Offseason Roster Thread 2025-26

[Olerud363.354]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

is there anything to suggest Ernie could be a league average defender at SS?

His defensive metrics have always been great and he's played a lot of short stop.   According to baseball reference he was the best defensive player in baseball at 2.9 dWAR.  Scored well on fangraphs the last couple of years. 

He's scored high defensively with a mix of of all three middle infield positions so I'd be skeptical of claims he can't play short above average.  I think Giminez was just shifted there instead because Giminez is an even better defensive player, but Clement would be fine at short.

The only flaw in that theory, that these awesome defensive infielders should to be able to play short well is arm strength.  Maybe Clement doesn't have quite the arm you want at short.   I don't know that and I suppose could look it up on savante. 

 

[Olerud363.354]

5 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

The only flaw in that theory, that these awesome defensive infielders should to be able to play short well is arm strength.  Maybe Clement doesn't have quite the arm you want at short. 

According to Savant Ernie Celent is 98% range, and 25% arm.  Jiminez is 97 and 47.  Bo is 1 and 46.   Barger is 20 and 99.    

Who I would want at short if all I knew was statcast range and arm

1.  Jiminez

2. Clement

3. Barger

4. Vladimir Guerrero jr. 

5.  Bo Bichette

[jmomcc]

You techincally need a better arm to play short than third as the longest throw is in the hole, but that throw happens less than long throws at third. 

So clement should be better at short than third. Bichette should be best at third? 
 

also, i assume that's gimenez? 

6 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

According to Savant Ernie Celent is 98% range, and 25% arm.  Jiminez is 97 and 47.  Bo is 1 and 46.   Barger is 20 and 99.    

Who I would want at short if all I knew was statcast range and arm

1.  Jiminez

2. Clement

3. Barger

4. Vladimir Guerrero jr. 

5.  Bo Bichette

 

[Orgfiller]

7 minutes ago, Olerud363.354 said:

According to Savant Ernie Celent is 98% range, and 25% arm.  Jiminez is 97 and 47.  Bo is 1 and 46.   Barger is 20 and 99.    

Who I would want at short if all I knew was statcast range and arm

1.  Jiminez

2. Clement

3. Barger

4. Vladimir Guerrero jr. 

5.  Bo Bichette

lol @ Bo

Based on just this info alone, this is probably the right ordering. It's Gimenez and Ernie, then a huge jump to anyone else. In Bo's case he could regress somewhat to not being the worst defender in the sport at SS, maybe get healthy and gain back some athleticism. Barger is so stiff moving that I'd probably never want him anywhere near SS, he'd kind of be like Bobby Dalbec out there.

[Eat My Shatkins]

If they're willing and able to get both Bo and Tucker my ideal line up would be:

C Kirk

1B Vlad

2B Bo

3B Clement

SS Giminez

LF Tucker

CF Varsho

RF Barger

DH Springer

 

Taters would get reps in LF and DH

Clement would be all over the infield, 3B, 2B, 1B and SS

Barger would get some 3B

Speaking of 1B, jays don't really have anyone with experience at 1B. So unless they bring in someone else it's probably Clement who will spell Vladdy out once in a while? I wonder Tony Taters can take some reps there too? 

 

[Orgfiller]

39 minutes ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

If they're willing and able to get both Bo and Tucker my ideal line up would be:

C Kirk

1B Vlad

2B Bo

3B Clement

SS Giminez

LF Tucker

CF Varsho

RF Barger

DH Springer

 

Taters would get reps in LF and DH

Clement would be all over the infield, 3B, 2B, 1B and SS

Barger would get some 3B

Speaking of 1B, jays don't really have anyone with experience at 1B. So unless they bring in someone else it's probably Clement who will spell Vladdy out once in a while? I wonder Tony Taters can take some reps there too? 

 

Taters has some 1B MLB reps, especially in the last few years. I'm sure he'll get some reps there in ST to become the dedicated Vlad backup.

[Brownie19]

It certainly seems like there would be no shortage of at bats available for Clement.  

What an absolute stud he's become.  He's the glue.

[Terminator]

https://www.mlb.com/news/bo-bichette-defensive-position-in-future

 

Good article on Bo and his value depending on what he provides at SS vs. 2B.

[Spanky__99]

MLBTR Podcast on the Cease signing etc... taped prior to the addition of Ponce @ the 40 minute mark...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/12/mlbtr-podcast-an-agents-perspective-with-b-b-abbott-also-cease-williams-helsley-and-gray.html

[max silver]

5 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

Utility infielders average 400-500 PA's a year.  He doesn't need a "starting spot" to get starter PA's.

That said - I'm curious, is there anything to suggest Ernie could be a league average defender at SS?

I think Ernie may well be a plus defender at short stop. In his 584 innings at short stop as a Blue Jay (approximately half of a full season's worth of work) he's produced 9 DRS and 7 OAA.

[jmomcc]

I think they should try him at centre field. He has great instincts and range plus good sprint speed. His arm isn't great but the arm is probably less important there than in right ... maybe. If he can be league average, which isn't crazy imo.. he could be the varsho replacement next year, 

[Spanky__99]

36 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

I think they should try him at centre field. He has great instincts and range plus good sprint speed. His arm isn't great but the arm is probably less important there than in right ... maybe. If he can be league average, which isn't crazy imo.. he could be the varsho replacement next year, 

No thanks, man. You keep saying this but there's no need.

[The_DH]

Ernie Clement is the super sub we've always wanted to have, much like a Ben Zobrist.  Love to see him getting 400 AB's all through the infield.

[Jonn]

I prefer Ernie in the super sub role. But I think he should be playing a lot more Shortstop if Gimenez is the primary Shortstop going forward. I just don't know if you want Gimenez to get 600 at-bats in a Season.

[Spanky__99]

I find it hard to believe any contending team want's Bo in the 6 hole, he won't chase that money, it'll be 2nd base for a contender that matches, welcome back Kid. A consummate professional. 7/189 is my guess and a stud stopper, Edwin Diaz, f*** Tucker. 

That's a sick Org. Just sayin'

 

[GoBlue41]

Is it ok to be sentimental as a fan? I find myself cringing every time I see someone mentioning getting rid of or benching a Barger or Clement etc. even in trades that might net us something great. Maybe it's not exactly THE best scenario for the team going forward, but I want those guys in the lineup after what we all experienced with them last year and what they gave the team. I wanna run it back, but I wanna run it back with the same group and a few key additions. Am I crazy, not a good fan, or not the only one? 

[Spanky__99]

8 minutes ago, GoBlue41 said:

Is it ok to be sentimental as a fan? I find myself cringing every time I see someone mentioning getting rid of or benching a Barger or Clement etc. even in trades that might net us something great. Maybe it's not exactly THE best scenario for the team going forward, but I want those guys in the lineup after what we all experienced with them last year and what they gave the team. I wanna run it back, but I wanna run it back with the same group and a few key additions. Am I crazy, not a good fan, or not the only one? 

Stay calm, they aren't getting dealt unless it's ridiculous value.

 

[The_DH]

57 minutes ago, Jonn said:

I prefer Ernie in the super sub role. But I think he should be playing a lot more Shortstop if Gimenez is the primary Shortstop going forward. I just don't know if you want Gimenez to get 600 at-bats in a Season.

I would completely agree with this.  I'd have the guy appearing in 130+ games and none of the starters would be overworked.

[Bob_Gratton]

20 hours ago, Ray said:

Worth noting there's a ton of big money contracts coming off the books next season: Gausman, Springer, Bieber. Smaller ones like Straw, Garcia, Varsho, and Lauer as well.

I agree it feels financially irresponsible to sign both Bo and Tucker to long term deals unless we can swing a trade to offload salary, but they would only have a absurdly high payroll for 1 season before it tapers down again.

Varsho will be back for sure, and probably Springer and Bieber too. But Gausman, Lauer, Garcia no. Straw, this will depend if he agree for a smaller salary, and if we signed Tucker. Ideally Atkins should trade Berrios and Santander, even if this won't be easy, except if they are included with good prospects like King, Nimmala and few others in a blockbuster trade for someone like Fernando Tatis. 

[jmomcc]

3 hours ago, Spanky__99 said:

No thanks, man. You keep saying this but there's no need.

You can extend varsho who i do not think will age well, promote our non existent close cf prospects or trade capital for a centre fielder, or sign one in a terrible FA class next year. 

There absolutely is a need. 

[jmomcc]

49 minutes ago, Bob_Gratton said:

Varsho will be back for sure, and probably Springer and Bieber too. But Gausman, Lauer, Garcia no. Straw, this will depend if he agree for a smaller salary, and if we signed Tucker. Ideally Atkins should trade Berrios and Santander, even if this won't be easy, except if they are included with good prospects like King, Nimmala and few others in a blockbuster trade for someone like Fernando Tatis. 

We would need yesavage in any trade for tatis. 

[Spanky__99]

1 hour ago, jmomcc said:

You can extend varsho who i do not think will age well, promote our non existent close cf prospects or trade capital for a centre fielder, or sign one in a terrible FA class next year. 

There absolutely is a need. 

So your answer is play Clement in CF, a position he hasn't played since a fill in in College? There's a need to extend Varsho, period.

[jmomcc]

24 minutes ago, Spanky__99 said:

So your answer is play Clement in CF, a position he hasn't played since a fill in in College? There's a need to extend Varsho, period.

My answer is to genuinely try that, and if that doesn't work you need to use prospects to get a centre fielder. 

I would not extend Varsho. 

[Spanky__99]

6 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

My answer is to genuinely try that, and if that doesn't work you need to use prospects to get a centre fielder. 

I would not extend Varsho. 

To each their own I guess, this isn't a video game man.

[jmomcc]

23 minutes ago, Spanky__99 said:

To each their own I guess, this isn't a video game man.

Varsho was a catcher who became a centrefielder. You know that right? We just played in a world series against a team who played mookie betts at short. 

[Spanky__99]

Just now, jmomcc said:

Varsho was a catcher who became a centrefielder. You know that right? We just played in a world series against a team who played mookie betts at short. 

lol... Varsho just put up 2.2 WAR in 270 PA's, you sure you want Ernie playing CF over him, or for the ongoing days of this franchise? Again, this isn't a video game, Clement brings massive value as a super utility player. Please stop. 

[jmomcc]

1 hour ago, Spanky__99 said:

lol... Varsho just put up 2.2 WAR in 270 PA's, you sure you want Ernie playing CF over him, or for the ongoing days of this franchise? Again, this isn't a video game, Clement brings massive value as a super utility player. Please stop. 

Correct, he did. Possibly yes. Correct, not a video game. Correct, clement is valuable.

You can stop conversations with people by not replying to them. 

[Brownie19]

8 hours ago, jmomcc said:

Varsho was a catcher who became a centrefielder. You know that right? We just played in a world series against a team who played mookie betts at short. 

I was just going to say that Mookie Betts has given fans completely unrealistic expectations on players abilities to change positions mid career.  

Mookie Betts is a generational mutant.  He's literally good at everything he tries.  

I understand your thought process - and I too would love to see us start Clement in a premiere defensive position to optimize his value.  But a move to CF is drastic and highly unlikely to be successful.

Also - as much as I love Ernie Clement (and I REALLY do) - he's already entering his age 30 season and will soon start to decline.  

Just enjoy Ernie for what he is and let him play the super sub role for this team.  We already know he's really good at it - no need to f*ck with that.

[Brownie19]

13 hours ago, GoBlue41 said:

Is it ok to be sentimental as a fan? I find myself cringing every time I see someone mentioning getting rid of or benching a Barger or Clement etc. even in trades that might net us something great. Maybe it's not exactly THE best scenario for the team going forward, but I want those guys in the lineup after what we all experienced with them last year and what they gave the team. I wanna run it back, but I wanna run it back with the same group and a few key additions. Am I crazy, not a good fan, or not the only one? 

You 100% can. I'm sure we all feel that way to some extent.  To clarify - when people are suggesting Clement may not have a "starting spot" they say so knowing that the primary utility player (and the 4th OFer) on average receive 500 PA's a year anyway - they play as much as the starters and thus we aren't benching Ernie - he's a massive glue piece for this team.  

[Jimcanuck]

Yeah the use of Ernie is optimized as a super utility guy that plays all over the diamond and gets 500 to 600 PA a year.  If the Jays move on from Straw, it would be good for Ernie to get some reps in CF in ST, I'm sure he'd be quite good there and would add to the Jays position flex.

Ernie = Mookie