General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Laika]

Addison Barger already has batted balls at:

 

108.5 mph, 106.2, 105.3, 103.2, and 102.4

 

That is in just 17 batted ball events. 29% are 100mph+

 

Compare to some Jays who hit with pop.

Danny Jansen has 117 BBE this year and has a maxEV of 106.7.

21 of 117 BBE are 100+ mph (17.9%)

 

Davis Schneider has 114 BBE, 31 at 100mph or more (21.5%)

MaxEV of 109.3

 

This is not exactly scientific and Barger could just have a couple of lucky swings in there, but I kind of think that we are going to start seeing some beastly exit velos from him.

It is quite possible that he emerges as a 114 maxEV guy, or something like that, which would put him in his own tier on the team just below Vlad.

 

This is supported by how he swings, his measurable bat speed, and physical characteristics.

 

Think Matt Chapman pop.

[Nexii]

Pitching needs to do better in the second half. There aren't any teams better than .500 that have given up as many runs as the Jays.

 

Aside from Yimi, the bullpen hasn't even been replacement level. Why does Pete Walker get off so easy vs the hitting coaches?

[Laika]

Pitching needs to do better in the second half. There aren't any teams better than .500 that have given up as many runs as the Jays.

 

Aside from Yimi, the bullpen hasn't even been replacement level. Why does Pete Walker get off so easy vs the hitting coaches?

 

Overall body of work?

 

Is there a specific RP that you think is being mis-coached right now? Not sure I can think of one at all.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Pitching needs to do better in the second half. There aren't any teams better than .500 that have given up as many runs as the Jays.

 

Aside from Yimi, the bullpen hasn't even been replacement level. Why does Pete Walker get off so easy vs the hitting coaches?

 

lol

 

dude

[Eat My Shatkins]

The starting pitching has been just fine.

 

The bullpen has been absolutely DECIMATED with injuries.

 

Every single high leverage guy who exceled last season has spent time on the IL, some of them more than once already, except for Mayza who probably should spend time on the IL as his velo is way down.

[L54]

Wouldn't it be glorious for this team to climb back into a WC spot and then go on a 2023 Diamondbacks run in the playoffs? Honest question to the Debbie Downers - would that completely change your opinion of this FO if this team finishes with 84 wins and goes on a deep playoff run?

 

(if someone could post their answers for me, that would be appreciated)

 

Haven’t you been beating the season season is over drum for a month now? Lol

[Terminator]

The starting pitching has been just fine.

 

The bullpen has been absolutely DECIMATED with injuries.

 

Every single high leverage guy who exceled last season has spent time on the IL, some of them more than once already, except for Mayza who probably should spend time on the IL as his velo is way down.

 

The bullpen looks UGLY right now.

 

Late inning guys:

Green

Pearson

 

Setup:

Richards

Little

Pop

 

Garbage:

Genesis

Mayza

 

Long Reliever:

Francis

[glory]

You missed the part where John Schneider fills out the lineup card to actually field the players that have the highest likelihood to compete for a W. If he doesn't let some misplaced loyalty to his vetrins (I'm looking at you Springer) guide his decision making, there's a chance for success. Can Atkins get out of his way?

 

I think this is the biggest issue. Even if you truly believe in the Buffalo boys to lead the team on a 2nd half run, how likely is it that they even get a chance to play over KK, Springer, and Turner? Atkins and JS genuflect in front of any vetrin with 6+ years of service time. It's not going to be easy to see a lineup of young guys with the vets on their last legs riding pine. I actually don't think it's necessary to cut bait on Turner and KK, just use them more to their strengths. Turner can still hit LHP. Platoon him. KK can still play defense and run, so make him a pinch runner and defensive replacement who occasionally starts depending on the matchup. Springer is a lot harder to figure out as he doesn't specialize in anything. Either way, the org would have to accept the vets on lesser roles, and I don't think they do that. Maybe desperation can change behavior, though.

[glory]

I don't know if he would need to trade Bo but for Atkins to get off most everyone's shitlist we would need to see:

 

-Buffalo boys produce, thus showing that he can develop some homegrown talent

-Other good farm news, like maybe Tidemann makes a few good starts down the stretch or Orelvis has a big debut or something

-Have a good trade deadline

-Core players like Vlad, Bo, etc. have big second halves

-Make it past the Wild Card round, possibly would need to make the ALCS

 

Tall task, but not impossible

 

If they don't trade Bo, but somehow go on a magical run with something like this:

 

CA Jansen

1B Vlad

2B Horowitz

SS Bichette

3B Martinez

RF Barger

CF Varsho

LF DS

DH Turner/Springer

 

...then yeah, Atkins would look way better. That's a lineup with 7 homegrown guys, plus Varsho who they traded Moreno for.

 

Seems like a very unrealistic expectation, but would be a fun ride if it happened.

[Brownie19]

Haven’t you been beating the season is over drum for a month now? Lol

 

Yes, I have been. I still lean that way, but I may have underestimated how bad Houston and Texas would be.

 

I think it would be fascinating for this Jays team to somehow win the WC3 position and then go on to win 2 or 3 playoff series. A lot of fans seem to believe that playoff wins are very important when evaluating the success of the team and FO. If the Jays had gone to the WS or the ALCS in 2020, 2021 or 2022 (or even won 3-4 rounds combined over those seasons), I think most would have a drastically different view on this FO. It would be quite ironic to have them go deep into the playoffs this year, when most agree it's time for a new GM and/or a rebuild/re-tool.

 

Then take it one step further and imagine we do it on the back of our pitching and defense and the MLB networks start talking about how the Jays built their team around the old adage that "pitching and defense wins baseball games - especially in the playoffs" and they start telling the TV audience how smart that was and how building a team around the longball doesn't fly in the playoffs and other teams take note and start following suit (as we do see copycat trends regularly). That would be f***ING HILARIOUS. I highly doubt this would happen, but man, it would be entertaining to watch that unfold.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Brownie19

[Brownie19]

I think this is the biggest issue. Even if you truly believe in the Buffalo boys to lead the team on a 2nd half run, how likely is it that they even get a chance to play over KK, Springer, and Turner? Atkins and JS genuflect in front of any vetrin with 6+ years of service time. It's not going to be easy to see a lineup of young guys with the vets on their last legs riding pine. I actually don't think it's necessary to cut bait on Turner and KK, just use them more to their strengths. Turner can still hit LHP. Platoon him. KK can still play defense and run, so make him a pinch runner and defensive replacement who occasionally starts depending on the matchup. Springer is a lot harder to figure out as he doesn't specialize in anything. Either way, the org would have to accept the vets on lesser roles, and I don't think they do that. Maybe desperation can change behavior, though.

 

I posted this last week, but there are LOTS of regulars who are struggling mightily (even on good teams with good managers/FO's). I don't think this is uncommon at all around baseball. I suspect the Jays will move off Turner as a starter 1st, which I think has already started to happen and will continue. I think they'll give Springer more rope. That said, I agree that this team needs to act with more urgency than someone like the Phillies needs to with Castellanos, the Yankees need to with Rizzo or the Dodgers need to with Lux.

 

It's interesting that the reigning World Series Champions are starting guys who have sucked balls like Turner and Springer this year. Texas keeps running Leody Taveras (72 wRC+), Jonah Heim (75 wRC+), Ezequiel Duran (77 wRC+), Langford (75 wRC+) and Carter (78 wRC+) out there (plus Garcia at 89 wRC+). I understand those players are different than the old vets the Jays keep running out there, but Texas should be playing with the same sense of urgency as the Jays right now. Is Bruce Bochy now a moron like John Schneider? He was GOD last November.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Brownie19

[The_DH]

I believe we need Horwitz's bat given the state of our offense, but can he really play at 2b?

[Terminator]

I believe we need Horwitz's bat given the state of our offense, but can he really play at 2b?

 

I have my doubts but he seems to be doing okay so far.

[Jays24]

I believe we need Horwitz's bat given the state of our offense, but can he really play at 2b?

 

Hes been good so far but I would question his agility/speed to be good there long term. You need to be able to show range and I my doubts there.

[Laika]

Horwitz has no errors so far and a +1 OAA!!!!!

[The_DH]

I'm hoping Barger picks up a few at bats and performs as 3b-rf.

[L54]

Yes, I have been. I still lean that way, but I may have underestimated how bad Houston and Texas would be.

 

I think it would be fascinating for this Jays team to somehow win the WC3 position and then go on to win 2 or 3 playoff series. A lot of fans seem to believe that playoff wins are very important when evaluating the success of the team and FO. If the Jays had gone to the WS or the ALCS in 2020, 2021 or 2022 (or even won 3-4 rounds combined over those seasons), I think most would have a drastically different view on this FO. It would be quite ironic to have them go deep into the playoffs this year, when most agree it's time for a new GM and/or a rebuild/re-tool.

 

Then take it one step further and imagine we do it on the back of our pitching and defense and the MLB networks start talking about how the Jays built their team around the old adage that "pitching and defense wins baseball games - especially in the playoffs" and they start telling the TV audience how smart that was and how building a team around the longball doesn't fly in the playoffs and other teams take note and start following suit (as we do see copycat trends regularly). That would be f***ING HILARIOUS. I highly doubt this would happen, but man, it would be entertaining to watch that unfold.

 

That is quite a scenario. Anything is possible I guess!

 

I think most of the opposition to Atkins’ job is that this team does not look or feel like a team that could have a legit chance if they got in. They maybe even feel like the AZ Diamondbacks who many say were not a good team

[Brownie19]

That is quite a scenario. Anything is possible I guess!

 

I think most of the opposition to Atkins’ job is that this team does not look or feel like a team that could have a legit chance if they got in. They maybe even feel like the AZ Diamondbacks who many say were not a good team

 

Springer can play the role of 2023 Evan Longoria!

[The_DH]

Well, Votto is back playing in Florida so things could happen.

[Terminator]

Well, Votto is back playing in Florida so things could happen.

 

Oh hell yes

[Laika]

Initiate Votto to Horwitz talent and skills upload sequence

[glory]

Tonight's lineup against a RHP has Springer, Turner, and KK in it. No Horowitz and no Barger.

 

Forget the Buffalo boys, just sign Abreu and call Votto up. Team Washed gonna lead us to the playoffs.

[Barrelsandbombs]

Brandon Eisert might be getting called up

 

[Laika]

Tonight's lineup against a RHP has Springer, Turner, and KK in it. No Horowitz and no Barger.

 

Forget the Buffalo boys, just sign Abreu and call Votto up. Team Washed gonna lead us to the playoffs.

 

Houck (tomorrow) murders RHB

Bello (two days) is better against RHB

 

Pivetta has reverse splits this year and is pretty neutral for his career so I guess this might be the best game of the three to actually play Springer or Turner???

 

Hopefully they f***ing sit the next two games jesus christ Toronto Blue Jays you spineless f***ing limp dick no nuts organization omfg

[Stangstag]

Tonight's lineup against a RHP has Springer, Turner, and KK in it. No Horowitz and no Barger.

 

Forget the Buffalo boys, just sign Abreu and call Votto up. Team Washed gonna lead us to the playoffs.

 

Jesus christ man im so sick of this f***ing coaching staff and front office

[Terminator]

Brandon Eisert might be getting called up

 

 

I haven't paid any attention to Eisert before but he looks mildly interesting. 35 Ks in 22 innings as a lefty in AAA this year. His ERA stinks but that's because of his .442 BABIP.

 

Not sure how he is racking up those Ks; it isn't because of his velo which is sits about 90-91 from the game logs I went and looked at.

 

He'll probably get added to the 40-man since we have 2 spots after the Vogelbach and Biggio DFAs but could go back down as soon as Yariel's turn in the rotation comes up.

[G-Snarls]

Mayza getting punted???

[Terminator]

Mayza getting punted???

 

So we have the 40-man spots after Vogelbach and Biggio were punted. The 25-man spots were quickly filled with Buffalo Boys.

 

The 25-man spot for Eisert, I would assume, is opening up because Yimi is headed to the DL.

[G-Snarls]

So we have the 40-man spots after Vogelbach and Biggio were punted. The 25-man spots were quickly filled with Buffalo Boys.

 

The 25-man spot for Eisert, I would assume, is opening up because Yimi is headed to the DL.

 

Is Garcia IL announced yet or no?

[Terminator]

Is Garcia IL announced yet or no?

 

Not yet but it seems inevitable after leaving yesterday's game with elbow soreness.

 

So let's say Garcia to DL, Eisert up.

 

Then on Friday when Yariel's turn in the rotation comes up, they will need to option a reliever. We will have 4 lefties in the pen at that point. Little, Eisert, Genesis and Mayza. Genesis and Mayza have too much service time so they can't be optioned without their consent.

 

If Eisert sucks, they could option him. If he looks good, they should DFA Genesis or Mayza. Mayza has been good in the past but he's over 32 now and is going to make 5+ mil in his final arb year next year.

 

I'm not sure if Ross will have the courage to do the right thing though.