General Offseason Discussion Thread

[Spanky99]

I'd put my money where my mouth is and slap down 500 bucks to a guy like Spanky to hold on to, which says that if healthy and if in the rotation for the entire year, Sanchez posts 14 wins or more with an ERA under 4....and even more, that those numbers improve after that. But we could start with that one if there are any takers. I hate the kids BB rate. But I love his stuff and I love even more that he's good friends with Stroman and that that would surely increase his confidence and learning curve. I love Sanchez although you just wanna reach out and bitchslap him sometimes.

 

Woah, now that's bold, the sad part about Sanchez is he should've been developing in the MILB the past season to be a starter. Working on mechanics other secondaries, etc...I hated that decision.

 

Edit: Same goes for Osuna.

[Spanky99]

I think you could make a case for trading Bautista for Betances. Maybe. Can't think of another one.

 

Get out?! Betances plus...?

[Spanky99]

Fair enough, I appreciate your candor as well. But I think the jays have enough young talent that they won't be missing any windows as widely as they may be open. Donaldson Tulo and EE aren't of the age yet where waiting a year to develop some pitching is going to put them out of their prime and render them useless as run producers and decent MLB players.

 

That's why my original thought was to trade Bautista. His production is still high but his age and attitude are uphill battles for him at this point in his career. So I'm totally in favor of trading him at this point. I don't think this team is going to be "put on hold" bu waiting a year to see how far Osuna and Sanchez develop. So trading JB for a number two front end starter and pushing Osuna and Sanchez back wouldn't hurt neither. My plan would just leave gaping holes in our bullpen is all so forgive me for my stupidity and just thank god that people like me aren't the one making the decision in Blue Jays land!

 

Now your getting it...

[BTS]

Get out?! Betances plus...?

 

Not saying I'd do it, necessarily, but you could defend it.

 

Bautista = ~ 4 wins + comp pick

Betances = 3 wins + $13M + another 3 years of control

 

It's a moot point anyway because I suspect he'll be retained, but value wise it wouldn't be a bad deal if they weren't going to re-sign him.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Get out?! Betances plus...?

 

Judge

[Emz]

Bautista seems to take really good care of his body

 

I agree

 

http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/2014/07/08/957/n/1922398/c243d6c1fb884620_jose-bautista2/i/Jose-Bautista-Baseball-2012.jpg

[Belliss101]

I don't mean to be a troglodyte? But honestly, Let Popmey and Pillar play and you have a much better defense out there. I mean Bautista is a cross between Canseco and George bell, even on a good day! I know we'll miss his perennial 30 and 100 RBI and that's not easy to replace, but he's getting old and I think he's got decent trade value still.

 

1. Revere

2. Donaldson

3. Tulo

4. Encarnacion

5. Martin

6. Smoak

7. Pompey

8. Pillar

9. Goins

 

The only thing I worry about too much there is having Martin protect the wingmeister. But this organization has to let guys like Pompey, Sanchez and Osuna play where they are meant to play and where they will for years to come. Pitching and defense wins a lot of games man, you know that! I'd love to see with a full year of experience, what Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna can do on the rotation and with Estrada and Hutch?Dickey behind them, I think they will be ok. It leaves the bullpen needing three solid arms and if Bautista could give us two of those? Buy a closer and this team can paly to win. That's my warped perception anyhow. I would have loved to see them sacrifice this year in order for next year to have a starting five of Stroman, Osuna, Norris, Estrada, Sanchez?

 

Please take Smoak out of your starting lineup. Guy can't hit. Swing is much too long. I'm okay with him only if he's platooning I guess. I personally prefer Bello.

[93 Jays]

Woah, now that's bold, the sad part about Sanchez is he should've been developing in the MILB the past season to be a starter. Working on mechanics other secondaries, etc...I hated that decision.

 

Edit: Same goes for Osuna.

 

Couldn't agree with you more brother. Command of that sinker makes him a bona fide beast. Even now when he throws it out of the bullpen, he rarely gets hit and hitters know its coming. That alone tells you how good his stuff is and if he'd learn to mix speeds a bit and throw his curve a bit more, he'd be even more of a beast. That's why I don't agree with trading an asset like JB for samardja, when we already have a younger version of him with more movement and velocity. If we're trading for an asset, maybe a lefty to throw a curve at opposing lineups.

 

I'd sign EE over JB in a heartbeat

[Spanky99]

Not saying I'd do it, necessarily, but you could defend it.

 

Bautista = ~ 4 wins + comp pick

Betances = 3 wins + $13M + another 3 years of control

 

It's a moot point anyway because I suspect he'll be retained, but value wise it wouldn't be a bad deal if they weren't going to re-sign him.

 

Forgot about the comp pick, but yeah, that'll never happen.

[jaysblue]

How often do playoff teams with no financial issues trade franchise cornerstones on affordable deals? Almost never in my experience.

 

I likely don't see the Jays trading Bautista since he's considered a franchise cornerstone and it wouldn't be the greatest PR move, though he is a free agent after 2016 and likely will demand $20 M per season on a 4 or 5 year deal. He's not going to give the Blue Jays a discount (he already did after 2010). This would be his last big deal, so I'm sure Bautista is going to want to get paid. I hope the Jays could keep Bautista around, though paying a player 20+ million/per year as he enters his 40's isn't the most logical thing to do. You obviously don't want to lose Bautista and get nothing in return. So it's not that irrational of an idea as you think it is. If the Jays can't sign any top starters for big money like Price, then going the trade route seems most rational. Trading one of EE or Bautista this offseason I'm sure will be discussed internally.

[BTS]

I likely don't see the Jays trading Bautista since he's considered a franchise cornerstone and it wouldn't be the greatest PR move, though he is a free agent after 2016 and likely will demand $20 M per season on a 4 or 5 year deal. He's not going to give the Blue Jays a discount (he already did after 2010). This would be his last big deal, so I'm sure Bautista is going to want to get paid. I hope the Jays could keep Bautista around, though paying someone 20+ million/per year as he enters his 40's isn't the most logical thing to do. You obviously don't want to lose Bautista and get nothing in return. So it's not that irrational of an idea as you think it is.

 

Yeah. I'd be shocked if there's a discount. He's been underpaid through a long stretch as one of the games elite players. He'll be looking to exceed V-Mart money.

[jaysblue]

Yeah. I'd be shocked if there's a discount. He's been underpaid through a long stretch as one of the games elite players. He'll be looking to exceed V-Mart money.

 

Doubt he would ever sign here, though how much do you think Jason Heyward will get this offseason as a FA? He'd be a perfect replacement in RF if the Jays decided to trade Bautista and would give the lineup a left-handed bat in the middle of the order.

[glory]

The Jays need to retool. They can still make the playoffs next season (either division or one of the Wild Card's), but it will require a complete makeover of the starting rotation. Beyond 2016 is when it gets messy as Bautista and Edwin are free agents, and at that point Martin and Tulo will be making $40m combined, and Donaldson's arbitration raise will likely be around $15m or more. Unless they field a rotation like the Mets currently have, it would be hard to re-sign everyone and maintain competitiveness. The last thing they should do is re-sign everyone and become the Ruben Amaro JR Phillies.

 

A few points:

 

- Let Price go and don't look back. A 7 year deal at $30m a year for a starter in his 30's is certifiably insane. Let another team get stuck with that deal. He was a rental, and we got 12 starts out of him. Enjoy it for what it was and move on.

 

- Use leftover money to sign good starters. That's a no brainer, but I mean good as in mid-rotation types (Chen types). Don't blow the load on 1 guy like Price. Spread it around and have a rotation full of quality arms, and hope Stroman becomes the ace. A rotation that is deep 1-5 with this lineup will win a lot of games.

 

- Keep Sanchez in the pen, stretch Osuna out. I don't know how this is going to work, since Osuna can't possibly be counted on to throw more than 100 something innings next year, but he's the guy with the repertoire to be a starter. Sanchez is a reliever. Period.

[Laika]

Doubt he would ever sign here, though how much do you think Jason Heyward will get this offseason as a FA? He'd be a perfect replacement in RF if the Jays decided to trade Bautista and would give the lineup a left-handed bat in the middle of the order.

 

Heyward is so young that he could conceivably get a 10 year deal. I think his market could push up towards 10 years and like, $220M. The absolute minimum he should get would be the Ellsbury deal.

[Spanky99]

Moving discussions to different threads is over moderation IMO. Discussions should be able to follow a natural course as long as nobody is trolling. This isn't HFboards.

 

What's this about, lol?

[Spanky99]

The Jays need to retool. They can still make the playoffs next season (either division or one of the Wild Card's), but it will require a complete makeover of the starting rotation. Beyond 2016 is when it gets messy as Bautista and Edwin are free agents, and at that point Martin and Tulo will be making $40m combined, and Donaldson's arbitration raise will likely be around $15m or more. Unless they field a rotation like the Mets currently have, it would be hard to re-sign everyone and maintain competitiveness. The last thing they should do is re-sign everyone and become the Ruben Amaro JR Phillies.

 

A few points:

 

- Let Price go and don't look back. A 7 year deal at $30m a year for a starter in his 30's is certifiably insane. Let another team get stuck with that deal. He was a rental, and we got 12 starts out of him. Enjoy it for what it was and move on.

 

- Use leftover money to sign good starters. That's a no brainer, but I mean good as in mid-rotation types (Chen types). Don't blow the load on 1 guy like Price. Spread it around and have a rotation full of quality arms, and hope Stroman becomes the ace. A rotation that is deep 1-5 with this lineup will win a lot of games.

 

- Keep Sanchez in the pen, stretch Osuna out. I don't know how this is going to work, since Osuna can't possibly be counted on to throw more than 100 something innings next year, but he's the guy with the repertoire to be a starter. Sanchez is a reliever. Period.

 

I really do enjoy your posts, except for when the overzealous hate of Gibbons gets drawn into discussion, it's not very becoming when it's repeated over and over for months at a time. Quality post brah! Seriously.

[BigCecil]

The Jays need to retool. They can still make the playoffs next season (either division or one of the Wild Card's), but it will require a complete makeover of the starting rotation. Beyond 2016 is when it gets messy as Bautista and Edwin are free agents, and at that point Martin and Tulo will be making $40m combined, and Donaldson's arbitration raise will likely be around $15m or more. Unless they field a rotation like the Mets currently have, it would be hard to re-sign everyone and maintain competitiveness. The last thing they should do is re-sign everyone and become the Ruben Amaro JR Phillies.

 

A few points:

 

- Let Price go and don't look back. A 7 year deal at $30m a year for a starter in his 30's is certifiably insane. Let another team get stuck with that deal. He was a rental, and we got 12 starts out of him. Enjoy it for what it was and move on.

 

- Use leftover money to sign good starters. That's a no brainer, but I mean good as in mid-rotation types (Chen types). Don't blow the load on 1 guy like Price. Spread it around and have a rotation full of quality arms, and hope Stroman becomes the ace. A rotation that is deep 1-5 with this lineup will win a lot of games.

 

- Keep Sanchez in the pen, stretch Osuna out. I don't know how this is going to work, since Osuna can't possibly be counted on to throw more than 100 something innings next year, but he's the guy with the repertoire to be a starter. Sanchez is a reliever. Period.

 

These are reasonable propositions. Argument on Price is sound.

[jaysblue]

What would you say Osuna's ceiling is as a starter?

[Spanky99]

What would you say Osuna's ceiling is as a starter?

 

Badass...seriously a #2, possibly better. Likely a 2, I'm confident in that.

[Jellz]

What would you say Osuna's ceiling is as a starter?

 

Probably a #3, his secondary pitches are still inconsistent and his fastball command will have to improve. I expect him to struggle in his first season as a starter.

[o2cui2i]

What would you say Osuna's ceiling is as a starter?

 

it will be interesting to see what they do with him next year. He's got stuff for days, but even after the innings he pitched this year he probably can't make 25 starts next year. he had 70 innings regular season this year and had never thrown more than 43. Not sure they can expect him to go from 43 to 70 and then 150?

 

Stuff wise I can see him being a solid 2. His slider has come a long way this year and it will be better by the time April rolls around.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

I know we need starters but Osuna says he likes being closer also I believe.

So what is wrong with him being our Elite Closer going Forward.

If he remains a closer do you buy out his option years and pay him a lil more now and to save on him later!

 

What would be fair 10years, first five at 2-2.5 mill, next five at 3-4 mill with raise of half a mill per year 7-10

[o2cui2i]

I know we need starters but Osuna says he likes being closer also I believe.

So what is wrong with him being our Elite Closer going Forward.

If he remains a closer do you buy out his option years and pay him a lil more now and to save on him later!

 

What would be fair 10years, first five at 2-2.5 mill, next five at 3-4 mill with raise of half a mill per year 7-10

 

while he's a closer his mind set has to be that he loves being a closer. that will be completely different when the off season hits. Big bucks are for starters and pitchers don't aim at being a reliever when they are 20

[THANOS]

What would you say Osuna's ceiling is as a starter?

 

With his repertoire and pure stuff, Carlos Carrasco imho. Similar fastball as a starter, nasty slider, great change, and a cutter in place of the curve.

 

They both have a bulldog mentality, great command, and strikeout stuff.

[AdamGreenwood]

So, in 2016, we should have:

 

1) Kevin Pillar: I don't think anyone expected him to be this good, except overly optimistic young Hebrew-speakers.

2) Michael Saunders: We've pretty much forgotten about him, but he's a solid player that we need to make room for, and we have control for one more year.

3) Dalton Pompey: Good young player with a ton of potential, that is a natural CF'er.

 

In the corner outfield spots, we have Jose Bautista and Ben Revere.

What should be done to clean up this mess?

[GreekFatAss]

It won't matter when Saunders is non tendered and Pompey is dealt for Carrasco.

[mellowgold]

Sell high on KP (ideally trade for a young, controllable #2/3 starter).

Let the other four split time in the OF with Bautista starting to play more at 1b/dh.

[jays_fever]

Well Bautista needs to get out of the OF, whether he shifts to DH or 1B next year. He's been quite awful out there all year

[Krylian]

It won't matter when Saunders is non tendered and Pompey is dealt for Carrasco.

 

Did you hear of the deal that Cleveland already turned down from us?

[Jonn]

I don't think Bautista would complain about First Base as long as they told him well in advance. He actually has pretty good hands in the infield I think his first base transition would be pretty easy.