2015 Trade Deadline Targets Thread.

[SAAviour]

"The issue is whether Toronto has enough talent to strike a deal. The Blue Jays would need to include most or all of their top prospects because the system is thin. I'm talking left-hander Daniel Norris, second baseman Devon Travis, outfielder Dalton Pompey and possibly a relief prospect"

 

No way AA is doing that for 2 players and 35 mil in contacts. f*** this writer!

[dineke]

I thought our farm system was good.

[Daniel Labude]

AA preparing to sink the future of this franchise to save his job?

 

Really can't see Travis being traded. We haven't had a 2nd baseman for yearrrrrrrrrrrs. Can't see AA trading one that we finally have that is young, controllable, and producing as a rookie. AA has to play this smart because if we dont make the playoffs or do and lose early, the team would be beyond bad next season

[Stangstag]

Why the hell are people wanting to trade Norris + Pompey for Hamels

 

Because Norris' ceiling is Hamels. And who knows if Pompey ever becomes an everyday player.

 

Hamels and Papelbon help us NOW and for the next couple of years. Norris and Pompey MIGHT help us 2016 and beyond.

 

I mean, yeah I would much rather trade all the Vets on the team that are close to being FAs, but do you really see our front office doing that? No.

[fireballW]

Because Norris' ceiling is Hamels. And who knows if Pompey ever becomes an everyday player.

 

Hamels and Papelbon help us NOW and for the next couple of years. Norris and Pompey MIGHT help us 2016 and beyond.

 

I mean, yeah I would much rather trade all the Vets on the team that are close to being FAs, but do you really see our front office doing that? No.

 

Are you guys really wanting to trade actual top prospects for these guys? Papelbon? God I hope you guys are talking about the Phillips taking on all of both contracts of we are giving up all those prospects.

[Frenchsoup]

That philly writer basically thinks 14mill and 7 mill are the same thing.

[Stangstag]

Are you guys really wanting to trade actual top prospects for these guys? Papelbon? God I hope you guys are talking about the Phillips taking on all of both contracts of we are giving up all those prospects.

 

I would expect the Phillies to pay around 1/3 of the remaining salaries if they want to get good prospects back.

[glory]

To me it's not about whether Norris pans out or not. He could be good, or he could be a bust. The point is to stick with a direction that involved developing your own talent rather than the alternative which we have done recently and seen fail. Who wants to see another Dickey/Marlins/Yan Gomes type of deal?

 

Doubling down on this roster that isn't even .500 at the All star break is ridiculous. Stop the madness.

[Deadpool]

I thought our farm system was good.

 

It is. This guy is mostly talking out of his ass.

 

To me it's not about whether Norris pans out or not. He could be good, or he could be a bust. The point is to stick with a direction that involved developing your own talent rather than the alternative which we have done recently and seen fail. Who wants to see another Dickey/Marlins/Yan Gomes type of deal?

 

There's a pretty substantial difference between Hamels and Dickey. And Norris and Pompey (loathe though I am to give either of them up) is a lesser package than Synder and d'Arnaud.

[glory]

There's a pretty substantial difference between Hamels and Dickey. And Norris and Pompey (loathe though I am to give either of them up) is a lesser package than Synder and d'Arnaud.

 

Lesser package but same philosophy. I don't mind acquiring Hamels because the rotation next season looks like a mess on paper, and Hamels would help that, but you can't keep doing the same types of moves and expect different results.

 

When AA was hired, there was talk about building a sustainable winner through player development. Obviously that turned out to be a load of s*** given what actually happened, but that's the direction this team needs to go in, especially with ownership that will spend one season and stop spending the next.

[flafson]

It's been reported that the Jays have $5-6m in cap room left. If that's true then they can add a $10-12m contact (more if the other team sends money. Do we really think Hamels AND Papelbon are viable?

 

There is also the theory that AA can convince Rogers that this is the right move and they should give him more money.

[Brownie19]

To me it's not about whether Norris pans out or not. He could be good, or he could be a bust. The point is to stick with a direction that involved developing your own talent rather than the alternative which we have done recently and seen fail. Who wants to see another Dickey/Marlins/Yan Gomes type of deal?

 

Doubling down on this roster that isn't even .500 at the All star break is ridiculous. Stop the madness.

 

Enough with this Yan Gomes thing. Nobody expected him to be a regular.

[gruber92]

Whatever AA does, just please don't get sucked in for Shields. The "Mr AL EAST DRAGON SLAYER" pitcher is gone. Taking on a $19mil per for the next 3.5 years with numbers you can get out of one of our younger pitchers, would spell disaster. His numbers in the NL combined with pitching at Petco would spell Drew Hutchison type numbers here.

 

 

Pass.

[glory]

Enough with this Yan Gomes thing. Nobody expected him to be a regular.

 

Probably because the organization had him playing third base instead of catcher where he's elite. That might cloud perceptions. Blame the org, not the fans who didn't predict it.

 

It is worth bringing up because the drafting under AA is actually pretty good, so don't give away prospects for no reason. Do what the Cardinals do (minus the hacking).

[Spanky99]

Whatever AA does, just please don't get sucked in for Shields. The "Mr AL EAST DRAGON SLAYER" pitcher is gone. Taking on a $19mil per for the next 3.5 years with numbers you can get out of one of our younger pitchers, would spell disaster. His numbers in the NL combined with pitching at Petco would spell Drew Hutchison type numbers here.

 

 

Pass.

 

Fallacy.

[Spanky99]

Wouldn't Beeston be the one doing to ownership for more coin? Regardless, if they could convince Rogers to open up the purse strings...cool. But I've seen enough from this ownership group to know not to hold my breath.

 

Yes it would be Beeston, and I agree, we'll see come the deadline.

[gruber92]

Fallacy.

 

17 HR given up so far says otherwise.

[Spanky99]

17 HR given up so far says otherwise.

 

Meh, there's stats that are park adjusted bro, you're either a good pitcher or you're not. He's a good pitcher. Depends on the asking price aswell, obviously.

[GD]

Whatever AA does, just please don't get sucked in for Shields. The "Mr AL EAST DRAGON SLAYER" pitcher is gone. Taking on a $19mil per for the next 3.5 years with numbers you can get out of one of our younger pitchers, would spell disaster. His numbers in the NL combined with pitching at Petco would spell Drew Hutchison type numbers here.

 

 

Pass.

 

You can't get 11 K/9, 3 BB/9, 13.6% Whiff rate and a 3.25 SIERA (3.4 projected ERA) out of our young guns. He's still a durable ace. People who love Buehrle will love Shields more.

[Brownie19]

Probably because the organization had him playing third base instead of catcher where he's elite. That might cloud perceptions. Blame the org, not the fans who didn't predict it.

 

It is worth bringing up because the drafting under AA is actually pretty good, so don't give away prospects for no reason. Do what the Cardinals do (minus the hacking).

 

I'd fire all the coaches and scouts then. One would assume AA simply listened to the people who worked with Gomes on a daily basis in the minors who suggested he couldn't stick behind the plate. Do you blame the Pirates for letting Jose go? Do you blame the Reds for letter Edwin go? Do you blame the Cubs for letting Donaldson go?

 

Sometimes in baseball - you get lucky. Different players "click" with different hitting coaches, or they figure it out at different points in their career. There are situations where there's nobody to blame and the Gomes one seems like it. For all we know, he actually dedicated himself to the weigh room and video room after being dealt to Cleveland, which gave him the stamina to become a fulltime catcher and the knowledge to be a good defensive catcher (look how much Iannetta improved his defense in one offseason).

[DuckDuckGose]

Fangraphs article - One way for the Jays to go for it

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/one-way-for-the-blue-jays-to-go-for-it/

 

TLDR; The Reds are trying to compete in 2016 and want to move rentals. Don't want prospects back, want guys that can contribute. oesn't think a Chapman + Cueto package makes sense for the Reds to deal. Proposes Cueto + Leake + Cingrani for Stroman

[GD]

Fangraphs article - One way for the Jays to go for it

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/one-way-for-the-blue-jays-to-go-for-it/

 

TLDR; The Reds are trying to compete in 2016 and want to move rentals. Don't want prospects back, want guys that can contribute. oesn't think a Chapman + Cueto package makes sense for the Reds to deal. Proposes Cueto + Leake + Cingrani for Stroman

 

http://media.giphy.com/media/JYZ397GsFrFtu/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[Spanky99]

Fangraphs article - One way for the Jays to go for it

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/one-way-for-the-blue-jays-to-go-for-it/

 

TLDR; The Reds are trying to compete in 2016 and want to move rentals. Don't want prospects back, want guys that can contribute. oesn't think a Chapman + Cueto package makes sense for the Reds to deal. Proposes Cueto + Leake + Cingrani for Stroman

 

Ugghhh...that looks so good, lol, especially if they swapped Saunders and Bruce. Oh but Stroman, is too good.

[Spanky99]

http://media.giphy.com/media/JYZ397GsFrFtu/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

 

lol

[GD]

Ugghhh...that looks so good, lol, especially if they swapped Saunders and Bruce. Oh but Stroman, is too good.

 

Cueto + Leake + Bruce for Norris/Hoffman + Saunders + DSJ/some other near-MLB piece/Matt boyd?

[DuckDuckGose]

Ugghhh...that looks so good, lol, especially if they swapped Saunders and Bruce. Oh but Stroman, is too good.

 

I like the return but hate the idea of giving up Stro. I'd offer Sanchez and specs and see if they bite.

[DuckDuckGose]

Cueto + Leake + Bruce for Norris/Hoffman + Saunders + DSJ/some other near-MLB piece/Matt boyd?

 

It's hard b/c Leake and Cueto are both going to get QO's. Need to beat out the comp pick. IMO Sanchez/Norris/Hoffman + Boyd is better than the two comp picks, so then you'd have to add for Cingrani and Bruce...

[Spanky99]

Cueto + Leake + Bruce for Norris/Hoffman + Saunders + DSJ/some other near-MLB piece/Matt boyd?

 

I wouldn't cry over that...

[gruber92]

You can't get 11 K/9, 3 BB/9, 13.6% Whiff rate and a 3.25 SIERA (3.4 projected ERA) out of our young guns. He's still a durable ace. People who love Buehrle will love Shields more.

Yeah but trading top prospects for a 33 year old while stuck with that contract would be dumb.

 

I'd rather trade EE to the Cardinals for Carlos Martinez. Maybe add Estrada and get back one of their back end relievers also. The Cardinals can absorb the pitching, since they have a ton, and can use 1.5 years of a team friendly contract in EE. They need power at first base as Reynolds and the other fodder isn't doing it. The Cardinals would love a 30 HR type at 1B. Would you do it? What a young controllable staff we could have for the next 4-5 years while Martinez also gives us the immediate help for this year. We won't miss EE.

 

Reyes (can also DH sometimes now)

Travis

JD

Bautista

Smoak

Martin

DH spot (probably Colabello)

Pillar

Pompey

[glory]

I'd fire all the coaches and scouts then. One would assume AA simply listened to the people who worked with Gomes on a daily basis in the minors who suggested he couldn't stick behind the plate. Do you blame the Pirates for letting Jose go? Do you blame the Reds for letter Edwin go? Do you blame the Cubs for letting Donaldson go?

 

Sometimes in baseball - you get lucky. Different players "click" with different hitting coaches, or they figure it out at different points in their career. There are situations where there's nobody to blame and the Gomes one seems like it. For all we know, he actually dedicated himself to the weigh room and video room after being dealt to Cleveland, which gave him the stamina to become a fulltime catcher and the knowledge to be a good defensive catcher (look how much Iannetta improved his defense in one offseason).

 

The deal was made because Kevin Cash, once scout for the Jays turned bullpen coach for the Indians, endorsed Gomes as a catcher to the Indians GM. Obviously someone in the org knew he was a catcher, it just wasn't someone AA valued, I guess.

 

Bautista, Edwin, and Donaldson are guys who developed with their bats late in their careers. Not the same as discarding a catcher by playing him at third and then seeing him be worth multiple wins the following season on defensive metrics alone. Gomes offense isn't even the biggest regret. It's the fact that the team so badly miscalculated his defensive value. Then you see how they handle their MLB team (with DH's playing LF, s***** framers like Navarro,, Bonehead at 2B, Reyes at short etc), and you realize that it took them way too long to see the value in defense (and it cost them $82m once they figured it out what Gomes was good at).

 

You are letting AA off easy by saying no one could have predicted it. Bautista breaking out offensively was unforeseen. A guy the Jays were paying knew Gomes was a catcher. Totally different scenario.