General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Spanky99]

I really hope JS runs with this exact line-up for the next few games (vs rodriquez, burnes and suarez) kk, biggio and clement can stay on the bench

 

on another note....vlady and bo aren't on the block

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/06/jays-gm-ross-atkins-trading-guerrero-bichette-doesnt-make-any-sense-for-us.html

 

would Atkins even admit it if they were?

 

No.

[Stangstag]

Shatkins was in this exact same position around this time in 2017, an old team at the end of its competitive window coming off 3+ million in attendance the previous season. We saw what they did. They've either learned their lesson or they'll prove to be believers in the definition of insanity. I think we all know which direction they will choose.

 

The fact they did nothing this offseason to bolster the offense doesn’t leave me with much confidence in Atkins.

 

Best thing for this team long-term would be to miss the playoffs. Hopefully Shapiro fires Atkins and brings in a new GM to rebuild. Vlad and/or Bo could still fetch a decent return in the offseason

[Stangstag]

To start their best player, one of future players of mlb has been horrific. They also lost their #2 SP that was a big part of that success. Usually it’s the core 5 or 6 dudes that make you dangerous. They’re minus 2

 

Yeah not like something similar happened to the Jays in 2023…

[Stangstag]

I’d like to have Soto and Judge as a 1-2 punch for the playoffs

 

Great analysis

[Spanky99]

I'm just thankful that we don't get daily Moreno and Gurriel updates anymore

 

lol

[Masterbather]

I hear ya. I certainly wouldn't bet on them right now either.

 

But I wouldn't have bet on Gabriel Moreno, a 160 pound slap hitter, launching bombs off of Corbin Burnes, Clayton Kershaw, Lance Lynn (ok that one I can see) and Jordan Montgomery either. But he did. And the Jays had a better offense then the D-Bags last year by far.

 

Listen we can agree to disagree all day but the bottom line is this: You want to bet that this f***ing limp noodle team that has been a limp noodle for going on 2 years, will not only will somehow fight off more talented teams for what will likely only be one available playoff spot, but will go on some miraculous run and beat teams that are clearly more talented than them to win a World Series.

 

Meanwhile the opportunity to get some much needed young assets gets pissed away because we're hoping to take lumps of coal and fart out diamonds.

 

You have to play the odds, the mistake too many organizations make is they hold on too long for a window that's passed them by. If we don't start making moves this season we're holding on too long.

 

None of this might matter, we might well be taken right out of the picture in the coming weeks, but if we somehow stick around, you will get your wish and this team's front office will s*** away our future in favour of continued mediocrity.

[L54]

Listen we can agree to disagree all day but the bottom line is this: You want to bet that this f***ing limp noodle team that has been a limp noodle for going on 2 years, will not only will somehow fight off more talented teams for what will likely only be one available playoff spot, but will go on some miraculous run and beat teams that are clearly more talented than them to win a World Series.

 

Meanwhile the opportunity to get some much needed young assets gets pissed away because we're hoping to take lumps of coal and fart out diamonds.

 

You have to play the odds, the mistake too many organizations make is they hold on too long for a window that's passed them by. If we don't start making moves this season we're holding on too long.

 

None of this might matter, we might well be taken right out of the picture in the coming weeks, but if we somehow stick around, you will get your wish and this team's front office will s*** away our future in favour of continued mediocrity.

 

Exactly this. The argument that it’s too early to count the Jays out of the playoff race and that there is a path to securing WC3 isn’t really a good one nor particularly exciting. A one track mindset solely focused on 2024 is a recipe for disaster

 

Part of the argument is well the Diamondbacks did it last year so we can too! Even though they were a bad team, are currently a bad team and weren’t worthy participants in the WS, maybe it’s our turn

 

There is no glory in limping into the third WC spot with a roster of platoon bats and guys who can play multiple positions with an 85 wRC+

 

The future outlook for this team is not good. They need to find a way to infuse the entire organization with talent and that starts with selling at the deadline, unless of course the goal is to just remain mediocre

[connorp]

Yeah not like something similar happened to the Jays in 2023…

 

You can’t go back two years, only one. Vlad not too much different between 22 and 23

[Laika]

Listen to all these defeatist losers

 

"why even try"

 

"just start the rebuild"

 

This is why you're all divorced and depressed

 

God forbid a sports team try to win!

[Olerud363]

Listen to all these defeatist losers

 

"why even try"

 

"just start the rebuild"

 

This is why you're all divorced and depressed

 

God forbid a sports team try to win!

 

Negative Nancies and the Positive Petes are both right in a way.

 

Positive Petes are right because this team is better than it has looked has far and could easily win 86 games, sneak into WC3 then anything can happen. They have talent that is good sometimes, and no reason this talent couldn't be good for 3 weeks in October.

 

Negative Nancies are right because even if this team plays better and finds themselves with 84 wins last Thursday of the season, and in a weird 5 way WC3 race, all that means is they have a 20% chance of making the playoffs (although it will seem like way more because being tied for WC3 seems awesome).

[Tim Cooke]

Looks like Connor Norby is joining the Orioles up here today

[Eat My Shatkins]

The fact they did nothing this offseason to bolster the offense doesn’t leave me with much confidence in Atkins.

 

Best thing for this team long-term would be to miss the playoffs. Hopefully Shapiro fires Atkins and brings in a new GM to rebuild. Vlad and/or Bo could still fetch a decent return in the offseason

 

Yeah I can't believe the bastards couldn't conjure up a bunch of amazing hitters out of thin air. They should be tarred and feathered.

[Krylian]

Yeah I can't believe the bastards couldn't conjure up a bunch of amazing hitters out of thin air. They should be tarred and feathered.

 

I'm sorry... Is it not their job to figure it out? Or is it just too hard. I'm sorry that building a winning team is so hard for Ross. Lots of other teams have been able to figure it out.

[Laika]

Negative Nancies and the Positive Petes are both right in a way.

 

Positive Petes are right because this team is better than it has looked has far and could easily win 86 games, sneak into WC3 then anything can happen. They have talent that is good sometimes, and no reason this talent couldn't be good for 3 weeks in October.

 

Negative Nancies are right because even if this team plays better and finds themselves with 84 wins last Thursday of the season, and in a weird 5 way WC3 race, all that means is they have a 20% chance of making the playoffs (although it will seem like way more because being tied for WC3 seems awesome).

 

The team has their 20% chance of doing something this year + it is theoretically set up to compete for a playoff spot next year. Yes, after 2026 things look grim but would selling now really accelerate the timeline much?

 

If we are being realistic, Vlad has little value giving his arb salaries and production since 2022.

Bo is a tough sell because the SS defense is fringe and the plate approach is questionable. The total package is solid but there may not be a buyer given his profile.

Turner, no value.

Springer, can't be moved realistically.

Bassitt no value, realistically.

Kirk, value is gone.

Biggio, value is gone.

Gausman and Berrios - probably have some value but it's tough to tell how much because they are sitting on free agent contracts. Need a specific kind of buyer.

Romano, value gone.

Yimi some value but how much is someone really paying for a pop-up 8th inning guy, 33 years old, with a good but not great track record?

Kikuchi some value but you have his checkered track record and historic command issues.

Jansen some value but you have his injury history.

 

Nobody, Atkins or otherwise, is moving the next window up much by taking what is out there for Kikuchi, Jansen, and Yimi Garcia and then maybe moving Gausman's contract and getting some mediocre prospect for Vlad.

 

I dunno dudes. Just not sure it's worth punting 2024 and 2025 to move some of these guys.

 

I guess they can just set some high asks and see what happens. It may be a seller's market again. Last year the D-Bags made a couple of dogshit trades:

 

July 31: D-backs acquire RHP Paul Sewald from Mariners for INF Josh Rojas, OF/1B Dominic Canzone and INF Ryan Bliss

Aug. 1: D-backs acquire Tommy Pham for INF Jeremy Rodriguez

 

^ these f***ing SUCK. Josh Rojas already has 1.5 WAR this year and Jeremy Rodriguez looks like a stud.

 

The Rangers also made some bad ones, particularly the Cole Ragans disaster.

[L54]

Listen to all these defeatist losers

 

"why even try"

 

"just start the rebuild"

 

This is why you're all divorced and depressed

 

God forbid a sports team try to win!

 

You flip flop more than a fish out of water

[L54]

Negative Nancies and the Positive Petes are both right in a way.

 

Positive Petes are right because this team is better than it has looked has far and could easily win 86 games, sneak into WC3 then anything can happen. They have talent that is good sometimes, and no reason this talent couldn't be good for 3 weeks in October.

 

Negative Nancies are right because even if this team plays better and finds themselves with 84 wins last Thursday of the season, and in a weird 5 way WC3 race, all that means is they have a 20% chance of making the playoffs (although it will seem like way more because being tied for WC3 seems awesome).

 

Negative Nancy is right though, because the downside in not selling outweighs the upside in holding

[saskjayfan]

The team has their 20% chance of doing something this year + it is theoretically set up to compete for a playoff spot next year. Yes, after 2026 things look grim but would selling now really accelerate the timeline much?

 

If we are being realistic, Vlad has little value giving his arb salaries and production since 2022.

Bo is a tough sell because the SS defense is fringe and the plate approach is questionable. The total package is solid but there may not be a buyer given his profile.

Turner, no value.

Springer, can't be moved realistically.

Bassitt no value, realistically.

Kirk, value is gone.

Biggio, value is gone.

Gausman and Berrios - probably have some value but it's tough to tell how much because they are sitting on free agent contracts. Need a specific kind of buyer.

Romano, value gone.

Yimi some value but how much is someone really paying for a pop-up 8th inning guy, 33 years old, with a good but not great track record?

Kikuchi some value but you have his checkered track record and historic command issues.

Jansen some value but you have his injury history.

 

Nobody, Atkins or otherwise, is moving the next window up much by taking what is out there for Kikuchi, Jansen, and Yimi Garcia and then maybe moving Gausman's contract and getting some mediocre prospect for Vlad.

 

I dunno dudes. Just not sure it's worth punting 2024 and 2025 to move some of these guys.

 

I guess they can just set some high asks and see what happens. It may be a seller's market again. Last year the D-Bags made a couple of dogshit trades:

 

July 31: D-backs acquire RHP Paul Sewald from Mariners for INF Josh Rojas, OF/1B Dominic Canzone and INF Ryan Bliss

Aug. 1: D-backs acquire Tommy Pham for INF Jeremy Rodriguez

 

^ these f***ing SUCK. Josh Rojas already has 1.5 WAR this year and Jeremy Rodriguez looks like a stud.

 

The Rangers also made some bad ones, particularly the Cole Ragans disaster.

 

It's an awkward time for a rebuild with the money committed for the years it is. The wild card is trending towards 84 to 87 wins not 89 to 93 wins. We may as well go for it. Is Joey Votto alive? Springer has finally started turning the corner. Even the last couple games 3 of his outs were loud one's with no strike outs.

 

Losing Manoah sucks, but it can't be considered catastrophic. He's our 5th starter and many on here didn't think he should start for us at all this year. The big issue is Bo Bichette. We need to get him going.

[Laika]

You flip flop more than a fish out of water

 

I am not divorced but I am depressed so there you go

[L54]

I am not divorced but I am depressed so there you go

 

Move out of the city that should help

[Eat My Shatkins]

I'm sorry... Is it not their job to figure it out? Or is it just too hard. I'm sorry that building a winning team is so hard for Ross. Lots of other teams have been able to figure it out.

 

Of course it's their job to figure it out, but they painted themselves into a corner building around what appears to be a rotten core. If you think they should walk the plank for expecting more out of Vlad, Bo, Kirk then fine, but it doesn't change the fact that there was f*** all they could do to "fix the offense" last off season.

[Olerud363]

The team has their 20% chance of doing something this year + it is theoretically set up to compete for a playoff spot next year. Yes, after 2026 things look grim but would selling now really accelerate the timeline much?

 

I sold my NVIDIA stock in 2017 because f***er-f***ers (including the Coastal elite newpapers) told me Trump was going to crash the stock market with his trade policies. So dumb.

 

I bought my NVIDIA stock very early, so got enough to sit on my ass and post on BJMB for a few months, but not enough to become a multi-millionaire like most of the other board members.

 

I regret this. And hate Paul Krugman and other liberal *******s for lying to me. However my friends tell me I should have just sold half. Sell half. That's what the genius traders on BJMB probably do. In and out. Sell half. Buy back in. And they are millionaires. I don't care that much. Money can't buy happiness. Only winning arguments with millionaire morons on BJMB can.

 

The moral of the story is there are 3 options. Keep NVIDIA. Sell all NVIDIA. Sell half of NVIDIA. And with the 2024 Blue Jays there is also 3 options

 

1. Sell

2. Buy

3. Hold and call up Spencer so we have two 3 WAR .290 11 77 'no power bro' 1st basemen (which is better than one and Justin Turner).

[Laika]

I sold my NVIDIA stock in 2017 because f***er-f***ers (including the Coastal elite newpapers) told me Trump was going to crash the stock market with his trade policies. So dumb.

 

I bought my NVIDIA stock very early, so got enough to sit on my ass and post on BJMB for a few months, but not enough to become a multi-millionaire like most of the other board members.

 

I regret this. And hate Paul Krugman and other liberal *******s for lying to me. However my friends tell me I should have just sold half. Sell half. That's what the genius traders on BJMB probably to. In and out. Sell half. Buy back in. And they are millionaires. I don't care that much. Money can't buy happiness. Only winning arguments with millionaire morons on BJMB can.

 

The moral of the story is there are 3 options. Keep NVIDIA. Sell all NVIDIA. Sell half of NVIDIA. And with the 2024 Blue Jays it is the same.

 

1. Sell

2. Buy

3. Hold and call up Spencer so we have two 3 WAR .290 11 77 'no power bro' 1st basemen (which is better than one and Justin Turner).

 

They could arguably sell Jansen and Yimi and still try to sneak in.

 

It would be trying to thread the needle and it's something only the poor teams would typically ever do, but they could try.

 

Yimi has been great but it's a bullpen. Everyone else just slides up and you hope Romano figures it out.

 

Jansen is great but has value for that reason and at least with Kirk there is a defensively competent #2 to slide in there.

 

I can't see how they could try to sell Kikuchi and make it in. Too important and no replacement viable at all.

 

They could also be selling for MLB guys with more control, of course. Doesn't have to be prospects coming in. Although we've seen that movie before and it didn't really work - that idea is how or why some of the trades in 2017/2018 flopped. The "quick rebuild" theory. Brandon Drury and s***. Ken Giles, Billy McKinney, Merryweather, Anthony Kay. MLB ready MLB ready MLB ready!!!

[glory]

If Atkins was a true seller (he won’t be), then he will definitely hedge on any trades. So if he traded Bichette next month (he won’t), then it would be for Luciano and change, for example, so he’d have an MLB ready player to replace Bichette. If Shatkins’ last time selling is any indication, then replace Luciano with Trey Sweeney for a more accurate MLB ready return but you get the point.

 

I wouldn’t mind keeping Vlad and working on an extension with him, but keeping Bichette is insanity if they fall out of it. They even have a SS prospect in AAA who could be adequate.

[max silver]

Of course it's their job to figure it out, but they painted themselves into a corner building around what appears to be a rotten core. If you think they should walk the plank for expecting more out of Vlad, Bo, Kirk then fine, but it doesn't change the fact that there was f*** all they could do to "fix the offense" last off season.

 

There were definitely moves out that there that would have helped a lot. Let's say they signed Teoscar and Hoskins for instance instead of IKF, Turner and Kiermaier. That would have made a really sizable difference to the offense, but wouldn't have left much money left over for the likes of Green and Rodriguez and the pitching depth would have been even worse than it is at present. In a perfect world Rogers would have opened the purse strings a bit more than seemed to be the case as an extra 10-15 million or so extra budget would have likely made a world of difference.

[BigCecil]

I realize any GM needs to be careful about what they say publicly, but the more Atkins speaks about handling big decisions, the more it’s clear to me we need new decision makers.

[Eat My Shatkins]

There were definitely moves out that there that would have helped a lot. Let's say they signed Teoscar and Hoskins for instance instead of IKF, Turner and Kiermaier. That would have made a really sizable difference to the offense, but wouldn't have left much money left over for the likes of Green and Rodriguez and the pitching depth would have been even worse than it is at present. In a perfect world Rogers would have opened the purse strings a bit more than seemed to be the case as an extra 10-15 million or so extra budget would have likely made a world of difference.

 

That's crap. You're using hindsight to hand pick players who are having good years right now and that was no guarantee at the time. You look at Teo and Hoskins fangraphs and neither one of them are a sure thing every season. On top of that you can't guarantee they'd have the same success here as they are having on their current teams.

 

And for all you know, the Jays did talk to these players and were told no outright, or no not unless you offer way more money.

[Eat My Shatkins]

There were definitely moves out that there that would have helped a lot. Let's say they signed Teoscar and Hoskins for instance instead of IKF, Turner and Kiermaier. That would have made a really sizable difference to the offense, but wouldn't have left much money left over for the likes of Green and Rodriguez and the pitching depth would have been even worse than it is at present. In a perfect world Rogers would have opened the purse strings a bit more than seemed to be the case as an extra 10-15 million or so extra budget would have likely made a world of difference.

 

This discussion is hilarious, same thing for the 1000 time this season.

 

JAYS DID NOTHING TO FIX OFFENSE

 

There really wasn't any options that could fix this offense.

 

YEAH THERE WAS, LEMME GO TO FANGRAPHS AND HANDPICK TWO OR THREE OF THE 20 s***** OPTIONS THAT WERE AVAILABLE BUT ARE ACTUALLY HITTING WELL THIS SEASON...YEAH YEAH THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THOSE GUYS BLANK CHEQUES

 

Meanwhile the same people will argue that even landing ohtani wouldn't fix this offense right now, he'd just be one good bat in a sea of sucktitude lmao

 

The offense this year was going to live or die with the core bouncing back, and they haven't so far. It's just a s***** core and if you want to blame Atkins for not figuring that out sooner fine.

[Laika]

This discussion is hilarious, same thing for the 1000 time this season.

 

JAYS DID NOTHING TO FIX OFFENSE

 

There really wasn't any options that could fix this offense.

 

YEAH THERE WAS, LEMME GO TO FANGRAPHS AND HANDPICK TWO OR THREE OF THE 20 s***** OPTIONS THAT WERE AVAILABLE BUT ARE ACTUALLY HITTING WELL THIS SEASON...YEAH YEAH THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THOSE GUYS BLANK CHEQUES

 

Meanwhile the same people will argue that even landing ohtani wouldn't fix this offense right now, he'd just be one good bat in a sea of sucktitude lmao

 

The funny thing is, Atkins did manage to land one of the better performing, better hitting free agent bats.

 

His name is Isiah Kiner Falefa!!!!!!!!!!

[wilko]

I believe Danny Burgers is the saving grace. He will lead the Jays.

[Laika]

I believe Danny Burgers is the saving grace. He will lead the Jays.

 

He has been having solid PAs all year long, got really unlucky in his limited playing time through most of May.