Blue Jays acquire Daulton Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel

[John_Havok]

I don't think it was celebrated by everybody

 

Some people hated it

 

Some people were surprised at the details but saw the justification

 

i just don't think Teo is the kind of player the Jays need. Yes, he hits some HRs, but he does nothing else well. When he isn't hitting HRs, which is the vast majority of the time, he is hurting the team. He's bad on D, and worse than Vlad on the bases, which is saying something given Teo has far superior speed.

 

I would rather bring back Lourdes than Teo, and I really don't want Lourdes back either.

[Omar]

Could be the homers in him

 

Don't forget the 200+ strikeouts.

[BatFlip]

i just don't think Teo is the kind of player the Jays need. Yes, he hits some HRs, but he does nothing else well. When he isn't hitting HRs, which is the vast majority of the time, he is hurting the team. He's bad on D, and worse than Vlad on the bases, which is saying something given Teo has far superior speed.

 

I would rather bring back Lourdes than Teo, and I really don't want Lourdes back either.

 

 

He comes with warts for sure, but he was a 4 WAR player in 2021 and a 3 WAR player in 2022 based on offensive contributions.

 

You guys are right, he strikes out a lot and he demonstrates low IQ on the bases. But IF he comes on a reasonable 1 or 2 year deal, you can totally overhaul the offense by adding him and another power bat for DH / backup first or OF. I don't think it HAS to be Teo in LF, but the lineup needs some power and the FA class is pretty ugly.

[connorp]

i just don't think Teo is the kind of player the Jays need. Yes, he hits some HRs, but he does nothing else well. When he isn't hitting HRs, which is the vast majority of the time, he is hurting the team. He's bad on D, and worse than Vlad on the bases, which is saying something given Teo has far superior speed.

 

I would rather bring back Lourdes than Teo, and I really don't want Lourdes back either.

 

Newsflash. Team isn’t going to be better equipped for the playoffs next year by saving more runs. If you have another guy in mind that can realistically be a 130 wRC+ bat, name him.

[connorp]

Teo would be the Belt replacement really

[L54]

We don’t want small ball! We need homers!

 

But don’t sign Teoscar because we need run prevention! Bring back KK

 

Well, which is it?

[L54]

If the Jays aren’t going to try and bring in an elite offensive player they might as well blow this bitch up. What’s the point of trying to fill the cracks with Brian Anderson and Davis Schneider?

[BTS]

There's no blueprint to winning a world series. The Royals OF the year they won the WS collectively swung a bunch of wet pool noodles, but they could catch the ball. The Braves without Acuna were carried by a couple of shitbags (Rosario and Soler) who happened to have among their best months of the last 4 years. Toronto just needs to keep making the playoffs, and eventually things will go right.

 

If there was a fatal flaw with the team in 2023, it was two franchise cornerstones succumbing to crippling obesity and providing them with absolutely nothing.

 

They don't need a masher or a glove in LF. They just need the best player they can find.

[Stangstag]

Teo would be the Belt replacement really

 

I’d like Teo + Joc P

[Stangstag]

There's no blueprint to winning a world series. The Royals OF the year they won the WS collectively swung a bunch of wet pool noodles, but they could catch the ball. The Braves without Acuna were carried by a couple of shitbags (Rosario and Soler) who happened to have among their best months of the last 4 years. Toronto just needs to keep making the playoffs, and eventually things will go right.

 

If there was a fatal flaw with the team in 2023, it was two franchise cornerstones succumbing to crippling obesity and providing them with absolutely nothing.

 

They don't need a masher or a glove in LF. They just need the best player they can find.

 

Well said

[Terminator]

I highly doubt KK is on the radar anyway, even though I think he should be. Atkins talked about all of our FA's like they were already gone.

[Terminator]

I’d like Teo + Joc P

 

Pederson would be solid but I wouldn't want to pay anywhere near what he got last go around. He's a lefty bat that under almost no circumstances should play the field OR get an AB against lefties. That's a very limited player. But if used correctly he is good.

[connorp]

There's no blueprint to winning a world series. The Royals OF the year they won the WS collectively swung a bunch of wet pool noodles, but they could catch the ball. The Braves without Acuna were carried by a couple of shitbags (Rosario and Soler) who happened to have among their best months of the last 4 years. Toronto just needs to keep making the playoffs, and eventually things will go right.

 

If there was a fatal flaw with the team in 2023, it was two franchise cornerstones succumbing to crippling obesity and providing them with absolutely nothing.

 

They don't need a masher or a glove in LF. They just need the best player they can find.

 

You’re taking anecdotal evidence from nearly a decade ago to make a point. The Biuejays playoff performance failures have usually mirrored their regular season shortcomings. This year especially so. It was wasn’t random bad luck. It was exactly what the Masterbathers of the world knew would happen.

 

You have a collection of .750 bats that can scrap together some runs good enough during the regular season, but they’d be extra susceptible to good pitching. Need more chances of someone running into a HR

[BigCecil]

Yeah I agree. I think that's why a KK return needs to be considered.

 

And for all you "we need a bat to play LF types" don't fret. KK had a 104 wRC+ this year compared to Gurriel's 106 and Teoscar's 105.

 

Teo was a 4 WAR player in 21 and 3 seasons in a row he was a 130 bat before ‘23. He might be a good pillow contract bounce back option. He also hit LHP pretty well this year. No idea if we would do that. Some team may offer him a 2/3 year deal he prefers and commit to playing time.

[Terminator]

Teo was a 4 WAR player in 21 and 3 seasons in a row he was a 130 bat before ‘23. He might be a good pillow contract bounce back option. He also hit LHP pretty well this year. No idea if we would do that. Some team may offer him a 2/3 year deal he prefers and commit to playing time.

 

I'm totally down for Teo coming back. But everyone is writing off a KK return when there is basically one option better than him in FA and that's Teoscar lol. Like you said some other team may offer him 3 years.

[Terminator]

You’re taking anecdotal evidence from nearly a decade ago to make a point. The Biuejays playoff performance failures have usually mirrored their regular season shortcomings. This year especially so. It was wasn’t random bad luck. It was exactly what the Masterbathers of the world knew would happen.

 

You have a collection of .750 bats that can scrap together some runs good enough during the regular season, but they’d be extra susceptible to good pitching. Need more chances of someone running into a HR

 

That could explain 2022 but it doesn't apply to 2021 when we hit 200, good for 7th in the league. That wasn't far behind Houston who finished 4th with 214 and won the World Series.

[BigCecil]

Pederson would be solid but I wouldn't want to pay anywhere near what he got last go around. He's a lefty bat that under almost no circumstances should play the field OR get an AB against lefties. That's a very limited player. But if used correctly he is good.

 

He raked in 21 for ATL and has a 130 bat VS RHP career. Very limited asset as you say but has value as a DH against righties. Can’t hit lefties at all. Hard to believe now that he used to play CF for LAD. Just depends on the deal.

[connorp]

That could explain 2022 but it doesn't apply to 2021 when we hit 200, good for 7th in the league. That wasn't far behind Houston who finished 4th with 214 and won the World Series.

 

21 was the year of having a terrible BP and we pulled a SP that was dealing for AJ Cole. The seasons short coming shining through

[BTS]

You’re taking anecdotal evidence from nearly a decade ago to make a point. The Biuejays playoff performance failures have usually mirrored their regular season shortcomings. This year especially so. It was wasn’t random bad luck. It was exactly what the Masterbathers of the world knew would happen.

 

You have a collection of .750 bats that can scrap together some runs good enough during the regular season, but they’d be extra susceptible to good pitching. Need more chances of someone running into a HR

 

When Toronto lost last year it was because they needed outfielders who could defend, and not just run into a few homeruns. When they lost this year it was because they needed outfielders who could run into a few homeruns, and not just defend. When they lost in the AA years they were too reliant on the HR and didn't have enough contact hitters. Other years they lacked an Andrew Miller type. Other years a true ace.'

 

Fans always want to point to the singular obvious reason why the team lost (usually management is dumb for not seeing it). It's never just "well s***, good roster but things didn't work out".

[BTS]

What the team actually needs is a star they can rely on for 4-5 wins, because Vlad isn’t that. Their 2024 season isn’t going to hinge on whether their 2-win LF is mostly bat or mostly glove.

[connorp]

When Toronto lost last year it was because they needed outfielders who could defend, and not just run into a few homeruns. When they lost this year it was because they needed outfielders who could run into a few homeruns, and not just defend. When they lost in the AA years they were too reliant on the HR and didn't have enough contact hitters. Other years they lacked an Andrew Miller type. Other years a true ace.'

 

Fans always want to point to the singular obvious reason why the team lost (usually management is dumb for not seeing it). It's never just "well s***, good roster but things didn't work out".

 

I can understand the reasoning you’re trying to lay down, but objective observers were sour on the Jays going in. The two places I saw all the playoff teams ranked, had the Jays offense ranked 9th and 10th out of 12 respectively. Marlins shouldn’t even count.

[BTS]

I can understand the reasoning you’re trying to lay down, but objective observers were sour on the Jays going in. The two places I saw all the playoff teams ranked, had the Jays offense ranked 9th and 10th out of 12 respectively. Marlins shouldn’t even count.

 

Well yeah, but I think we’re talking past each other. No team is perfect. The point I was making earlier is that even WS winners have had major flaws. You’re probably not going to assemble a flawless 105+ win team, so you assemble a 90–95 win team and hope to get lucky, and that your flaws don’t hurt you too much in the playoffs.

 

Add wins where you can find them. If you get tunnel vision about power, you might open up bigger flaws than you have to somewhere else (OF defense? Bullpen?). Then fans are here a year from now talking about how they need outfielders who can catch the ball, or a pen that can get 9 outs.

[Laika]

The pessimists within like 26 different fanbases get to say "I told you so" at this time of year

 

It's generally not helpful to pretend that these people have special baseball knowledge or worthwhile opinions about roster construction. I mean sometimes they have a point but by the end of the year almost every team is a loser so you aren't special or smart just because you pointed out the Jays flaws all year long.

[L54]

What the team actually needs is a star they can rely on for 4-5 wins, because Vlad isn’t that. Their 2024 season isn’t going to hinge on whether their 2-win LF is mostly bat or mostly glove.

 

Yes they do and that player is likely to be borderline elite offensively because not many glove first 5 WAR players. I will be ATTACKED for saying this but they clearly need another all star caliber player if they’re going to be serious

[Laika]

That's basically the 2023 problem in a nutshell. I know other things went wrong and several players didn't hit well but if Vlad was a star it's a completely different team.

[connorp]

Well yeah, but I think we’re talking past each other. No team is perfect. The point I was making earlier is that even WS winners have had major flaws. You’re probably not going to assemble a flawless 105+ win team, so you assemble a 90–95 win team and hope to get lucky, and that your flaws don’t hurt you too much in the playoffs.

 

Add wins where you can find them. If you get tunnel vision about power, you might open up bigger flaws than you have to somewhere else (OF defense? Bullpen?). Then fans are here a year from now talking about how they need outfielders who can catch the ball, or a pen that can get 9 outs.

 

Phillies have played 4 games, Wheeler has started two. Gaining wins with Cavan Biggio and his equivalent in pitching doesn’t mean much when you get to the post-season, because they become worthless. The line between elite defense and solid defense doesnt present itself in a short series like it may over 162 games. In fact, often times it needs more then 162 games to manifest itself. There’s definitely a “type” of roster that’s built better for the post season compared to a team that may have won a similar amount of games in the regular season.

 

That doesn’t guarantee success to course, you can go in with three aces and they can have bad games. But certain recipes are better than others and the Jays weren’t cooking anything good this year with those bats

[Olerud363]

Phillies have played 4 games, Wheeler has started two. Gaining wins with Cavan Biggio and his equivalent in pitching doesn’t mean much when you get to the post-season, because they become worthless. The line between elite defense and solid defense doesnt present itself in a short series like it may over 162 games. In fact, often times it needs more then 162 games to manifest itself. There’s definitely a “type” of roster that’s built better for the post season compared to a team that may have won a similar amount of games in the regular season.

 

That doesnÂ’t guarantee success to course, you can go in with three aces and they can have bad games. But certain recipes are better than others and the Jays werenÂ’t cooking anything good this year with those bats

 

Not sure that exactly makes sense? Biggio's win's don't manifest themselves? Well in a short playoff series, everyone will contribute on average 2 or 3% of their regular season wins. 5 win player will contribute .2 wins or something on average, in a 3 game series, Winning team will have 2 wins, so the 20 players who appear contribute (in an abstract sense) .1 win, however the true distribution will have much more variation without the smoothing of 160 games.

 

So will Biggio contribute less than his expectation given regular season WAR? I don't think so. Problem was Biggio was the Jays 5th hitter with a lower chance of contributing 'wins' than say Royce Lewis or Carlos Correa.

 

Twins were a weird team with a lot of partial seasons so better than their run differential (which was still not bad).

 

I'm fine with Biggio playing playoff games next year if he is the 9th hitter. A .240 .330 .390 9th hitter? That's fine. Biggio can't be the 5th hitter, and the 3rd hitter can't be a 1 WAR player. Need some 3 to 5 WAR guys in the lineup (as others are saying).

 

Phillies? Gausman = Wheeler... except Gaussman f***s up the important games because as a 2 pitch pitcher simple to game plan for? Is that true? It seems that way from watching on TV, but who knows, Jays need to figure that out too.

[connorp]

There were plenty of games teams were fully prepared for Gausman I’m sure. He just didn’t have it. Again, everyone will have an opinion though

[connorp]

I wonder what narratives were getting tossed out there when Kershaw got annihilated.

[Olerud363]

I wonder what narratives were getting tossed out there when Kershaw got annihilated.

 

Note I didn't say I 100% believe the narrative that Gausman is easy to plan for... just that a lot of other do, and I'm open to it. Would be interesting to see a statistical analysis as to whether he has a wider deviation of outcomes as compared to a control group.