General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2025)

[Big_Walleye]

6 minutes ago, max silver said:

I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people in the entire Blue Jays online sphere that believes Vlad has been the best player on the Blue Jays this season. I don't think he's even been the team's second best player as I would give those honors to Kirk at this juncture. 

I would put Bo above Vlad at this point as well.  His defense aside, he's a great hitter, what he can do at the plate makes up for a lot of his defensive shortcomings.  And he's been clutch too.  That being said, crunch time starts tonight.  It's time for the 1st baseman to put this team on his back.

[max silver]

11 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

I unequivocally believe Vlad is the most valuable member of the Jays - when all on-field and off-field things are considered, but... yeah as far as on-field only, Springer has kinda separated himself from the pack, especially over the past month. 

The top 4 are Kirk, Springer, Vlad and Bo... Kirk and Springer already above 4 fWAR and have an outside chance at 5, Vlad and Bo could both end up above 4.  

This shows how fearsome a lineup of hitters the Blue Jays possess this season. Add in the breakouts of Barger and Varsho along with a very solid supporting cast and this places the offense in a very good place for the final month of the season. 

[max silver]

10 minutes ago, Big_Walleye said:

I would put Bo above Vlad at this point as well.  His defense aside, he's a great hitter, what he can do at the plate makes up for a lot of his defensive shortcomings.  And he's been clutch too.  That being said, crunch time starts tonight.  It's time for the 1st baseman to put this team on his back.

Vlad had a few big games to end the series against the Reds so hopefully he's getting his timing back in time for the Yankees series. The hamstring issue unfortunately took him out of his rhythm as Vlad had been positively killing it post all star break.

[Big_Walleye]

1 hour ago, max silver said:

Vlad had a few big games to end the series against the Reds so hopefully he's getting his timing back in time for the Yankees series. The hamstring issue unfortunately took him out of his rhythm as Vlad had been positively killing it post all star break.

I agree.  The signs are there that he's locking it back in.  It looks like Barger may be coming around as well.  If those two do some damage this weekend and George, Bo, Kirk and Varsho stay hot the Yankers could be in for a rough time.

[R.O.]

Bo at SS this season: -13 DRS

 

Ummmm I don't think Bo is a SS anymore, or.... is he the reincarnation of Jeter?

 

 

 

 

[John_Havok]

Updated Jays fWAR ranking after last nights game

Kirk 4.2

Vlad 4.1

Springer 4

Bichette 3.7

 

Also fun... Varsho, Heineman and Straw combined have 622 PA, which is 2 less PA than Bo on the season... combined fWAR of 6

[Rimar]

On 9/5/2025 at 10:41 AM, Big_Walleye said:

I would put Bo above Vlad at this point as well.  His defense aside, he's a great hitter, what he can do at the plate makes up for a lot of his defensive shortcomings.  And he's been clutch too.  That being said, crunch time starts tonight.  It's time for the 1st baseman to put this team on his back.

The best player this year it's Springer,  but yes Bichette also great.  

[Rimar]

On 9/4/2025 at 9:16 AM, Laika said:

Preseason wish list:

• Bo needs a big bounce back season - CHECK✔️
• Springer needs to be useful -  CHECK✔️  AND THEN SOME
• Kirk needs a bounce back season  - CHECK✔️
• Vlad needs to be good  - CHECK✔️
• Someone needs to emerge and be the 3B  - CHECK✔️ Ernieeee
• One of the young players needs to breakout and be a regular  - CHECK✔️ Barggger
• The SP need to stay healthy  - CHECK✔️
• Someone needs to emerge as a viable SP5  - CHECK✔️ Laueeeeer
• The pen needs to be completely fixed   - CHECK✔️ well, until August 
• The team needs to find frontline pitching - Bieber? We will see in October.

Barger and Clement are very good utilities players, but no enough to play everyday.  Both bring good defense, Barger more useful when used in RF, and Clement at 3B , but Ernie have almost no power for a 3B, so he will be better playing SS or 2B, and move to 3B in last innings.  Still need a star 3B and someone as good than  Bichette , to replace him if he sign elsewhere. 

[Laika]

Astros are apparently moving Framber up to start tomorrow 

That means Toronto dodges Brown and Framber and instead will face Luis Garcia, Jason Alexander, and Javier. Unless they move Brown up for that last game on normal rest. 

[jaysblue]

Framber seems like an *******. Pardon my French. 

[Ryu In My House]

Biebs, Bo, or Both?

Does anyone have an opinion on Bieber? I really think the Jays aught to offer him something like Burnes' contract - Corbin Burnes signed 6 years, $210M. Maybe model the structure after Vladdy's signing bonus contract, before MLB closes that loophole.

I guess it sort of depends on sustained Lauer success, or Manoah's return. Or maybe not. Truly a team needs 7 decent starters to make a season of it, it seems.

I am hoping Bo signs a 10-year deal for $27.M AAV - but I don't know if he would take that. He may want $30M AAV  at this point. Unsure.

With those signings, Bo, Bieber or both would have to defer a bit for 2026 and 2027 to avoid the 32% luxury tax threshold. I think the FO is okay with a 20% luxury tax threshold. 

Whom should the Jays target out of these two, if it's an either/or situation? My head says Bieber, but heart says Bo. Ugh. Tough decisions.



 

[Ryu In My House]

23 hours ago, John_Havok said:

Updated Jays fWAR ranking after last nights game

Kirk 4.2

Vlad 4.1

Springer 4

Bichette 3.7

 

Also fun... Varsho, Heineman and Straw combined have 622 PA, which is 2 less PA than Bo on the season... combined fWAR of 6

I am still shocked at Springer's turnaround. I actually thought DFAing him over the winter was a tenable option. It's like found money.

[Ryu In My House]

On 9/5/2025 at 11:31 AM, R.O. said:

Bo at SS this season: -13 DRS

 

Ummmm I don't think Bo is a SS anymore, or.... is he the reincarnation of Jeter?

 

 

 

 

I feel like this is a question that's been discussed often, and I realize this is hypothetical...

If Bo extends, does the Jays middle infield get better with Gimenez at SS and Bo at 2B?

MLB AI thinks so...

 

• Projected Jays Middle Infield (Giménez SS + Bo 2B)

  • Defense: Much stronger, above league average.

  • WAR: Could add +2 to +3 WAR over a season compared to current setup, largely due to Giménez’s glove and Bo’s positional realignment.

[BB17]

1 hour ago, Ryu In My House said:

Biebs, Bo, or Both?

Does anyone have an opinion on Bieber? I really think the Jays aught to offer him something like Burnes' contract - Corbin Burnes signed 6 years, $210M. Maybe model the structure after Vladdy's signing bonus contract, before MLB closes that loophole.

I guess it sort of depends on sustained Lauer success, or Manoah's return. Or maybe not. Truly a team needs 7 decent starters to make a season of it, it seems.

I am hoping Bo signs a 10-year deal for $27.M AAV - but I don't know if he would take that. He may want $30M AAV  at this point. Unsure.

With those signings, Bo, Bieber or both would have to defer a bit for 2026 and 2027 to avoid the 32% luxury tax threshold. I think the FO is okay with a 20% luxury tax threshold. 

Whom should the Jays target out of these two, if it's an either/or situation? My head says Bieber, but heart says Bo. Ugh. Tough decisions.



 

I doubt Bieber signs here unless you really overpay him. He's a California guy with a wife and young baby and lives in Arizona during the offseason. I think he will go to a team with a AZ Spring facility. 

Bo has been great but I'm passing on that contract. The decline in defence/speed+ lack of a position and the way his body has looked the last 2 years gives me a ton of hesitancy on what he will be in 4-5 years let alone 7-10 from now.

[Laika]

Bassitt is my playoff #3 over Scherzer.

Sorry, Max. 

[hanton]

7 minutes ago, Laika said:

Bassitt is my playoff #3 over Scherzer.

Sorry, Max. 

He's definitely fallen little - might also depend on the matchup.  Over is Berrios lol? 

[G-Snarls]

On 9/6/2025 at 5:14 PM, Rimar said:

The best player this year it's Springer,  but yes Bichette also great.  

Anything thing is the fact that Springer has outperformed expectations by so much 

Vladdy has not. 

Both have been good 

Springer's season feels extra special because of how unedited it was

[jmomcc]

I think you have to sign Bo because what's the alternative? Gimenez at short and clement at second? 

We haven't signed a star on the amateur side since 2016. There is no one anywhere close to the show to replace Bo. 

Sign him, and worry about what it will look like in 5 years when it comes. 

On the pitching side, i dunno. 

I think there is a decent chance this team is pretty bad next year. Like, the rotation needs a lot to go right (kind of like this year) to be just passable. But, also its our best chance of one last good year before being really bad the year after. So, if they have the capacity to spend, just spend and figure it out later.

Edit: we have a good chunk of money coming off after 2026 and Atkins is out of contract then. That would be a fantastic time to make a change. There is still a whole sheet of pretty crappy contracts (gimenez will be making way too much money.. plus berrios) but its could be a cleanish slate for a new front office. 

Give him one more year. If there is still no homegrown pitching and signs of more upside in the farm, cut bait and move on. 
 

Also, kind of ironic how much s*** AA got for going all in and all that. He never put so much big long term kind of iffy money on the books as atkins does. Those berrios and gimenez contracts could look terrible. Just a constant inability to get cheap production. Kirk is the only really 'good' contract he signed in an extension. 

[max silver]

9 hours ago, jmomcc said:

I think you have to sign Bo because what's the alternative? Gimenez at short and clement at second? 

We haven't signed a star on the amateur side since 2016. There is no one anywhere close to the show to replace Bo. 

Sign him, and worry about what it will look like in 5 years when it comes. 

On the pitching side, i dunno. 

I think there is a decent chance this team is pretty bad next year. Like, the rotation needs a lot to go right (kind of like this year) to be just passable. But, also its our best chance of one last good year before being really bad the year after. So, if they have the capacity to spend, just spend and figure it out later.

Edit: we have a good chunk of money coming off after 2026 and Atkins is out of contract then. That would be a fantastic time to make a change. There is still a whole sheet of pretty crappy contracts (gimenez will be making way too much money.. plus berrios) but its could be a cleanish slate for a new front office. 

Give him one more year. If there is still no homegrown pitching and signs of more upside in the farm, cut bait and move on. 
 

Also, kind of ironic how much s*** AA got for going all in and all that. He never put so much big long term kind of iffy money on the books as atkins does. Those berrios and gimenez contracts could look terrible. Just a constant inability to get cheap production. Kirk is the only really 'good' contract he signed in an extension. 

I don't think that's really worth fretting over too much before the front office has had a chance to make their offseason moves. You could have made the same point about this year's team and here they are in first place in September. There is a lot of money coming off the books after this season is up, but I can fully agree there is a lot of work to be done in the rotation in order to have a solid group for next season. It appears as though the team has a really good shot to finally start using their own home grown pitching at the big league level, but this will require finally getting some of these guys across the finish line. 

[jmomcc]

51 minutes ago, max silver said:

I don't think that's really worth fretting over too much before the front office has had a chance to make their offseason moves. You could have made the same point about this year's team and here they are in first place in September. There is a lot of money coming off the books after this season is up, but I can fully agree there is a lot of work to be done in the rotation in order to have a solid group for next season. It appears as though the team has a really good shot to finally start using their own home grown pitching at the big league level, but this will require finally getting some of these guys across the finish line. 

This year's team is in first place after getting a peak level offensive season from a 35 year old, and extraordinary health in our old rotation. 

Most seasons when you have only 5 passable starters don't end like this. 

But yea, giving Atkins another year to see if some pitching comes through is reasonable. Just do not give an extension this offseason. 

[max silver]

4 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

This year's team is in first place after getting a peak level offensive season from a 35 year old, and extraordinary health in our old rotation. 

Most seasons when you have only 5 passable starters don't end like this. 

But yea, giving Atkins another year to see if some pitching comes through is reasonable. Just do not give an extension this offseason. 

I think Atkins has easily done enough to let him play out the rest of his contract. He has his team in first place in September largely on the strength of internal improvements that the team has been chasing after since the massive offensive underperformance th 2023 season. The offense is arguably the best in the sport this season with the pitching taking a step backwards. If the team can find a way to improve the pitching as they did with the offense this can be a really scary team next season. 

[Terminator]

The Atkins haters are never going to give up

We can see how the rest of this season shakes out, but barring any sort of epic collapse both he and Shapiro should be extended this offseason

[jmomcc]

39 minutes ago, max silver said:

I think Atkins has easily done enough to let him play out the rest of his contract. He has his team in first place in September largely on the strength of internal improvements that the team has been chasing after since the massive offensive underperformance th 2023 season. The offense is arguably the best in the sport this season with the pitching taking a step backwards. If the team can find a way to improve the pitching as they did with the offense this can be a really scary team next season. 

If they can bring through pitching, i'll believe. But it has to actually happen. Ten years in is too late for tales from the farm to entice me. 

[jmomcc]

18 minutes ago, Terminator said:

The Atkins haters are never going to give up

We can see how the rest of this season shakes out, but barring any sort of epic collapse both he and Shapiro should be extended this offseason

I don't hate him.
 

I think he is a mediocre to below average gm overall in a division with generally above average gms. If we were in the AL central, i'd be happy. I think its worth trying to upgrade because this isn't a soft division and he's at best the 4th best gm in division. 
 

I absolutely think tampa and baltimores gms with our payroll would be more successful. And the yankees are obviously a better front office. 

 

[glory]

11 hours ago, jmomcc said:

I think you have to sign Bo because what's the alternative? Gimenez at short and clement at second? 

We haven't signed a star on the amateur side since 2016. There is no one anywhere close to the show to replace Bo. 

Sign him, and worry about what it will look like in 5 years when it comes. 

On the pitching side, i dunno. 

I think there is a decent chance this team is pretty bad next year. Like, the rotation needs a lot to go right (kind of like this year) to be just passable. But, also its our best chance of one last good year before being really bad the year after. So, if they have the capacity to spend, just spend and figure it out later.

Edit: we have a good chunk of money coming off after 2026 and Atkins is out of contract then. That would be a fantastic time to make a change. There is still a whole sheet of pretty crappy contracts (gimenez will be making way too much money.. plus berrios) but its could be a cleanish slate for a new front office. 

Give him one more year. If there is still no homegrown pitching and signs of more upside in the farm, cut bait and move on. 
 

Also, kind of ironic how much s*** AA got for going all in and all that. He never put so much big long term kind of iffy money on the books as atkins does. Those berrios and gimenez contracts could look terrible. Just a constant inability to get cheap production. Kirk is the only really 'good' contract he signed in an extension. 

My fear is that next season's SS/2B (wherever Gimenez doesn't play) tandem is going to be Clement and a re-signed IKF, which is nightmare fuel. However, I don't think that justifies overpaying for a flawed, and likely bad long-term investment in Bichette. My hunch is that Bo is not going to get the market/interest that he expects, and he comes back to the Jays on a lesser deal where maybe he can opt out after a year. The Jays just voluntarily played IKF in 2 of the 3 games at Yankee Stadium. They obviously value defense over offense even if the defense is attached to one of the worst hitters in the sport. I don't think Bo gets the 8/200 or whatever type of deal from this front office unless Rogers steps in like they presumably did with Vlad. 

As far as 2026, I think there is a path to contention, but I could easily see it going the opposite way as well. Really depends on what the FO does, and way too early to speculate on that. 

[Omar]

Don't kid yourself folks. If Bo is healthy he will garner interest for his bat alone because it is in elite territory.  I suspect if he gets a long term contract it may begin with the number 3!

[max silver]

8 hours ago, jmomcc said:

I don't hate him.
 

I think he is a mediocre to below average gm overall in a division with generally above average gms. If we were in the AL central, i'd be happy. I think its worth trying to upgrade because this isn't a soft division and he's at best the 4th best gm in division. 
 

I absolutely think tampa and baltimores gms with our payroll would be more successful. And the yankees are obviously a better front office. 

 

So a below average GM is on track to make the playoffs in 4 of the last 6 seasons while playing one of MLB's hardest schedules in a murderous division. That's just a perfectly fair and balanced evaluation from you. The obviously better Yankees front office has typically ran payrolls of $100lion more every season. Imagine what Atkins could accomplish with the types of payroll allotments that Cashman has enjoyed. 

[glory]

18 minutes ago, Omar said:

Don't kid yourself folks. If Bo is healthy he will garner interest for his bat alone because it is in elite territory.  I suspect if he gets a long term contract it may begin with the number 3!

How many big spending teams need shortstops? How many big spending teams are willing to spend big on a 2B (assuming that's where teams envision his long-term position)? I'm not saying it won't happen, the Dodgers need a SS for example, but I could easily see a scenario where he overvalues himself and doesn't see the offers he wants, especially with the looming lockout possibly impacting league spending. Of course, all it takes is one team. 

[jmomcc]

4 minutes ago, max silver said:

So a below average GM is on track to make the playoffs in 3 of the last 5 seasons while playing one of MLB's hardest schedules in a murderous division. That's just a perfectly fair and balanced evaluation from you. The obviously better Yankees front office has typically ran payrolls of $100lion more every season. Imagine what Atkins could accomplish with the types of payroll allotments that Cashman has enjoyed. 

Of course the yankees are better. They develop pitching consistently. It's a base requirement. We don't satisfy that so we are worse. They also average a good bit more wins than we do a season. 

I also honestly value front offices with higher upside. Like, that can put together teams that have 100 win upside. We are a team and front office set up to get into wild cards generally and win the division maybe if its unusually weak that year. I'd rather have higher upside and backslide into wild cards than have that as seemingly the goal most years. 

Also, one of those three was 2020 when essentially the entire league got in. 

[jmomcc]

32 minutes ago, glory said:

My fear is that next season's SS/2B (wherever Gimenez doesn't play) tandem is going to be Clement and a re-signed IKF, which is nightmare fuel. However, I don't think that justifies overpaying for a flawed, and likely bad long-term investment in Bichette. My hunch is that Bo is not going to get the market/interest that he expects, and he comes back to the Jays on a lesser deal where maybe he can opt out after a year. The Jays just voluntarily played IKF in 2 of the 3 games at Yankee Stadium. They obviously value defense over offense even if the defense is attached to one of the worst hitters in the sport. I don't think Bo gets the 8/200 or whatever type of deal from this front office unless Rogers steps in like they presumably did with Vlad. 

As far as 2026, I think there is a path to contention, but I could easily see it going the opposite way as well. Really depends on what the FO does, and way too early to speculate on that. 

I think Bo will get like 25 AAV at least over decent term ... maybe 7/8 years. That's probably way too low.