General Offseason Discussion Thread

[crmr]

Actually another interesting option is Samardzjia. He's no ace and if the White Sox don't qualify him (It's uncertain at this point) you can maybe grab him for a solid 2 year deal

[crmr]

talent wise pompey is the best OF the Jays have. He is a five tool player. It is experience that he lacks

 

JB is starting to be a trainwreck in RF. his defensive metrics are bottom 5 for qualified RF. However his bat and power are awesome so he keeps that spot. Pillar/Pompey/Revere/Saunders give you the depth to cover LF and CF.

 

They aren't going to deal with the bitching Jose will come up with if they move him to RF. They're either going to extend him this year or it will be his FA year and they won't want to burn that bridge by pushing him to 1b this year.

[G-Snarls]

They're not going to qualify Estrada at $16MM and may not do so with Buehrle. Those guys have barely been worth that much this year and Estrada in particular isn't very good. Throw in Dickey and you're talking about committing $44MM to three starting pitchers who don't move the needle. I'll pass and give some of those starts to Hutch and Osuna.

 

Hmmmm. You're probably right. They'll keep Dickey for sure. But the other two aren't worth those kind of $. I think I'd actually rather use the combined $ it would take to retain/qualify Estrada/Buerhle and pony up 25M a year for Price, gambling that you get 2 average starters from among Hutch/Osuna/Sanchez.

[crmr]

Estrada isn't a decent guy though and $16MM is a lot. He was a non-tender candidate at $3.9MM this year and nothing about his talent profile has changed.

 

Some of you guys are going overboard on the "innings factor." It's one thing to have a one or two below-average guys in your rotation who you can depend on for 30 starts, it's quite another to have three. If Dickey, Buehrle and Estrada are in your rotation, your rotation will be hard-pressed to be above-average as a unit.

 

To be fair I'm suggesting that they don't qualify Buehrle, which would give them two. I don't believe much in these $war metrics but according to fangraphs Estrada has been worth 12.4 mil this year, bump that up to about 13.5 for ros + inflation and having a guy for one year is solid, with the chance he doesn't accept and you get a pick (maybe) seems fairly safe.

[Trouba95]

Can we wait until this season is in the books? Is it just me or is this Leafs' mentality?

[crmr]

Can we wait until this season is in the books? Is it just me or is this Leafs' mentality?

 

No we can't. People are excited about what next year could bring given that the whole offence is back and we get Travis for a whole year (maybe). So, it's interesting to discuss what sort of things we can do to make the team a solid WS contender next year too

[burlingtonbandit]

talent wise pompey is the best OF the Jays have. He is a five tool player. It is experience that he lacks

 

JB is starting to be a trainwreck in RF. his defensive metrics are bottom 5 for qualified RF. However his bat and power are awesome so he keeps that spot. Pillar/Pompey/Revere/Saunders give you the depth to cover LF and CF.

 

C'mon man there is no way Pompey has more talent than Bautista, even Saunders. Pompey has 1 outstanding tool in his speed and he probably can become a good defender with repetition. But the bat is still a huge question mark.

 

And I hate the "5 tool" player classification. You can have a "3 tool" player be better than a "5 tool" player because some tools are worth more than others. Besides the point when has Pompey showed he has an average arm? Even the power hasn't really showed up yet.

[Maahfaace]

Estrada isn't a decent guy though and $16MM is a lot. He was a non-tender candidate at $3.9MM this year and nothing about his talent profile has changed.

 

Some of you guys are going overboard on the "innings factor." It's one thing to have a one or two below-average guys in your rotation who you can depend on for 30 starts, it's quite another to have three. If Dickey, Buehrle and Estrada are in your rotation, your rotation will be hard-pressed to be above-average as a unit.

 

It's blows my mind how some on this board don't see Estrada for what he is, a soft tossing righty with ok k ability who is more of 4.5 true talent era guy. He's not worth 16 mil. He shouldn't be qualified, jays should let him walk and let some other franchise sign him to an overpriced deal. This is the kind of signing I would expect from an Amaro Jr if he were still calling the shots in Phi. Good franchises don't pay for career years on meh pitchers they let the dumbass' of the league take care of that......

[JaysRap]

Wishlist - Chris Davis. MURDER'S ROW.

[Krylian]

2016 Wishlist:

 

The second of World Series Back-to-Back Titles

[Maahfaace]

2016 wishlist: 50 million lottery ticket win.....then 2% stake in jays ownership

[art_vandelay275]

I agree about not tendering Estrada. IMO, $16M is not fair market price for where he slots into the rotation. Even if we non-tender, I still think there is a chance he'll re-sign if he believes a big part of his success is tied to this team (offense and game calling) although his buddy Navvy will probably be somewhere else

 

As for Dickey, I would separate out the business and baseball pieces. His option is makes good economical sense so we should pick it up. Baseball wise, it's really a pain to have a knuckleballer in the rotation. It's the unpredictability and all that but then he needs his own catcher, at least some of the time or else you are killing your big investment in Martin. So you have Thole as backup? It's just screws the whole roster up. I'd rather hope that because he has a "team friendly" terms and can "eat innings', some other teams will take the plunge...

 

 

 

It's blows my mind how some on this board don't see Estrada for what he is, a soft tossing righty with ok k ability who is more of 4.5 true talent era guy. He's not worth 16 mil. He shouldn't be qualified, jays should let him walk and let some other franchise sign him to an overpriced deal. This is the kind of signing I would expect from an Amaro Jr if he were still calling the shots in Phi. Good franchises don't pay for career years on meh pitchers they let the dumbass' of the league take care of that......

[Krylian]

I agree about not tendering Estrada. IMO, $16M is not fair market price for where he slots into the rotation. Even if we non-tender, I still think there is a chance he'll re-sign if he believes a big part of his success is tied to this team (offense and game calling) although his buddy Navvy will probably be somewhere else

 

As for Dickey, I would separate out the business and baseball pieces. His option is makes good economical sense so we should pick it up. Baseball wise, it's really a pain to have a knuckleballer in the rotation. It's the unpredictability and all that but then he needs his own catcher, at least some of the time or else you are killing your big investment in Martin. So you have Thole as backup? It's just screws the whole roster up. I'd rather hope that because he has a "team friendly" terms and can "eat innings', some other teams will take the plunge...

 

No chance he re-signs.

 

The Jays have bigger fish to fry, and there will be a team that gives him 4 years and $50M based on this season. I'm not sure I'd want to commit that to Estrada. God bless him for what he's done this year...but I'm never comfortable with those soft tossers on the mound.

[art_vandelay275]

It's funny that I see your post here and also your GDT. And you mention the Leafs. For some reason, I am ok with talking about this but during the game often times, you are putting into words what is going on in the back of head as I see scenarios unfolding during a game. And the weird thing is that I attribute it more to the Leafs than the Jays. Early in the season when the BP was blowing leads, every time we had a lead going into 6th or 7th, it was a "sign" that we were going to loose ... and it always came back down to mapping that situation with the Jays to how so many years ago, Leafs had done something similar.

 

It's just weird ...

 

Can we wait until this season is in the books? Is it just me or is this Leafs' mentality?

[Atothe]

Even if you like Pompey as a player why go into the season counting on him as a starter when you have much better options already in place? I don't think there is any doubt Saunders is a better LF than Pompey talent wise, even Revere for that matter. I think what Revere is right now is what you hope Pompey could turn into (talking about next season).

 

Pompey has never had health issues, better defensive profile and he's cheap, so right off the the bat he is a better asset then Saunders going forward. Pompey plays CF, Revere does, Pompey has doubles power. Revere does not. Pompey is cheap!!!! You need cheap talented players on this roster.

[thatoneguy]

solraC ocsarraC

[Vancouverite]

I think the question is - do you plan on the Cola/Smoak platoon at 1st next year, or move Jose there? If you take Jose out of the mix in RF, then I'm not overly comfortable with Revere/Piller/Pompey/Saunders....although I could totally see that being the situation with high hopes that Saunders proves some value and Pompey proves he can be a ML regular.

 

I personally don't see a OF combination of Revere Pillar Saunders Bautista and Pompey as a weakness for this team at all. Unlike the traditional team, we have the potential to get premium offensive contributions from our SS 2B and C positions. We have many options in our IF, JD Tulo Travis EE Martin and Cola/Smoke that we could get away with a light hitting OF that focuses on D.

 

That said... hate him or love him, I want to see Pillar back in CF to start next year... his defense is to valuable and he is projected to be our 9th hitter next year... which may make him one of the top 9th hitters in the game.

 

LF - Revere... no question about it, his skillet compliments this team perfectly

 

RF - I would personally platoon Saunders / Bautista in RF... the rest of our defensive positions are all above average so we can get away with a less productive Bautista in RF... very hard to have 8 gold glove candidates in a line up. But what I mean by platoon is just for defensive purposes.. not in the everyday line up. I would just like to see Bautista DH a little bit more and have EE play some 1B.. let's say for 40 -50 games or give Bautista some games at 1B to save his legs a bit. As for Saunders... I would like the Jays to try him our at 1B. He has the length and the athleticism. . And it may be good for his knees / hip.. there may be some growing pains but a 1B platoon of Cola vs LHP and Saunders vs RHP at 1B with EE/JB playing ocassional 1B and Saunders covering some RF may not be a bad idea to try out.

 

I believe that's an area of our team that we can experiment with as we argueball have A+ defenders at LF CF 3B SS 2B and C. And frankly.. 1B and RF may be the least demanding positions to play in the AL east when u consider the small ball parks and foul territories on the right siDE of the field.

[burlingtonbandit]

Pompey has never had health issues, better defensive profile and he's cheap, so right off the the bat he is a better asset then Saunders going forward. Pompey plays CF, Revere does, Pompey has doubles power. Revere does not. Pompey is cheap!!!! You need cheap talented players on this roster.

 

never said Pompey wasn't the better asset I said whos going to provide more value in 2016 and that would be Saunders/Revere.

[Spanky99]

Stay Healthy!

[Spanky99]

Abay bhai lets first win this year yar

 

<-----Cricket talk.

[Spanky99]

You know who talks about 2016 wishlists in September 2015? 2015 Detroit Tigers fans. This is a thread to be rehashed in 6 weeks from now. Jays fans have been programmed to be like Cubs fans I guess..."we'll get them next year!"

 

rt.

[Spanky99]

Can we wait until this season is in the books? Is it just me or is this Leafs' mentality?

 

Yer dumn.

[Jimcanuck]

lets start with #1 - trade high on Cola

[Deadpool]

Wishlist - Chris Davis. MURDER'S ROW.

 

HARD pass.

[fireballW]

Why would anybody give Estrada 16 million? He won't get more than ten from another team. I think people are really overestimating what his value around the league is. I bet you could sign him for around 2/17 if you wanted. Or you could go out and get someone else because there are guys like him seemingly available each year for much cheaper.

[fireballW]

I don't trust Dickey but it'd be hard not to have him back on his salary. I also think Osuna should start. I like MB more so all of these decisions are really hard for me to figure out.

[Mikeleelop]

The Jays are set up to be pretty strong for a couple years (2016 anyway for JB and EE) with the everyday lineup they currently have and control.

 

my wishlist would include the following

 

1. sign Price - you need an ace/anchor for the pitching staff

2. trade for Chapman - truly solidify the closer and allow Osuna to start

3. sign next year's Lowe for the bullpen

4. qualify Buehrle

5. qualify Estrada? not sure on this, probably like to sign him for 2 or 3 years

6. pick up Dickey option

7. pick up EE and JB options

 

SP - Price, Stroman, Dickey, Hutchison, Estrada, Sanchez, Osuna

RP - Sanchez, Osuna, Cecil, Schultz, Tepera, Hendricks, Loup and whatever else is picked up

 

I have upped my dream off season - I now HOPE jays sign Price and Smardj. Gives you Price, STro, Smardj, Hutch and Sanchez starting

 

pick up EE and JB options - keeps lineup in tact. have Pompey/Pillar battle in centre. have Goins/Travis battle at 2B

 

Bullpen - will be a hodgepodge of whatever AA scrapes together anyway

[Nafro]

true love. or at least, a new identity and new personality to help me find true love.

 

^This and a million dollars.

[Atothe]

I have upped my dream off season - I now HOPE jays sign Price and Smardj. Gives you Price, STro, Smardj, Hutch and Sanchez starting

 

pick up EE and JB options - keeps lineup in tact. have Pompey/Pillar battle in centre. have Goins/Travis battle at 2B

 

Bullpen - will be a hodgepodge of whatever AA scrapes together anyway

 

Sanchez can't even relieve bro. Starter hahaha

[500LevelSTH]

Jays are actually set up pretty good in the starting 9 plus bench

 

Revere and Donaldson Arb, Josh will get big raise from $4.3m.

Bautista & Edwin opts $14m and $10m respectively

Tulo signed $20m

Martin signed $15m

Smoak arb (fa 2017) will get bump from $1m

Pillar and Goins both pre arb and making $500+k

- that group could be retained for $80-85m, and theres still Pompey, Saunders, Travis to come into factor

 

Bello FA, Navarro FA (likely gone)

Saunders arb (fa 2017)

Pompey pre arb

Pennington FA

barney Arb (fa 2017)

Carerra

 

With no Price....defo need to sign a big arm in rotation, and add one to Pen if Osuna starts.

Stroman pre arb

Dickey $12m opt

Osuna pre arb

Cecil arb (coming off $2.48m, should get a nice raise)

Hutch pre arb

Buehrle FA (coming off $20m)

Sabche pre arb

Lowe Fa

Hendricka pre arb

 

The best part of pen is its age, 20,28,22,32,26,27,24. Lots of future.

Now lets get back to 2015 and the world series first.