Rafael Devers traded to the Giants

[Brownie19]

Where are we getting our info on these "verbal" agreements made? 

https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/boston-red-sox-news/red-sox-s-rafael-devers-stirs-drama-over-reluctance-to-move-positions-i-play-third-jackson3

That article suggests the verbal agreement was that Devers would have the 3rd base job for "many years to come".  Wouldn't be hard to see a disagreement over what that meant (although I suspect "many" implies 4-5+).  Are there better sources? 

This certainly exposes the issues with verbal agreements.  You're just asking for issues when using them IMO.  Get sh*t in writing.

[Orgfiller]

26 minutes ago, BTS said:

Honestly though, mismanagement of the Devers situation aside, I don't think this will actually be remembered as a bad trade. Devers is a bad-body DH at 28, and is a very good but not elite hitter. Boston will miss the bat this season, but for 275M or whatever he's still owed I don't think they'll miss him beyond that. If any of the return pieces hit, even better. 

One thing I'll say about Devers, is that while he was admittedly a very poor 3B, he wasn't like the worst defender in the sport level bad out there. He wasn't Nick Castellanos or Kyle Schwarber, he was bad but not god awful. So to fully give up on him as a defender altogether and not even consider shifting him down the defensive spectrum to first before he's even 30 is very weird. Seems to me like telling him to put his glove away forever this soon was as silly as anything else in this whole ordeal.

Were the Red Sox really all that concerned about not having Triston Casas with his middling projections and pre arb salary playing first every day? Certainly it makes sense to have Bregman take over 3B full time, but surely there was some other resolution to this mess that involved Devers playing in the field while not hurting his team.

[BatFlip]

42 minutes ago, BTS said:

Honestly though, mismanagement of the Devers situation aside, I don't think this will actually be remembered as a bad trade. Devers is a bad-body DH at 28, and is a very good but not elite hitter. Boston will miss the bat this season, but for 275M or whatever he's still owed I don't think they'll miss him beyond that. If any of the return pieces hit, even better. 

I am not a fan of the Guerrero contract, but Devers' (age 28) best two full seasons were a 140 and 134 wRC+.   Guerrero (age 26) has a 166 and 165 wRC+.   His career wRC+ is only 4 points than Devers' due to his struggles with inconsistency but that's a massive gap in upside and Guerrero seems to finally be settling in at first as a slightly below average to average defender.

I think you're right that Devers is a very good, but not elite hitter without a defensive position.  I think he's rapidly aging out of a home at 3B and it's awfuly late in the career for him to make a transition to 1B. 

Boston should be able to afford Devers' bat as a big market team, but I don't think the trade will age as poorly for them as some seem to think.

 

 

 

[Orgfiller]

20 minutes ago, BatFlip said:

I am not a fan of the Guerrero contract, but Devers' (age 28) best two full seasons were a 140 and 134 wRC+.   Guerrero (age 26) has a 166 and 165 wRC+.   His career wRC+ is only 4 points than Devers' due to his struggles with inconsistency but that's a massive gap in upside and Guerrero seems to finally be settling in at first as a slightly below average to average defender.

I think you're right that Devers is a very good, but not elite hitter without a defensive position.  I think he's rapidly aging out of a home at 3B and it's awfuly late in the career for him to make a transition to 1B. 

Boston should be able to afford Devers' bat as a big market team, but I don't think the trade will age as poorly for them as some seem to think.

Is it late? He's only 28 and while his athletic peak may be passed, he's not hopeless from playing a position, let alone learning the significantly simpler 1B (incoming "it's not that hard Scott, tell him Wash" video). We're talking about him like he's some 35 year old immobile slug. Miguel Cabrera went back to 3B in his ages 30-31 seasons before shifting back over to 1B pretty seamlessly. Bryce Harper had major injury is a full time 1B as of his age 31 season. Devers might not be either of these guys offensively, but he's younger than they were when shifting positions and he's had plenty of infield experience to transfer over to learning first.

[Terminator]

Red Sox management's egos got the best of them.

Players will bitch and whine sometimes but if he's mashing and getting along with his teammates well enough then what does it matter? He had some valid gripes in that he signed an 11 year deal and they started moving his positions around 2 years in.

Can't help but think that Breslow and John Henry got their feelings hurt.

[Grant77]

1 hour ago, Brownie19 said:

Where are we getting our info on these "verbal" agreements made? 

https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/boston-red-sox-news/red-sox-s-rafael-devers-stirs-drama-over-reluctance-to-move-positions-i-play-third-jackson3

That article suggests the verbal agreement was that Devers would have the 3rd base job for "many years to come".  Wouldn't be hard to see a disagreement over what that meant (although I suspect "many" implies 4-5+).  Are there better sources? 

This certainly exposes the issues with verbal agreements.  You're just asking for issues when using them IMO.  Get sh*t in writing.

I really don't think you can put that kind of thing in a contract. 

There hasn't been any reporting that such an agreement didn't exist. Boston made the promise and then they lied, plain and simple. Bloom was gone, but nobody in their right mind thinks he made that promise and kept it hidden from ownership or the team President. This really has nothing to do with Breslow.

For their troubles, they lost a franchise cornerstone for pennies on the dollar and their reputation with free agents. As I said earlier, I'd be willing to bet that most of Boston's players took Devers' side, even if they don't express it outwardly.

[BB17]

51 minutes ago, Grant77 said:

I really don't think you can put that kind of thing in a contract. 

There hasn't been any reporting that such an agreement didn't exist. Boston made the promise and then they lied, plain and simple. Bloom was gone, but nobody in their right mind thinks he made that promise and kept it hidden from ownership or the team President. This really has nothing to do with Breslow.

For their troubles, they lost a franchise cornerstone for pennies on the dollar and their reputation with free agents. As I said earlier, I'd be willing to bet that most of Boston's players took Devers' side, even if they don't express it outwardly.

The players may have taken his side about the FO lying but I bet they were pissed he didn't do what's best for the team. Good locker rooms have a no one player is above the team mantra so if I was in the clubhouse and saw a player who didn't want to do whatever he could do help the team while I'm busing my balls griding every day, I'd be pissed.

[Brownie19]

Has Boston come out and admitted or disputed this verbal agreement was made?  Or are we just going off what Devers says (through an interpreter)?  Does anyone know this?

It will be interesting to see if this affects the Red Sox moving forward.  My guess is it doesn't.  I don't disagree that some teammates may think the org did Devers dirty, but I doubt anyone on that team wishes they didn't sign Bregman, nor do they want Devers playing 3rd and Bregman playing some other position (1st or DH I guess? I doubt teammates want Bregman blocking Kristian Campbell at 2nd).

 

[BatFlip]

2 hours ago, Orgfiller said:

Is it late? He's only 28 and while his athletic peak may be passed, he's not hopeless from playing a position, let alone learning the significantly simpler 1B (incoming "it's not that hard Scott, tell him Wash" video). We're talking about him like he's some 35 year old immobile slug. Miguel Cabrera went back to 3B in his ages 30-31 seasons before shifting back over to 1B pretty seamlessly. Bryce Harper had major injury is a full time 1B as of his age 31 season. Devers might not be either of these guys offensively, but he's younger than they were when shifting positions and he's had plenty of infield experience to transfer over to learning first.

 

Miguel Cabrera was moved to 1B at the tender age of 25, and played it horribly for about four years before being shuttled back to 3B.   It's also been a painful few years of transition for Vladdy (defensively) and he's just now playing the position reasonably.  

I get your point that Cabrera at least played only below average defense after being moved back to his original position of 3B at age 30.  I think he also supports my point about how bad Devers could be at first. 

Maybe we're not really disagreeing too much.  I'm not saying Devers would be 'hopeless' at 1B, just that he'd probably be really bad.  I think he'd be better off sticking at 3B if you want him in the field.

 

 

[Grant77]

58 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Has Boston come out and admitted or disputed this verbal agreement was made?  Or are we just going off what Devers says (through an interpreter)?  Does anyone know this?

It will be interesting to see if this affects the Red Sox moving forward.  My guess is it doesn't.  I don't disagree that some teammates may think the org did Devers dirty, but I doubt anyone on that team wishes they didn't sign Bregman, nor do they want Devers playing 3rd and Bregman playing some other position (1st or DH I guess? I doubt teammates want Bregman blocking Kristian Campbell at 2nd).

 

Kristian Campbell is in the discussion for the worst fielder in MLB. He looks unathletic and has hands of stone. He already looks like a corner outfielder or DH longterm.

They surely had some inkling of how bad he was, but still made the decision to tell Devers to 'put his glove away'. That quote is definitely confirmed. Players back each other when a teammate gets screwed over and lied to, even if it's not the best for the team. I only know it from hockey/work, but I think the team dynamic would be the same.

[Omar]

I almost feel sorry for Red Sox fans but then I think, nah they deserve this. 

 

 

 

[hanton]

there must be alot of hate there to trade an elite bat like that for nothing

[Brownie19]

58 minutes ago, Grant77 said:

Kristian Campbell is in the discussion for the worst fielder in MLB. He looks unathletic and has hands of stone. He already looks like a corner outfielder or DH longterm.

They surely had some inkling of how bad he was, but still made the decision to tell Devers to 'put his glove away'. That quote is definitely confirmed. Players back each other when a teammate gets screwed over and lied to, even if it's not the best for the team. I only know it from hockey/work, but I think the team dynamic would be the same.

OK you're right Grant.  Boston is super racist and the worst organization in baseball.  I think that's what you want to hear. 

[Grant77]

16 hours ago, G-Snarls said:

Vladdy didn't seem to complain when they moved him to first base even though he probably didn't like it 

He has actually just tried hard to become a better first baseman 

These guys are making a ton of money and Bregman is a way better defenderr at 3rd than either of them .

I think both sides look bad here. 

Vladdy was a minor leaguer. Devers was an established veteran.

We're talking apples and oranges here.

Devers got out of a horrible situation and joined a first class one, so I don't think he cares how he looks at this point.

[Grant77]

Just now, Brownie19 said:

OK you're right Grant.  Boston is super racist and the worst organization in baseball.  I think that's what you want to hear. 

While that is unquestionably true, I expect that you just didn't have a counterargument to the points that I made. Watch any game and you'll see how awful Campbell looks.

[Jonn]

Basically a salary dump is crazy.

[Brownie19]

19 minutes ago, Grant77 said:

While that is unquestionably true, I expect that you just didn't have a counterargument to the points that I made. Watch any game and you'll see how awful Campbell looks.

Grant - You're always right and are relentless in your efforts to prove such.  I was wrong to even start this discussion.  My bad.

[Stangstag]

6 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Grant - You're always right and are relentless in your efforts to prove such.  I was wrong to even start this discussion.  My bad.

Am i in the twilight zone

[hanton]

League should veto the deal "in the best interest of the game" lol

[Jays24]

8 hours ago, Orgfiller said:

Unless they sent Santander back I don't really envision how Devers would fit on this team. Barger and Ernie have been crushing it at 3B and are cheap, Vlad is here forever, we have a DH/RF signed for 4 more years while Springer continues to decline defensively...where was Devers supposed to play? Who was he being moved for, surely a salary dump from our end would have been involved.

Sorry but theres always space for a player who immediately becomes the teams best hitter.  You let him split time at 3B/DH.  

While I have really enjoyed Barger's play recently, there is 0 certainty that his recent play will continue for the longterm.  Same goes for Ernie who can be used all over the diamond too.  

[Jonn]

Apparently there is rumours going around that the Red Sox wanted Berrios as the main return for Devers. And talks broke down when the Jays asked the Red Sox to eat some of the contract.

[Grant77]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2025&month=0&season1=2025&ind=0&sortcol=12&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1

Take a look at the second player on this list and it becomes clear that their decisions regarding Devers were not about improving team defense. 

[Grant77]

Former ESPN Boston reporter Joon Lee reports on X that there's a power struggle in Boston between Breslow and Cora, which has resulted in the firing of many long-time employees. He reports that the organization is 'unraveling from the inside'.

He also infers that Breslow's treatment of Devers is a product of that power struggle. Kristian Campbell and Roman Anthony are also involved in the drama.

[Masterbather]

1 hour ago, Jonn said:

Apparently there is rumours going around that the Red Sox wanted Berrios as the main return for Devers. And talks broke down when the Jays asked the Red Sox to eat some of the contract.

What's that smell?  Ah, the pungent smell of manure.

 

[hanton]

Did Atkins sit down with Barger before negotiating with Boston on acquiring Devers? lol

[jaysblue]

7 hours ago, Grant77 said:

Former ESPN Boston reporter Joon Lee reports on X that there's a power struggle in Boston between Breslow and Cora, which has resulted in the firing of many long-time employees. He reports that the organization is 'unraveling from the inside'.

He also infers that Breslow's treatment of Devers is a product of that power struggle. Kristian Campbell and Roman Anthony are also involved in the drama.

[Laika]

Devers + Sale + Betts

for

Jordan Hicks, Kyle Harrison, James Tibbs, Jose Bello, Jeter Downs, Alex Verdugo, Connor Wong, Vaughn Grissom

 

say what you want about Devers, and say what you want about $/WAR and payroll considerations, but this trade history looks like what the worst owner in your dynasty league might do on a snap rebuild one year before quitting the league without notice 

[Terminator]

Big market teams should not be salary dumping to this level.

[Terminator]

MLB is such a joke.

You never know what the ball is going to do year to year.

 

[L54]

On 6/16/2025 at 10:26 AM, Grant77 said:

The notion that the Team Owners and Team President can change one person's job and rid themselves of any obligations or promises to employees is absolutely ludicrous in my opinion. You are the one that is out to lunch. It doesn't work that way in the real world.

At my current job, for example, I had a non-contractual understanding with my supervisor regarding lieu time (different than the government standard). He was fired and my new supervisor disagrees with that decision, but continues to 'grandfather' it for a couple of employees. That's pretty standard practice 

It is far from standard practice. Your new manager is under no obligation to uphold a wink wink nudge nudge agreement between you and your previous management. 
 

What would you do if he decided not to? Go the the labour board?