General Offseason Discussion Thread

[BTS]

Norris has had his share of control problems throughtout his career and he's yet to turn it around consistently. I think he still has ways to go to be considered a highly missed asset and probably best suited pitching for a team rebuilding at the mlb level than a team on the edge of contending. I think it was a solid trade for everyone and as you mentioned, Price has spoke highly of Toronto, he's not a Paplebon type. Even if he doesn't sign here, I think his presence and success while here is added value for attracting future FA talent.

 

I don't really understand the desire to keep Price. He's going to exceed 210M on a 7-year deal and he's already 30. If they do that, they have him, Martin, Tulo, and Donaldson locked in at ~90M, with Bautista and Edwin costing another 40+ if they're retained. I really think they should be looking at 2nd-tier free agent arms like Chen, Anderson, Leake, Lacke, Samardzija, Latos. Preferably on a 1-year commitment.

 

Bautista, Edwin, Dickey, Cecil and Smoak all hit free agency after next year. A big pitching contract this offseason could really tie their hands.

[reedjohnsonfan]

I don't really understand the desire to keep Price. He's going to exceed 210M on a 7-year deal and he's already 30. If they do that, they have him, Martin, Tulo, and Donaldson locked in at ~90M, with Bautista and Edwin costing another 40+ if they're retained. I really think they should be looking at 2nd-tier free agent arms like Chen, Anderson, Leake, Lacke, Samardzija, Latos. Preferably on a 1-year commitment.

 

Bautista, Edwin, Dickey, Cecil and Smoak all hit free agency after next year. A big pitching contract this offseason could really tie their hands.

 

They should be targeting Samardzija (and Heyward but that won't happen). Keep Dickey and you have a decent top 3 with a great offense and hopefully Hutchison improves.

[Stangstag]

I don't really understand the desire to keep Price. He's going to exceed 210M on a 7-year deal and he's already 30. If they do that, they have him, Martin, Tulo, and Donaldson locked in at ~90M, with Bautista and Edwin costing another 40+ if they're retained. I really think they should be looking at 2nd-tier free agent arms like Chen, Anderson, Leake, Lacke, Samardzija, Latos. Preferably on a 1-year commitment.

 

Bautista, Edwin, Dickey, Cecil and Smoak all hit free agency after next year. A big pitching contract this offseason could really tie their hands.

 

I'm in the same boat as you, but I'm still iffy on Dickey. But yeah, we should forget about Price and his 200+ million contract and go after guys like Anderson, Shark, etc.

 

I don't really want to give more than a 5 year contract if the pitcher is already 30.

[Governator]

Are you guys totally against resigning Estrada? I know his peripherals aren't great but if he's able to be had as an affordable 5th starter, I'd consider it. He gives a lot of flexibility between long arm relief or capable starter. I'd prefer Stroman, FA Pitcher, Dickey, 1 of Hutchison/Osuna/Sanchez, and possibly Estrada. I don't think they will tie up a ton of money on an ace and I believe Stroman is going to be our man anyway.

[RealAccountant]

I'd have him back for 2/24 anything else no thanks

 

Right now we are looking at Dickey Hutch and Stroman. We need two starters with no one ready to step in. 1 of those starters has to be a front of the rotation type

[RealAccountant]

Price value might have taken a hit

[Wolf]

They better re-sign Price. Every playoff/contending team has an ACE. Price is a legit #1, a true ace.

[jaysblue]

I wouldn't be shocked to see AA trade one of Bautista or EE this offseason if he can't lock one of them up in order to add a top starter. For example, trade Bautista for a top veteran starter and sign Heyward to play RF (as well as give the Jays lineup some balance with a LHB in the middle of the order).

[jaysblue]

I don't really understand the desire to keep Price. He's going to exceed 210M on a 7-year deal and he's already 30. If they do that, they have him, Martin, Tulo, and Donaldson locked in at ~90M, with Bautista and Edwin costing another 40+ if they're retained. I really think they should be looking at 2nd-tier free agent arms like Chen, Anderson, Leake, Lacke, Samardzija, Latos. Preferably on a 1-year commitment.

 

Bautista, Edwin, Dickey, Cecil and Smoak all hit free agency after next year. A big pitching contract this offseason could really tie their hands.

 

Any top pitchers that could be on the trade market? Might be AA's best option to add another ace, rather than dishing out 7-year deals for arms like Price or Greinke. I'd definitely go after Shark on a 1 or 2 year deal, I'm sure the Blue Jays will be all over him this offseason.

[EMK19]

Are you guys totally against resigning Estrada? I know his peripherals aren't great but if he's able to be had as an affordable 5th starter, I'd consider it. He gives a lot of flexibility between long arm relief or capable starter. I'd prefer Stroman, FA Pitcher, Dickey, 1 of Hutchison/Osuna/Sanchez, and possibly Estrada. I don't think they will tie up a ton of money on an ace and I believe Stroman is going to be our man anyway.

 

The problem is that I'm guessing that he won't be asking for affordable 5th starter amount of money.

 

Another thing to consider is how his compatibility with Martin will be vs. Navarro (who may likely be gone next year).

[RealAccountant]

Shark is not going to sign here to rebuild his value. He is going to sign in NL West like all.other pitchers who want to rebuild their value

[jaysblue]

Are you guys totally against resigning Estrada? I know his peripherals aren't great but if he's able to be had as an affordable 5th starter, I'd consider it. He gives a lot of flexibility between long arm relief or capable starter. I'd prefer Stroman, FA Pitcher, Dickey, 1 of Hutchison/Osuna/Sanchez, and possibly Estrada. I don't think they will tie up a ton of money on an ace and I believe Stroman is going to be our man anyway.

 

Estrada will demand more money than the average 5th starter. I could see a team giving him a 3 or 4 year deal after the season he had. I'd rather the Blue Jays go out and sign Shark or Leake.

[Stangstag]

They better re-sign Price. Every playoff/contending team has an ACE. Price is a legit #1, a true ace.

 

Signing Price would be a bad idea.

[93 Jays]

My opinion is probably going to differ from a lot of peoples perspective on here but here it goes anyways.

 

1. Trade Bautista.....he still has great value to a team that is looking to boost their lineup. Even if a sign and trade has to happen, make it happen. My personal preference would be to go after a front end bullpen arm and I'll explain why,

 

2. Sign Encarnacion and keep him. He is a beast and he shores upo the middle of our lineup. Move Tulo inton Bautista's spot in the order.

 

3. Sign Estrada. He is an important middle of the rotation arm that come the end of the year, is important if the Jays contend again.

 

4. Rebuild the rotation. I know a lot of folks will disagree, but our rotation can be built to last and to contend. My rotation looks like this and my bullpen follows.

 

1. Stroman...big surprise here, this kid is a number one and will be for years to come.

2. Sanchez....part of my reason for wanting to trad JB for a back of the bullpen arm. This kid is a bona fide front end starter. We just need to suffer the growing pains with him and let him develop alongside Stroman who will help him gain confidence in a big way

3. Estrada...guys been a horse and I don't think this year was any fluke. He performed admirably through September

4. Osuna....Sorry to bleed the bullpen, but this kids value and natural position is as a starter. As I said with Sanchez, suffer the growing pains now to reap the rewards later in the year and for years to come

5. Either service Hutchison or trade him and re sign Dickey as a no. 5 where we can count on a guy to give you 12 or 13 wins. Service Hutchison and leave as our number 5 and that frees up the 13 million we aren't paying Dickey to help rebuild this bullpen.

 

Bullpen needs some obvious help now.

 

Hendricks

Cecil

Loup??

Schultz

 

Beyond this, our bullpen needs a serious rebuild. I think trading JB for a closer would close a big hole. Or maybe two solid bullpen arms and then sign a closer? I think this is a team that can contend and while many might be wary of both sanchez and Osuna as starters, that's their natural positions. Let them grow roots there and hopefully at least one of them flourishes at somewhere near the rate Stroman did. Those three arms along with Estrada and Dickey should be enough to carry us through until the point next year where we need to make another move for a rental like Price to put us over the hump.

[Spanky99]

Beyond this, our bullpen needs a serious rebuild. I think trading JB for a closer would close a big hole.

 

Uhmm... C'MON MAN!!!

[93 Jays]

I don't mean to be a troglodyte? But honestly, Let Popmey and Pillar play and you have a much better defense out there. I mean Bautista is a cross between Canseco and George bell, even on a good day! I know we'll miss his perennial 30 and 100 RBI and that's not easy to replace, but he's getting old and I think he's got decent trade value still.

 

1. Revere

2. Donaldson

3. Tulo

4. Encarnacion

5. Martin

6. Smoak

7. Pompey

8. Pillar

9. Goins

 

The only thing I worry about too much there is having Martin protect the wingmeister. But this organization has to let guys like Pompey, Sanchez and Osuna play where they are meant to play and where they will for years to come. Pitching and defense wins a lot of games man, you know that! I'd love to see with a full year of experience, what Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna can do on the rotation and with Estrada and Hutch?Dickey behind them, I think they will be ok. It leaves the bullpen needing three solid arms and if Bautista could give us two of those? Buy a closer and this team can paly to win. That's my warped perception anyhow. I would have loved to see them sacrifice this year in order for next year to have a starting five of Stroman, Osuna, Norris, Estrada, Sanchez?

[Spanky99]

I don't mean to be a troglodyte? But honestly, Let Popmey and Pillar play and you have a much better defense out there. I mean Bautista is a cross between Canseco and George bell, even on a good day! I know we'll miss his perennial 30 and 100 RBI and that's not easy to replace, but he's getting old and I think he's got decent trade value still.

 

1. Revere

2. Donaldson

3. Tulo

4. Encarnacion

5. Martin

6. Smoak

7. Pompey

8. Pillar

9. Goins

 

The only thing I worry about too much there is having Martin protect the wingmeister. But this organization has to let guys like Pompey, Sanchez and Osuna play where they are meant to play and where they will for years to come. Pitching and defense wins a lot of games man, you know that! I'd love to see with a full year of experience, what Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna can do on the rotation and with Estrada and Hutch?Dickey behind them, I think they will be ok. It leaves the bullpen needing three solid arms and if Bautista could give us two of those? Buy a closer and this team can paly to win. That's my warped perception anyhow. I would have loved to see them sacrifice this year in order for next year to have a starting five of Stroman, Osuna, Norris, Estrada, Sanchez?

 

You don't trade Bautista for a couple relievers man, and no, nor a closer. If you're moving Bautista you're looking for a starter +. Relievers are volatile and there's maybe a handful of bonafide closers in the league, this idea is awful. Sorry man.

[Grant77]

I wouldn't be shocked to see AA trade one of Bautista or EE this offseason if he can't lock one of them up in order to add a top starter. For example, trade Bautista for a top veteran starter and sign Heyward to play RF (as well as give the Jays lineup some balance with a LHB in the middle of the order).

 

How often do playoff teams with no financial issues trade franchise cornerstones on affordable deals? Almost never in my experience.

[G-Snarls]

Suggesting trading Jose Bautista for relief pitching should be grounds for a life time ban

[93 Jays]

You don't trade Bautista for a couple relievers man, and no, nor a closer. If you're moving Bautista you're looking for a starter +. Relievers are volatile and there's maybe a handful of bonafide closers in the league, this idea is awful. Sorry man.

 

No worries, no need to be sorry. I just don't think this team is in need of another starter either. I see much more value in having Sanchez and Osuna start. Rebuilding a bullpen is easier for the jays IMO, given the players they already have. I mean, if we could get even aguy like that Diekeman kid from Texas? Then use the rest of the money you save to sign another bullpen arm or two? I just think way too many people are thinking we need to buy off a starter when imo, we have way more than enough as it stands if we resign Estrada. Sanchez and Osuna are natural starters and they will grow into those roles. They simply need some time and patience.

 

Almost every Toronto fan I see wants to win now and sacrifice the future, when we HAVE the future right now, it's just going to take a few years to develop it.

[BTS]

Moving discussions to different threads is over moderation IMO. Discussions should be able to follow a natural course as long as nobody is trolling. This isn't HFboards.

[93 Jays]

Liam Hendriks is as good as any closer you're going to get. Trading one of your best players for relievers is an exceptionally bad idea.

 

The team needs to add a dependable starter or two and figure out what they're doing in LF/CF.

 

Contrary to popular belief I don't think Bautista is all that. He's a well below average defender and whines more than a f***ing cheese tester in Switzerland. I would like to see him long gone, especially if we could get the right pieces for him in return. I just don't think this team needs a starter right now, at least not one valuable enough to the team that could make up for what we lose with his departure. My opinion is that the Jays future is in the trio of Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna as starters. Let them grown and pitch their way through. Let them develop to see what you have. Instead, it's this never ending cycle of trading young pitching for a one year shot and as a fan, I have no interest in that.

 

I'd rather watch us lose for a year and see what experience gives that top 3 young trio for the years to come and I would love to have Norris in that mix still for not making the playoff this year. Let these pups pitch and see what they have before simply shipping it off for a crapshoot. Trading JB for relief probably is a bad idea, maybe trading him is a bad idea period? I just don't think for a single moment that the jays need any SP help whatsoever. Sanchez and Osuna and both great young arms who could BOTH easily turn out to be solid starters for years to come/

[dineke]

Doesn't Jose and Edwin have no trade clauses now?

[BTS]

Suggesting trading Jose Bautista for relief pitching should be grounds for a life time ban

 

I think you could make a case for trading Bautista for Betances. Maybe. Can't think of another one.

[dineke]

Contrary to popular belief I don't think Bautista is all that. He's a well below average defender and whines more than a f***ing cheese tester in Switzerland. I would like to see him long gone, especially if we could get the right pieces for him in return. I just don't think this team needs a starter right now, at least not one valuable enough to the team that could make up for what we lose with his departure. My opinion is that the Jays future is in the trio of Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna as starters. Let them grown and pitch their way through. Let them develop to see what you have. Instead, it's this never ending cycle of trading young pitching for a one year shot and as a fan, I have no interest in that.

 

I'd rather watch us lose for a year and see what experience gives that top 3 young trio for the years to come and I would love to have Norris in that mix still for not making the playoff this year. Let these pups pitch and see what they have before simply shipping it off for a crapshoot. Trading JB for relief probably is a bad idea, maybe trading him is a bad idea period? I just don't think for a single moment that the jays need any SP help whatsoever. Sanchez and Osuna and both great young arms who could BOTH easily turn out to be solid starters for years to come/

 

Sanchez sucks bro.

[93 Jays]

The problem with this futuristic thinking is that this team is deriving nearly all its goodness from expensive 30+ year old bats. If the Blue Jays are patient and try to wait for Osuna and Sanchez (who are far from transcendent prospects) and turn 2016 into a transition year, they will simply get worse and miss their window. Doing so won't set them up better for the future, it'll just be a waste of the prodigious value that Donaldson, Bautista, EE & Co. are currently producing.

 

If you want to advocate for a change in timelines, you really do have to push for the trading of both Bautista and EE and have specific players you want to target from teams who would actually want to pay big prices for the Jays veteran bats.

 

Fair enough, I appreciate your candor as well. But I think the jays have enough young talent that they won't be missing any windows as widely as they may be open. Donaldson Tulo and EE aren't of the age yet where waiting a year to develop some pitching is going to put them out of their prime and render them useless as run producers and decent MLB players.

 

That's why my original thought was to trade Bautista. His production is still high but his age and attitude are uphill battles for him at this point in his career. So I'm totally in favor of trading him at this point. I don't think this team is going to be "put on hold" bu waiting a year to see how far Osuna and Sanchez develop. So trading JB for a number two front end starter and pushing Osuna and Sanchez back wouldn't hurt neither. My plan would just leave gaping holes in our bullpen is all so forgive me for my stupidity and just thank god that people like me aren't the one making the decision in Blue Jays land!

[BTS]

I wonder who fans would be more comfortable giving a 4/80 deal to: Edwin or Bautista. Both are probably 1B in 2017 and beyond.

[93 Jays]

Sanchez sucks bro.

 

I'd put my money where my mouth is and slap down 500 bucks to a guy like Spanky to hold on to, which says that if healthy and if in the rotation for the entire year, Sanchez posts 14 wins or more with an ERA under 4....and even more, that those numbers improve after that. But we could start with that one if there are any takers. I hate the kids BB rate. But I love his stuff and I love even more that he's good friends with Stroman and that that would surely increase his confidence and learning curve. I love Sanchez although you just wanna reach out and bitchslap him sometimes.

[Laika]

I wonder who fans would be more comfortable giving a 4/80 deal to: Edwin or Bautista. Both are probably 1B in 2017 and beyond.

 

Bautista seems to take really good care of his body

[Spanky99]

Doesn't Jose and Edwin have no trade clauses now?

 

Yes.