and Toronto wants him, but I don't think it creates a logjam.

 

Kim - SS/3B

Bo - SS/3B

Groshans - 2B

Biggio - RF

Martin - CF

 

The ability to cover injuries or make lineup changes would be insane. Bo can play 3B/2B/SS, Kim presumably can, Biggio can play 2B/3B/RF/LF/CF, Groshans can probably play a couple positions, Martin can likely cover like 5 positions... the team might be able to do some Rays-ish things like selling high on Teoscar before he gets very expensive. Maybe Teo is a DH that can play the OF.

 

They could also just try to do a prospect swap with Groshans. Maybe for an arm like Daniel Lynch... someone like that.

[Orgfiller]

You guys all are ready to accept that Kim's bat will carry over successfully against MLB pitching? LOL

 

So you'd prefer to just roll with Brandon Drury or Travis Shaw and just call it a day?

[Orgfiller]

Jays have a good chance to sign Kim if they go all-in to pursuit him. Toronto has a very strong international fanbase domestically and also established goodwill and popularity with the Korean fanbase.

 

However they’ll likely have to give some commitment to Kim for an opportunity to play SS as most teams recruiting him will have that leverage card in their back pocket.

 

In Kim’s POV, Blue Jays is a decent fit for the same reasons that made Toronto a destination for Ryu. Perhaps more so now that the team has a clear upcoming strong young core and talent in the pipeline while also having spending power. They’re about a .500 ball club now before new offseason additions, but that last curb into a 90-win playoff contender has historically been a difficult one in the AL East.

 

I’m not sure the team is ready to make a long term commitment to an infielder while multiple position player prospects in the pipeline are eyeing the hole at 3B as their landing spot, when it’s more savvy to upgrade the rotation (which improves the team) without plugging any holes or creating potential long term blocks for the upcoming position player core.

 

The one target I think would make some sense is George Springer as it’s a clear upgrade and impact bat that fills a positional need at CF that is young enough to be part of the full competitive window.

 

Kim should in theory cost a lot less than a top rotation arm anyways though right? I don't see why pursuing and possibly acquiring him should prevent us from targeting a Springer or a TOR starter.

[gruber92]

So you'd prefer to just roll with Brandon Drury or Travis Shaw and just call it a day?

 

Simmons, Didi.. Maybe make a splash for Lindor? I'll take those options versus an unproven MLB player.