General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2025)

[BB17]

16 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

The beauty thing about Barger is he's shown the ability to hit LHP throughout the minors and so far this season at the ML level.  We shouldn't need to platoon him.  What an incredible development for the Jays.  

And who doesn't LOVE cheering for Barger?  If he sustains this production, he'll quickly become a massive fan favourite.

Bargers jerseys are going to soon be...

Perhaps as hot as his statcast page?  

Yeah he should be the every day 3B. Maybe the odd day off a tough LHP. If he can just be league average vs LHP then he will be just fine.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Kind of hard not to get a bit excited for the Jays summer potential.

Scherzer looks like he's ready to replace an ineffective Francis, Bauer and Turnbull don't look entirely useless as potential #5's and at some point Manoah will be in the mix too. Not to mention the Jays have plenty of prospect capital to go shopping via trade.

The bullpen looks amazing and they still have Yimi and Sandlin left to add. And again, lots of prospect capital to potentially add.

The schedule theoretically lightens up here for a bit, and they've done quite well against one of the tougher stretches of games.

The bats...we still haven't seen Tony Taters get going yet, Varsho has missed most of the year so far and only makes the roster better with his addition at some point and second half Vlad seems to be waking up.

 

And the D is just pure studliness personified. 

 

It's the most optimistic I've been going into a summer for a few years now.

[glory]

2 hours ago, BB17 said:

Yeah he should be the every day 3B. Maybe the odd day off a tough LHP. If he can just be league average vs LHP then he will be just fine.

Going to be interesting to see what Schneider does when Varsho and Santander get back. Right now having Barger in RF and Clement at 3B makes some sense given the options available and Clement's hot streak, but once everyone is back, then the logical lineup construction would be Barger at 3B and Lukes in LF vs RHP. I get the sense that Schneider would run into a brick wall head first before he puts Clement on the bench, so not sure how he's going to work around that. Finally developing an internal 3B option who can hit and defend, but putting him in the OF to accommodate a utility IF (granted one who is doing very well) is a bit disappointing. Barger should really be getting as many reps at 3B as possible. We will see what is done when Santander comes back. 

But yeah, Barger's development has been huge for this season. The Jays needed a couple of internal breakouts to have a real shot at contention, and Barger and to a lesser extent Lukes so far have been massive, in addition to the bullpen development (Little, Fluharty, Fisher, Yariel, etc). It's funny the front office is usually very good at FA/trades to compensate for their lack of development, but it's been the opposite this season. Long-term sustainability is a lot more realistic when it comes with internal development rather than external short-term vets, so 2025 has gone really well so far on a lot of fronts. 

[G-Snarls]

13 hours ago, Vancouverite said:

Anyone got an update on possible return for Varsho and Santander?

 

Im hoping they come back and tattoo the ball

Lineup could be very good if even 3/4 of them keep this up

1. Bichette

2. Barger

3. Vlad

4. Santander

5. Varsho or Kirk

6. Springer 

7. Kirk or Varsho

8. Giminez

9. Clement

[G-Snarls]

I say keep Vladdy 3rd no matter what 

He just likes hitting there for whatever reason and it's fine 

[Laika]

31 minutes ago, glory said:

Going to be interesting to see what Schneider does when Varsho and Santander get back. Right now having Barger in RF and Clement at 3B makes some sense given the options available and Clement's hot streak, but once everyone is back, then the logical lineup construction would be Barger at 3B and Lukes in LF vs RHP. I get the sense that Schneider would run into a brick wall head first before he puts Clement on the bench, so not sure how he's going to work around that. Finally developing an internal 3B option who can hit and defend, but putting him in the OF to accommodate a utility IF (granted one who is doing very well) is a bit disappointing. Barger should really be getting as many reps at 3B as possible. We will see what is done when Santander comes back. 

But yeah, Barger's development has been huge for this season. The Jays needed a couple of internal breakouts to have a real shot at contention, and Barger and to a lesser extent Lukes so far have been massive, in addition to the bullpen development (Little, Fluharty, Fisher, Yariel, etc). It's funny the front office is usually very good at FA/trades to compensate for their lack of development, but it's been the opposite this season. Long-term sustainability is a lot more realistic when it comes with internal development rather than external short-term vets, so 2025 has gone really well so far on a lot of fronts. 

If Gimenez doesn't start hitting, he might lose some 2B playing time to Clement. 

They simply can't justify benching Barger or Clement, they are too good and have been too good.

I don't think it makes sense to put Barger's 3B development over the importance of fielding an optimal lineup, though. 

LF - George
CF - Varsho
RF - Barger
3B - Clement
SS - Bo
2B - Gimenez
1B - Vlad
C - Kirk
DH - Santander

George gets regular games off and a bench OF plays.
Santander gets some regular rest days and a bench OF plays (George DH)
Gimenez gets some days off if he isn't hitting, and Clement slides in there with Barger covering 3B. 

[BB17]

41 minutes ago, glory said:

Going to be interesting to see what Schneider does when Varsho and Santander get back. Right now having Barger in RF and Clement at 3B makes some sense given the options available and Clement's hot streak, but once everyone is back, then the logical lineup construction would be Barger at 3B and Lukes in LF vs RHP. I get the sense that Schneider would run into a brick wall head first before he puts Clement on the bench, so not sure how he's going to work around that. Finally developing an internal 3B option who can hit and defend, but putting him in the OF to accommodate a utility IF (granted one who is doing very well) is a bit disappointing. Barger should really be getting as many reps at 3B as possible. We will see what is done when Santander comes back. 

But yeah, Barger's development has been huge for this season. The Jays needed a couple of internal breakouts to have a real shot at contention, and Barger and to a lesser extent Lukes so far have been massive, in addition to the bullpen development (Little, Fluharty, Fisher, Yariel, etc). It's funny the front office is usually very good at FA/trades to compensate for their lack of development, but it's been the opposite this season. Long-term sustainability is a lot more realistic when it comes with internal development rather than external short-term vets, so 2025 has gone really well so far on a lot of fronts. 

I agree 100%. As good as Clement has been he's still been terrible vs RHP. He has a 58wRC+ and thats with a normal BABIP, so he really shouldn't be starting vs RHP unless its the odd day to give a regular a break.

The good news is he's mashed LHP which actually is a good thing when it comes to lineup construction. I'd have Lukes in LF/RF vs RHP with Santander or Springer Dhing and then vs LHP I would probably just platoon Clement at 2B instead of Giminez. You could put Barger in RF vs LHP but like you said I think you just stick him at 3rd all the time and let him develop there. Yo-yoing him around probably isn't good for his development defensively and he hasn't looked good in RF either. He's probably like Jose was there where he's roughly average overall only because the arm is plus plus.

[BB17]

7 minutes ago, Laika said:

If Gimenez doesn't start hitting, he might lose some 2B playing time to Clement. 

They simply can't justify benching Barger or Clement, they are too good and have been too good.

I don't think it makes sense to put Barger's 3B development over the importance of fielding an optimal lineup, though. 

LF - George
CF - Varsho
RF - Barger
3B - Clement
SS - Bo
2B - Gimenez
1B - Vlad
C - Kirk
DH - Santander

George gets regular games off and a bench OF plays.
Santander gets some regular rest days and a bench OF plays (George DH)
Gimenez gets some days off if he isn't hitting, and Clement slides in there with Barger covering 3B. 

Clement's slash line vs RHP

.248/.274/.287

And this is with him being on a heater.. He shouldn't start vs RHP with a fully healthy lineup.

[Laika]

You have to be careful with unregressed, small sample platoon splits. 

His career split probably isn't so extreme.

In any event the projections will tell you to play Gimenez over Clement against every RHP, forever, so on the team level they kind of need to make some non-computational decisions based on soft information to decide what to do if they want to go against the projections. 

But yeah if Gimenez loses playing time it will be against lefties. 

[Brownie19]

29 minutes ago, BB17 said:

Clement's slash line vs RHP

.248/.274/.287

And this is with him being on a heater.. He shouldn't start vs RHP with a fully healthy lineup.

And last year in 307 PA's v. RHP, he had a 104 wRC+ (only 73 wRC+ v. LHP)

[AMS528]

I think Ernie will sit against righties here and there but he's going to mostly play, even with the splits, I think it's only reasonable he gets a lot of playing time because of the overall level of his play has earned it. His splits were also nothing like this last year, so no need to rely on them that closely. I think giving Gimenez fairly regular rest days should help out a bit. 

Having four guys playing at legitimately All-Star levels is awesome though. Kirk, Clement, Vlad, and Barger have all been at that level (if Bichette ups those hitting numbers a bit more he's borderline there as well). Nice to have depth. 

If only we had a real ace, I'd feel like this team would be set for a very deep run. I think unfortunately we've seen the last of Gausman as a real front end starter (although he's still solid). Gausman and Bassitt have both been solid, but aren't exactly who you want to hand the ball to first in the playoffs. I think if we got 70 innings out of Scherzer we'd count that as a big win now. Same with any positive innings out of Manoah. 

Saw this article on potentially tradeable players for the deadline. 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6431296/2025/06/18/mlb-trade-deadline-big-board-players-postseason/

There's a few interesting names there (Kelly, Alcantara, Peralta). 

[max silver]

1 hour ago, BB17 said:

Clement's slash line vs RHP

.248/.274/.287

And this is with him being on a heater.. He shouldn't start vs RHP with a fully healthy lineup.

Ernie got off to a horrendous start to the season against right handed pitching, and this has been trending upwards as the season has progressed. 

 

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Season	Month	Tm	PA	BB%	K%	BB/K	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	ISO	BABIP	wRC	wRAA	wOBA	wRC+
2025	Mar/Apr	TOR	48	0.0%	16.7%	0.0	.167	.167	.167	.333	.000	.200	-1	-6.3	.148	-14
2025	May	TOR	80	5.0%	13.8%	0.4	.278	.321	.319	.640	.042	.323	7	-1.7	.287	84
2025	Jun	TOR	38	2.6%	5.3%	0.5	.297	.316	.378	.694	.081	.314	4	-0.3	.305	96

[max silver]

36 minutes ago, AMS528 said:

I think Ernie will sit against righties here and there but he's going to mostly play, even with the splits, I think it's only reasonable he gets a lot of playing time because of the overall level of his play has earned it. His splits were also nothing like this last year, so no need to rely on them that closely. I think giving Gimenez fairly regular rest days should help out a bit. 

Having four guys playing at legitimately All-Star levels is awesome though. Kirk, Clement, Vlad, and Barger have all been at that level (if Bichette ups those hitting numbers a bit more he's borderline there as well). Nice to have depth. 

If only we had a real ace, I'd feel like this team would be set for a very deep run. I think unfortunately we've seen the last of Gausman as a real front end starter (although he's still solid). Gausman and Bassitt have both been solid, but aren't exactly who you want to hand the ball to first in the playoffs. I think if we got 70 innings out of Scherzer we'd count that as a big win now. Same with any positive innings out of Manoah. 

Saw this article on potentially tradeable players for the deadline. 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6431296/2025/06/18/mlb-trade-deadline-big-board-players-postseason/

There's a few interesting names there (Kelly, Alcantara, Peralta). 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a 2021 style addition in the vein of Jose Berrios occurs. He was never really an ace and was more of a number 2 starter at his best, but a similar addition would cover for the eventual loss of Bassitt to free agency.

[jaysblue]

5 hours ago, Eat My Shatkins said:

Kind of hard not to get a bit excited for the Jays summer potential.

Scherzer looks like he's ready to replace an ineffective Francis, Bauer and Turnbull don't look entirely useless as potential #5's and at some point Manoah will be in the mix too. Not to mention the Jays have plenty of prospect capital to go shopping via trade.

The bullpen looks amazing and they still have Yimi and Sandlin left to add. And again, lots of prospect capital to potentially add.

The schedule theoretically lightens up here for a bit, and they've done quite well against one of the tougher stretches of games.

The bats...we still haven't seen Tony Taters get going yet, Varsho has missed most of the year so far and only makes the roster better with his addition at some point and second half Vlad seems to be waking up.

 

And the D is just pure studliness personified. 

 

It's the most optimistic I've been going into a summer for a few years now.

Will be interesting to see what kind of moves Atkins makes at the trade deadline. 

Definitely should be an exciting summer and September as well! 

[BB17]

5 hours ago, max silver said:

Ernie got off to a horrendous start to the season against right handed pitching, and this has been trending upwards as the season has progressed. 

 

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Season	Month	Tm	PA	BB%	K%	BB/K	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	ISO	BABIP	wRC	wRAA	wOBA	wRC+
2025	Mar/Apr	TOR	48	0.0%	16.7%	0.0	.167	.167	.167	.333	.000	.200	-1	-6.3	.148	-14
2025	May	TOR	80	5.0%	13.8%	0.4	.278	.321	.319	.640	.042	.323	7	-1.7	.287	84
2025	Jun	TOR	38	2.6%	5.3%	0.5	.297	.316	.378	.694	.081	.314	4	-0.3	.305	96

I love Ernie as much as the next guy but I’m just saying he shouldn’t be handed every day ABS vs RHP automatically. I rather they play Barger every day at 3rd and let him develop there defensively as he was doing pretty well there. 

Barger has the upside to be an all star at 3rd for the next 5 years and while it’s great Ernie is performing well he’s still more of a good utility player than a starter on a contending team. Like I’ve mentioned in the past we’ve seen a lot of similar type middle infielders go out and have a 3 win season but their talent level usually cones back down to earth and they are more of a 0-1 win player.

[BB17]

6 hours ago, AMS528 said:

I think Ernie will sit against righties here and there but he's going to mostly play, even with the splits, I think it's only reasonable he gets a lot of playing time because of the overall level of his play has earned it. His splits were also nothing like this last year, so no need to rely on them that closely. I think giving Gimenez fairly regular rest days should help out a bit. 

Having four guys playing at legitimately All-Star levels is awesome though. Kirk, Clement, Vlad, and Barger have all been at that level (if Bichette ups those hitting numbers a bit more he's borderline there as well). Nice to have depth. 

If only we had a real ace, I'd feel like this team would be set for a very deep run. I think unfortunately we've seen the last of Gausman as a real front end starter (although he's still solid). Gausman and Bassitt have both been solid, but aren't exactly who you want to hand the ball to first in the playoffs. I think if we got 70 innings out of Scherzer we'd count that as a big win now. Same with any positive innings out of Manoah. 

Saw this article on potentially tradeable players for the deadline. 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6431296/2025/06/18/mlb-trade-deadline-big-board-players-postseason/

There's a few interesting names there (Kelly, Alcantara, Peralta). 

Yeah the rotation still seems pretty thin and agree that there really isn’t a SP you’d be comfortable giving the ball to in a playoff game.

As sad as it is Scherzer might be the first guy you’d turn to. I still hesitate to think he will pitch 50 innings let alone 70. All they did was let him rest a few weeks after a cortisone injection, so I doubt the injury just magically healed if he’s been dealing with it for 2 years. Maybe some sort of role where he only throws 50-70 pitches an outing on a set schedule is going to have to be the outcome.
 

 

[jaysblue]

10 hours ago, BB17 said:

Yeah the rotation still seems pretty thin and agree that there really isn’t a SP you’d be comfortable giving the ball to in a playoff game.

As sad as it is Scherzer might be the first guy you’d turn to. I still hesitate to think he will pitch 50 innings let alone 70. All they did was let him rest a few weeks after a cortisone injection, so I doubt the injury just magically healed if he’s been dealing with it for 2 years. Maybe some sort of role where he only throws 50-70 pitches an outing on a set schedule is going to have to be the outcome.
 

 

Just need Scherzer healthy for the Postseason. 

Don't ride him that hard during the regular season. See how he looks in his 10-12 starts (if he makes it that far) and if he looks like his old elite self, he's a guy you ride hard in the Postseason lol. 

[mphenhef]

19 hours ago, glory said:

Going to be interesting to see what Schneider does when Varsho and Santander get back. Right now having Barger in RF and Clement at 3B makes some sense given the options available and Clement's hot streak, but once everyone is back, then the logical lineup construction would be Barger at 3B and Lukes in LF vs RHP. I get the sense that Schneider would run into a brick wall head first before he puts Clement on the bench, so not sure how he's going to work around that. Finally developing an internal 3B option who can hit and defend, but putting him in the OF to accommodate a utility IF (granted one who is doing very well) is a bit disappointing. Barger should really be getting as many reps at 3B as possible. We will see what is done when Santander comes back. 

But yeah, Barger's development has been huge for this season. The Jays needed a couple of internal breakouts to have a real shot at contention, and Barger and to a lesser extent Lukes so far have been massive, in addition to the bullpen development (Little, Fluharty, Fisher, Yariel, etc). It's funny the front office is usually very good at FA/trades to compensate for their lack of development, but it's been the opposite this season. Long-term sustainability is a lot more realistic when it comes with internal development rather than external short-term vets, so 2025 has gone really well so far on a lot of fronts. 

Perhaps the correct move would be Barger at 3B, Clement at 2B and Gimenez to the bench?  It would never happen mind you but you could make an argument for it.  

 

That brings up a potential idea the front office could have.  Would they ship Bo out for a pitcher and move Clement or Gimenez over to short?

[Spanky__99]

18 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

And last year in 307 PA's v. RHP, he had a 104 wRC+ (only 73 wRC+ v. LHP)

And since May 1st he has an 81 wRC+, which is playable with his elite D and decent BSR, I don't see a problem when guys come back at all. They'll spread it out, and will have plenty of AB's to go around.

[Spanky__99]

18 hours ago, Laika said:

You have to be careful with unregressed, small sample platoon splits. 

His career split probably isn't so extreme.

In any event the projections will tell you to play Gimenez over Clement against every RHP, forever, so on the team level they kind of need to make some non-computational decisions based on soft information to decide what to do if they want to go against the projections. 

But yeah if Gimenez loses playing time it will be against lefties. 

He's already lost it against lefties, Ernie plays. 

[Spanky__99]

17 hours ago, max silver said:

Ernie got off to a horrendous start to the season against right handed pitching, and this has been trending upwards as the season has progressed. 

 

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ing	Month	Tm	PA	BB%	K%	BB/K	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS	ISO	BABIP	wRC	wRAA	wOBA	wRC+
2025	Mar/Apr	TOR	48	0.0%	16.7%	0.0	.167	.167	.167	.333	.000	.200	-1	-6.3	.148	-14
2025	May	TOR	80	5.0%	13.8%	0.4	.278	.321	.319	.640	.042	.323	7	-1.7	.287	84
2025	Jun	TOR	38	2.6%	5.3%	0.5	.297	.316	.378	.694	.081	.314	4	-0.3	.305	96

I should've kept reading, my bad, lol... but this is my point. 

[John_Havok]

1 hour ago, mphenhef said:

Perhaps the correct move would be Barger at 3B, Clement at 2B and Gimenez to the bench?  It would never happen mind you but you could make an argument for it.  

 

That brings up a potential idea the front office could have.  Would they ship Bo out for a pitcher and move Clement or Gimenez over to short?

I very much doubt Bo is going anywhere if the Jays are in the thick of the WC and withing striking distance of the division lead. They'd have to lose for like 3 or 4 weeks straight for that to happen

[Spanky__99]

41 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

I very much doubt Bo is going anywhere if the Jays are in the thick of the WC and withing striking distance of the division lead. They'd have to lose for like 3 or 4 weeks straight for that to happen

The only way Bo goes would be for a big upgrade in the rotation or OF with control I'd think.

[mphenhef]

1 hour ago, John_Havok said:

I very much doubt Bo is going anywhere if the Jays are in the thick of the WC and withing striking distance of the division lead. They'd have to lose for like 3 or 4 weeks straight for that to happen

I could see it happening if they got a good starter with more control...not likely but I could see it.

[BB17]

Yeah I don't think you'd want to trade Bo's bat. This might be the Jays best shot to win the division in the next 5 years so I don't think they can afford to subtract off the current roster.  His batted ball metrics suggest he's been quite unlucky so if he keeps playing the way he has he will do just fine. 

If you trade Bo and Ernie/Giminez.Barger go into a slump then you'll be kicking yourself saying you don't have enough offence. It would have to be a 3 team trade anyways as I don't think a team out there is going to trade a SP off the roster for a rental.

[glory]

 

[hanton]

4 minutes ago, glory said:

 

yep discussed before, lowest attack angle in the league and bo isn't far behind.  This is not easily fixed,  Hopefully Popkins can do something with him

[hanton]

...40+ homers easily if they can increase his attack angle

[max silver]

6 hours ago, Spanky__99 said:

The only way Bo goes would be for a big upgrade in the rotation or OF with control I'd think.

I don't think Bo would have enough value on his own to bring back a controllable player that's an upgrade over what the team already possesses. 

[R.O.]

https://x.com/ShiDavidi/status/1936160705499045970