Former Blue Jays Thread

[Stangstag]

IKF was not a solid signing. It turned out very well, getting a 2 WAR and above average offense from him in half a season and then trading him for an interesting prospect at the deadline, but an 80 wRC+ utility IF getting $15m guaranteed with the intention of starting him at 3B on a team that already lacked offense was simply not good. Though I will give them credit for selling at the absolute perfect time. Atkins hasn't done that often with big league talent in his tenure.

 

It was a solid signing in hindsight, the same way dismantling the 2022 offense was a bad idea in hindsight.

[max silver]

IKF was not a solid signing. It turned out very well, getting a 2 WAR and above average offense from him in half a season and then trading him for an interesting prospect at the deadline, but an 80 wRC+ utility IF getting $15m guaranteed with the intention of starting him at 3B on a team that already lacked offense was simply not good. Though I will give them credit for selling at the absolute perfect time. Atkins hasn't done that often with big league talent in his tenure.

 

I still think that Kiner Falefa was a decent pickup. IKF signed for utility player money last offseason and provided better than average starter level player type of output for the Blue Jays. He's in the midst of a 3 week slump with the Pirates that has led to his numbers taking a tumble, but he's still sitting on a career best season at this point. The IKF signing in a vacuum was perfectly acceptable, the issue I had was that he was the final position player signing made by the team when there was the obvious need for offense to be added. It seems as though there was still available funds to be utilized but the team simply chose not to utilize them as they reportedly attempted to sign Chapman before spring training.

[Terminator]

How can anyone, with the power of hindsight, argue that IKF wasn't a good signing at this point? We squeezed 2 WAR out of him, most of which was at a position which was considered a black hole, and then traded him for a prospect. It was a good signing.

[Spanky99]

Why would you love to do that? Didn't you complain about that signing for weeks on end?

 

lol

[Jonn]

They got in and out on IKF. Tidy piece of business. You could argue the signing didn’t make sense to begin with but it ultimately worked out well.

[Laika]

How can anyone, with the power of hindsight, argue that IKF wasn't a good signing at this point? We squeezed 2 WAR out of him, most of which was at a position which was considered a black hole, and then traded him for a prospect. It was a good signing.

 

They are saying it was a bad signing and Ross got lucky.

[glory]

I still think that Kiner Falefa was a decent pickup. IKF signed for utility player money last offseason and provided better than average starter level player type of output for the Blue Jays. He's in the midst of a 3 week slump with the Pirates that has led to his numbers taking a tumble, but he's still sitting on a career best season at this point. The IKF signing in a vacuum was perfectly acceptable, the issue I had was that he was the final position player signing made by the team when there was the obvious need for offense to be added. It seems as though there was still available funds to be utilized but the team simply chose not to utilize them as they reportedly attempted to sign Chapman before spring training.

 

IKF in his prior 3 seasons had wRC+ of 84, 84, and 79 respectively. No power and expected numbers stunk. Keep in mind they signed him not to be a utility IF, but to start at 3B full time. The outcome was good in hindsight, so if you want to call it a win for Atkins then that's fair, but the original signing was pretty bad. Thankfully they traded him before he could revert back to the player he's always been.

[Laika]

lol it wasn't "bad"

 

remember the context. The 3B FA/trade options were Chapman, Suarez, Candelario, or.... IKF. Nobody wanted B or C (B worked out well in hindsight!) and A made it almost impossible for Toronto to sign him. C was a pricey flop.

 

Toronto paid $7.5M AAV for a guy who was a very high probability 1.5 WAR 450 PA 3B, given what was known about his defense and contact skills. There was also some weak evidence that he might be a better hitter than he'd shown (maxEV is decent) and getting anybody out of the New York pressure cooker seems like a good idea generally.

 

It was a boring/safe signing with some interesting sprinkles and those sprinkles paid off very well. Boss Ross.

[max silver]

IKF in his prior 3 seasons had wRC+ of 84, 84, and 79 respectively. No power and expected numbers stunk. Keep in mind they signed him not to be a utility IF, but to start at 3B full time. The outcome was good in hindsight, so if you want to call it a win for Atkins then that's fair, but the original signing was pretty bad. Thankfully they traded him before he could revert back to the player he's always been.

 

He showed signs of an offensive breakout in 2022 as he maintained a .750 OPS for nearly 4 months of the season so this season's offensive success wasn't completely out of nowhere. All that was needed was a tad more consistency in order for him to approach a league average bat. I still think he was signed as a utility player as the team made an attempt to sign Chapman as spring training approached.

[Stangstag]

lol it wasn't "bad"

 

remember the context. The 3B FA/trade options were Chapman, Suarez, Candelario, or.... IKF. Nobody wanted B or C (B worked out well in hindsight!) and A made it almost impossible for Toronto to sign him. C was a pricey flop.

 

Toronto paid $7.5M AAV for a guy who was a very high probability 1.5 WAR 450 PA 3B, given what was known about his defense and contact skills. There was also some weak evidence that he might be a better hitter than he'd shown (maxEV is decent) and getting anybody out of the New York pressure cooker seems like a good idea generally.

 

It was a boring/safe signing with some interesting sprinkles and those sprinkles paid off very well. Boss Ross.

 

Honestly I wanted one of the A/B/C, wasn't happy with IKF but he turned out to be the best signing factoring cost/commitment/numbers/and the return we got back. Good move by Ross.

[Stangstag]

He showed signs of an offensive breakout in 2022 as he maintained a .750 OPS for nearly 4 months of the season so this season's offensive success wasn't completely out of nowhere. All that was needed was a tad more consistency in order for him to approach a league average bat. I still think he was signed as a utility player as the team made an attempt to sign Chapman as spring training approached.

 

He was clearly signed as a starter, or at the very least with a plan to give him 500ish PA at 3B.

[max silver]

He was clearly signed as a starter, or at the very least with a plan to give him 500ish PA at 3B.

 

The team still tried to sign Chapman as spring training approached. IKF himself mentioned he didn't know what his role was going to be after signing as this largely depended on what other players were brought aboard.

[Laika]

Yeah but I think it was...

 

"we have our main 3B but if Chapman falls in our lap I guess we can make IKF the UTIL"

 

it wasn't really...

 

"we have our plan B 3B but we are still going to shoot for Chappy"

[glory]

Yimi Garcia put on the 60 day IL with elbow issues.

[wilko]

Yimi Garcia put on the 60 day IL with elbow issues.

 

He was a time bomb. No way he could keep up that velo for an extended period of time.

[max silver]

He was a time bomb. No way he could keep up that velo for an extended period of time.

 

Yimi's average fastball velocity was only 0.5 MPH higher than the 2023 and 2021 seasons so it wasn't that high of an overall bump.

[wilko]

Yimi's average fastball velocity was only 0.5 MPH higher than the 2023 and 2021 seasons so it wasn't that high of an overall bump.

 

Tell that to his 34 year old elbow.

[John_Havok]

Yimi's average fastball velocity was only 0.5 MPH higher than the 2023 and 2021 seasons so it wasn't that high of an overall bump.

 

While true, it's also a general truth that FB goes down year over year on average. I'm not really sure how much but i would guess at least 0.3 MPH per season would be in the right area. Seeing a bump rather than a decrease would be difficult to explain, unless he found some mechanical change that unlocked more, rather than just simply trying to throw harder. Either way, mechanical change or increased effort - with pitchers that definitely increases injury risk over and above the usual pitcher injury risks.

[Pendleton]

[jaysblue]

He was a time bomb. No way he could keep up that velo for an extended period of time.

 

He'll be a great buy low this offseason.

[thatoneguy]

 

I'm sure this has been mentioned here before but man, Kikuchi is winning at life.

[jaysblue]

Would definitely be in favour of bringing back Kikuchi if the Jays can't land someone like Flaherty.

[L54]

 

I'm sure this has been mentioned here before but man, Kikuchi is winning at life.

 

That was great

[BigCecil]

Would definitely be in favour of bringing back Kikuchi if the Jays can't land someone like Flaherty.

 

Just depends on the deal. Someone is going to pay him a lot I think. He is 33 and hasn't exactly been consistent.

 

I can appreciate the criticism from Astro's fans but its kind of funny how badly that deal got panned at the deadline. Now he is shoving for them. Watched that start Thursday and his stuff looked electric.

[Terminator]

Would definitely be in favour of bringing back Kikuchi if the Jays can't land someone like Flaherty.

 

I agree but I don't think we could outbid Houston for him. You have to assume they are as high or higher on him than any team in MLB. They gave up a shitload to get him and he's been dealing. They probably match any offer we gave him.

[Terminator]

Otto Lopez is putting together a solid year. 2.2 WAR in just 380 ABs.

 

We just had to keep Craig Biggio's son around for years on end instead of giving guys like him a shot.

[metafour]

Otto Lopez is putting together a solid year. 2.2 WAR in just 380 ABs.

 

We just had to keep Craig Biggio's son around for years on end instead of giving guys like him a shot.

 

Lopez has 2.2 WAR carried almost entirely by defense. He has an 86 wRC+ this season (Biggio is at 84 while being cut by multiple teams). Biggio hit for 102 wRC+ last year and 97 wRC+ the season before that.

 

Its whatever. A no-hit defender at 2B isn't really what this team is missing.

[Terminator]

Lopez has 2.2 WAR carried almost entirely by defense. He has an 86 wRC+ this season (Biggio is at 84 while being cut by multiple teams). Biggio hit for 102 wRC+ last year and 97 wRC+ the season before that.

 

Its whatever. A no-hit defender at 2B isn't really what this team is missing.

 

Good point. I love how it took these other teams just 30 and then 4 games, respectively, to decide that Craig Biggio's son is ass before they tell him to pack his bags.

 

Meanwhile, it took the Jays 490 games to finally cut bait. Not to mention that we lost gold glove caliber infielders in the process. SMH

[Key22]

I agree but I don't think we could outbid Houston for him. You have to assume they are as high or higher on him than any team in MLB. They gave up a shitload to get him and he's been dealing. They probably match any offer we gave him.

 

They are also a winner - so we would have to overpay rather a lot I would suspect. Given our team payroll and being stuck with our new Vernon Wells albatross (Springer) we will not likely spend on 34-year-old starting pitchers.

 

If the Jays can somehow trade Chris Bassitt and his -0.1 WAR and 1.462 WHIP this off-season and unload his $ 22 million for 2025 I would be making that one of the priorities.

Edited September 25, 2024 by Key22

[max silver]

Good point. I love how it took these other teams just 30 and then 4 games, respectively, to decide that Craig Biggio's son is ass before they tell him to pack his bags.

 

Meanwhile, it took the Jays 490 games to finally cut bait. Not to mention that we lost gold glove caliber infielders in the process. SMH

 

I didn't realize he was such a solid defender at second base. No big deal losing a guy like this ultimately as the team already has too many second base options as it is moving forward. I don't think he was really in direct competition with Biggio as he would have been fighting for playing time with the likes of Espinal and Clement. I largely blame Otto's 65 wRC+ over a full season of AAA plate appearances as being the primary reason the team cut bait with him as he simply didn't earn himself an extended look in the majors.