Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[saskjayfan]

Kim is reportedly a good infield defender but it's unclear whether he's even remotely comfortable in the outfield. The Jays have a clear need to upgrade their infield defense and Kim would likely provide above average defense at third and be capable of providing quality cover for short in case of any Bichette injuries. Switching Kim to the outfield feels like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

Kim has never played in the outfield. It's one thing in the back of your mind that he has a skill set that might make him a decent fielder. It's quite another pencil a kid who's never played the position in as your primary option at CF. This will never happen though. Jim just has a creative mind. I mean Teoscar has elite speed and a great arm. You'd think he'd be a wonderful outfielder. The reality is he's had to work really hard and improve to be close to league average corner outfielder.

[saskjayfan]

I doubt we see Martin with the big club in 2021. Only way that happens is injuries, IMO. Like the injuries that got Soto to the big leagues before he was 20.

 

Your post explains why versatility matters. Groshans could demolish A+, AA, and more than hold his own in AAA in 2021. If you bring in Kim to play all over the diamond, yes including CF, and have versatility with your other players such as Biggio, you can fit Groshans (or whoever) onto the club at the expense of the 26th man whoever that is.

 

Martin is 22. College players have more maturity. He did play at the alternate site. I think there's a very good chance he could get a call up July. We might not have a need for him and it might not happen, but if he's as good as projected and crushing it in A and AA there's no reason to hold him back.

[Spanky99]

Kim has never played in the outfield. It's one thing in the back of your mind that he has a skill set that might make him a decent fielder. It's quite another pencil a kid who's never played the position in as your primary option at CF. This will never happen though. Jim just has a creative mind. I mean Teoscar has elite speed and a great arm. You'd think he'd be a wonderful outfielder. The reality is he's had to work really hard and improve to be close to league average corner outfielder.

 

This is hogwash, Jim may have a creative mind because it's happened on numerous occasions with ballplayers, mostly because their blocked, Kim is a supposed great athlete with great tools, if anything, you're being closed minded. Why are folk planting Martin in CF? It's for the exact same reasons.

[max silver]

I understand that about Kirk, pretty much my point on him, plus they might want him to get seasoned a bit more in Buffalo. Not to mention your other points on the kid. Martin hasn't played a game yet in proball, colour me shocked if that ever happens aside from maybe a September cup of coffee, I'm aware that the Covid expanded rosters might happen, we'll see. I just find it highly unlikely and the same goes for Groshans. Lets see how the off-season plays out. You mentioned preseason and Martin on the squad and my head kind of exploded, I find it extremely unlikely. Meh... maybe I read it wrong. Teams still want to play with players clocks/service time, etc... so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I find myself wondering what level of the minors Martin begins his career at. He's already been exposed to some pretty high level pitching at the Jays alternate training site, as there were plenty of AA/AAA level pitchers there, and some pretty talented pitchers as well. He absolutely crushed college pitching, and with the Jays regularly faced guys like Patrick Murphy, Simeon Woods Richardson and Joey Murray, so it's possible that starting him in A ball or high A wouldn't provide much of a challenge for him at the plate. I could see the club being much more conservative with Groshans initially as he's played so little baseball the last few years comparatively speaking.

[max silver]

This is hogwash, Jim may have a creative mind because it's happened on numerous occasions with ballplayers, mostly because their blocked, Kim is a supposed great athlete with great tools, if anything, you're being closed minded. Why are folk planting Martin in CF? It's for the exact same reasons.

 

The two aren't really all that comparable situation wise. Kim is an established professional baseball player who has excelled as an infielder, whereas Martin is a young player who played both the infield and outfield as a college amateur, and hasn't settled into a position as a professional as of yet. If you sign Kim you likely have an MLB or super close to MLB ready quality infielder to insert into your lineup, as compared to Martin who is much younger and can still be molded into the position of need with the club.

[Spanky99]

I give up.

[saskjayfan]

This is hogwash, Jim may have a creative mind because it's happened on numerous occasions with ballplayers, mostly because their blocked, Kim is a supposed great athlete with great tools, if anything, you're being closed minded. Why are folk planting Martin in CF? It's for the exact same reasons.

 

I'm not being close minded. I'm being pragmatic. It's crossed my mind that he could play the outfield. No contending team in their right mind is going to sign him to be their primary centre fielder day 1. It's one thing if he evolves into that and I never suggested he couldn't. He could end up being terrible though.

[Spanky99]

What you folks don't seem to understand is most of these guys growing up playing travel ball and high school play everywhere, most pitchers in the big leagues were star SS's for their given team or CF, etc... LHP's usually 1B and LF, it's not that big a transition as long as you get some reps in. If you have elite tools, it isn't that hard. Tools and instinct take care of the rest, Kim is 25, has the tools, it won't be that hard to transition to something he likely did a lot before pro ball. Seriously, versatility is a serious asset in pro ball, period. Martin's played a whopping 25 games at CF, lets pencil him in. Give me a break, it's all about your toolset. It's fairly black and white. Ask guys like L54, LG345(?), Hurl amongst many others, it's about as simple as that.

[Grant77]

I don't really object to the idea of Kim playing some CF. Without knowing his skillset like the Jays FO does, I would think he could probably be decent.

 

I'm just not keen on the idea of getting him to be our primary option there when we already have a hole in the infield. Springer and Bradley are available, along with several options via trade and and in-house options like Grichuk and Davis.

[Spanky99]

I don't really object to the idea of Kim playing some CF. Without knowing his skillset like the Jays FO does, I would think he could probably be decent.

 

I'm just not keen on the idea of getting him to be our primary option there when we already have a hole in the infield. Springer and Bradley are available, along with several options via trade and and in-house options like Grichuk and Davis.

 

That's just it Grant, he wouldn't be a primary CF, he could play everywhere when guys need days off, injuries, etc... that's where Grichuk as a 4th OF'er steps in. Not to mention all these guys stay fresh. It's a great problem to have, lol. I believe Toronto are still in on all big FA's and this is all moot.

[Deadpool]

You could still use Kim as a super utility, though? JBJ wouldn't get that AAV in my opinion, more likely 8M. Plenty of AB's to go around and that's without counting injuries. His D is elite, and should age quite well.

 

I just assumed he'd be aiming higher than that, but if I'm wrong and he takes 3/20-24 then I could get on board.

[Grant77]

That's just it Grant, he wouldn't be a primary CF, he could play everywhere when guys need days off, injuries, etc... that's where Grichuk as a 4th OF'er steps in. Not to mention all these guys stay fresh. It's a great problem to have, lol.

 

I'm 100% behind the idea of signing Kim. I just think that we should also acquire another option in CF in case things don't work out

[Jays24]

A lot of debate about someone who most have never seen play lol.

 

Speed isn't the only skill you need to be an elite CFer. Maybe his instincts to catching fly balls suck or his arm at a distance isn't as accurate. So many factors to consider that most probably don't even know can work. I dont think you can sign a guy to an alternative position without being certain of it.

[Spanky99]

I'm 100% behind the idea of signing Kim. I just think that we should also acquire another option in CF in case things don't work out

 

I edited my post and mentioned this earlier. We just need to wait and see how the dominoes fall. Atkins recently mentioned they have contingency plans ready.

[Spanky99]

A lot of debate about someone who most have never seen play lol.

 

Speed isn't the only skill you need to be an elite CFer. Maybe his instincts to catching fly balls suck or his arm at a distance isn't as accurate. So many factors to consider that most probably don't even know can work. I dont think you can sign a guy to an alternative position without being certain of it.

 

youdontsay.gif

[Spanky99]

I just assumed he'd be aiming higher than that, but if I'm wrong and he takes 3/20-24 then I could get on board.

 

He can aim higher, but that bat does not warrant it. Even MLBTR has him @ 2/16... me so right!

[Jays24]

youdontsay.gif

 

Was just responding to the posts about people using his speed and thinking he should be signed to be our CFer. Seems a bit far fetched and something I could see the Jays doing a few years ago. We are trying to take huge steps forward in the next year or two and I'd prefer not to make questionable moves like that. Rather we just try to address our known gaps or hold off on making the moves that may restrain us in the future.

[Spanky99]

Was just responding to the posts about people using his speed and thinking he should be signed to be our CFer. Seems a bit far fetched and something I could see the Jays doing a few years ago. We are trying to take huge steps forward in the next year or two and I'd prefer not to make questionable moves like that.

 

He'd be used as Super-utility.

[Jimcanuck]

Was just responding to the posts about people using his speed and thinking he should be signed to be our CFer. Seems a bit far fetched and something I could see the Jays doing a few years ago. We are trying to take huge steps forward in the next year or two and I'd prefer not to make questionable moves like that. Rather we just try to address our known gaps or hold off on making the moves that may restrain us in the future.

 

He would be CF/OF/2B/SS/3B. As I have said, where he predominantly plays depends on the other moves this offseason.

[Abomination]

A lot of debate about someone who most have never seen play lol.

 

Speed isn't the only skill you need to be an elite CFer. Maybe his instincts to catching fly balls suck or his arm at a distance isn't as accurate. So many factors to consider that most probably don't even know can work. I dont think you can sign a guy to an alternative position without being certain of it.

 

Yes. We all remember Rajai.

[max silver]

One thing that just dawned on me that is getting lost in the Kim discussion is the massive adjustment the guy is going to have to make in basically every aspect of his life in moving to North America. He is going to be dealing with a major cultural adjustment, moving to a new team, changing leagues, moving half way across the planet, adjusting to hitting major league pitching, likely working on his English speaking skills, getting used to fielding balls hit at a much higher exit velocity than he's used to, etc. etc. It might be an unreasonable expectation for Kim to learn how to play an entirely new position in the outfield on top of all the other pressures that he will be under.

[Spanky99]

One thing that just dawned on me that is getting lost in the Kim discussion is the massive adjustment the guy is going to have to make in basically every aspect of his life in moving to North America. He is going to be dealing with a major cultural adjustment, moving to a new team, changing leagues, moving half way across the planet, adjusting to hitting major league pitching, likely working on his English speaking skills, getting used to fielding balls hit at a much higher exit velocity than he's used to, etc. etc. It might be an unreasonable expectation for Kim to learn how to play an entirely new position in the outfield on top of all the other pressures that he will be under.

 

It's baseball, not like Rugby to Football, there'll be adjustments, sure. Yet not like it's pitching with a different ball.

[max silver]

It's baseball, not like Rugby to Football, there'll be adjustments, sure. Yet not like it's pitching with a different ball.

 

He won't be pitching with a new ball but he'll certainly have to get used to throwing the different baseball that is used in North America.

[Spanky99]

He won't be pitching with a new ball but he'll certainly have to get used to throwing the different baseball that is used in North America.

 

:/

 

Welp...

[Spanky99]

He would be CF/OF/2B/SS/3B. As I have said, where he predominantly plays depends on the other moves this offseason.

 

Tell em Jim. I can't seem to get through.

[L54]

He won't be pitching with a new ball but he'll certainly have to get used to throwing the different baseball that is used in North America.

 

Lol no

 

Professional athlete. He’ll be able to throw the baseball just fine

 

Not every minute detail is seen as a massive obstacle for foreign players

[Spanky99]

What you folks don't seem to understand is most of these guys growing up playing travel ball and high school play everywhere, most pitchers in the big leagues were star SS's for their given team or CF, etc... LHP's usually 1B and LF, it's not that big a transition as long as you get some reps in. If you have elite tools, it isn't that hard. Tools and instinct take care of the rest, Kim is 25, has the tools, it won't be that hard to transition to something he likely did a lot before pro ball. Seriously, versatility is a serious asset in pro ball, period. Martin's played a whopping 25 games at CF, lets pencil him in. Give me a break, it's all about your toolset. It's fairly black and white. Ask guys like L54, LG345(?), Hurl amongst many others, it's about as simple as that.

 

Lol no

 

Professional athlete. He’ll be able to throw the baseball just fine

 

Not every minute detail is seen as a massive obstacle for foreign players

 

Am I wrong here, bud?

[Jays24]

Its been 2 friggin months of me checking this forum daily hoping something meaningful breaks. Somebody sign already for f***s sake lol.

[Spanky99]

Its been 2 friggin months of me checking this forum daily hoping something meaningful breaks. Somebody sign already for f***s sake lol.

 

Who can you blame, they're all posturing... you likely wont see s*** in a day or 2, everyone f***offs for the holidays?

 

Free Agency has always been pulling teeth.

[saskjayfan]

Am I wrong here, bud?

 

Nope...I'm sure Kim's transition to centre field will go just as smoothly as Vlad's transition to first. Easy peasy.