Would you fire Atkins

[Stangstag]

Nobody said this.

 

You are a horrible, horrible poster. You consistently get into personal conflicts with people because you suck at writing, you can't make a brief argument, and you misrepresent others all the time.

 

Nobody said the Jays have a "secret". It's not a secret at all. It's very obvious what their strategy has been, and it worked. That's not shocking nor is it luck.

 

He’s an insufferable mule 90% of of the time. Strongly considering putting him on ignore again lol

[Laika]

he’s an insufferable mule 90% of of the time. Strongly considering putting him on ignore again lol

 

Definitely in the running for LVP

 

Lack of substance + high volume / word count = massive negative posting WAR

[Brownie19]

Nobody said this.

 

You are a horrible, horrible poster. You consistently get into personal conflicts with people because you suck at writing, you can't make a brief argument, and you misrepresent others all the time.

 

Nobody said the Jays have a "secret". It's not a secret at all. It's very obvious what their strategy has been, and it worked. That's not shocking nor is it luck.

 

[jaysblue]

Nobody said this.

 

You are a horrible, horrible poster. You consistently get into personal conflicts with people because you suck at writing, you can't make a brief argument, and you misrepresent others all the time.

 

Nobody said the Jays have a "secret". It's not a secret at all. It's very obvious what their strategy has been, and it worked. That's not shocking nor is it luck.

 

Yes it's a strategy that has worked so far. And I've given Atkins credit for assembling a strong rotation. But there is a factor of luck involved with everyone staying healthy, which you fail to acknowledge. Next season or the year after it could be different.

[deanmike]

 

Holy. f***ing. s***.

 

I'd like to know if anyone has any alternative theories on who could have leaked this.

 

Remember, because the Berrios decision is widely regarded as a negative (unless you're Atkins who basically said it only looked like a mistake because the offense didn't step up with run support, but also doesn't want to take responsibility for having a hand in the decision himself), the person who leaked this basically has to be motivated by painting James Click in a negative light.

[Terminator]

Nobody said this.

 

You are a horrible, horrible poster. You consistently get into personal conflicts with people because you suck at writing, you can't make a brief argument, and you misrepresent others all the time.

 

Nobody said the Jays have a "secret". It's not a secret at all. It's very obvious what their strategy has been, and it worked. That's not shocking nor is it luck.

 

Now THIS is an attack

 

 

Wow!

[Terminator]

 

Holy. f***ing. s***.

 

I'd like to know if anyone has any alternative theories on who could have leaked this.

 

Remember, because the Berrios decision is widely regarded as a negative (unless you're Atkins who basically said it only looked like a mistake because the offense didn't step up with run support, but also doesn't want to take responsibility for having a hand in the decision himself), the person who leaked this basically has to be motivated by painting James Click in a negative light.

 

Ross Atkins obviously leaked it to help stave off the casuals calling for his head and wanting him replaced with Click.

 

Or maybe Jeff Blair is full of s*** because the FO is pretty airtight and he has no sources and no clicks on any of his articles anymore.

[Terminator]

Yes it's a strategy that has worked so far. And I've given Atkins credit for assembling a strong rotation. But there is a factor of luck involved with everyone staying healthy, which you fail to acknowledge. Next season or the year after it could be different.

 

I think it's a case of doing whatever is within your power to make your own luck. And of course next year could definitely be different so cancel whatever plans you have for posting "I was attacked for saying this last year but I told you the rotation wasn't going to be 100 percent healthy next year".

 

No plan on keeping pitchers healthy and effective is going to work 100% of the time. That certainly wasn't the case this year as Ryu was out for half the year, Manoah turned into a pile, Cimber got hurt, etc.

[BTS]

 

Holy. f***ing. s***.

 

I'd like to know if anyone has any alternative theories on who could have leaked this.

 

Remember, because the Berrios decision is widely regarded as a negative (unless you're Atkins who basically said it only looked like a mistake because the offense didn't step up with run support, but also doesn't want to take responsibility for having a hand in the decision himself), the person who leaked this basically has to be motivated by painting James Click in a negative light.

 

This is honestly embarrassing. Not a single plausible explanation for this leak reflects positively on Atkins as a leader, and this feckless beta needs to be fired posthaste.

[deanmike]

This is honestly embarrassing. Not a single plausible explanation for this leak reflects positively on Atkins as a leader, and this feckless beta needs to be fired posthaste.

 

Yeah, anyone who is still an Atkins supporter after what has gone down since the season ended, their baseball opinions cannot be taken seriously at all, and are borderline or straight up positivity trolls.

[ilovejohnschneider]

Yeah, anyone who is still an Atkins supporter after what has gone down since the season ended, their baseball opinions cannot be taken seriously at all, and are borderline or straight up positivity trolls.

 

better to be a "positivity troll" than always negative like u!

[Brownie19]

Yeah, anyone who is still an Atkins supporter after what has gone down since the season ended, their baseball opinions cannot be taken seriously at all, and are borderline or straight up positivity trolls.

 

you say that like people take your opinions seriously around here...

[The Iceman]

The theory the day before the game of pulling Berrios if there was a runner on, 2nd time through with the pocket of LHH is sound.

Doesn't matter whose idea it was.

 

The person who executed pulling Berrios after having eyes on him is the problem. Berrios was super strong. ABORT-ABORT

[jaysblue]

[Brownie19]

The theory the day before the game of pulling Berrios if there was a runner on, 2nd time through with the pocket of LHH is sound.

Doesn't matter whose idea it was.

 

The person who executed pulling Berrios after having eyes on him is the problem. Berrios was super strong. ABORT-ABORT

 

I think that's a fair way to look at it. Of course if they used the eye test and Kepler takes Berrios deep, I'm not sure the "well he was looking good" defense against pulling him would have been 100% supported. Analytics are a thing because of how poorly the "eye test" has historically been...

 

I'd love to know what their numbers suggested the probability of Kikucci coming in and having success was. If it suggested Kikucci would have an 80% probability of success in that situation, while Berrios would have had a 50% probability of success in that situation (without factoring in that he was pitching "better than expected"), would you be comfortable going with the "eye test" over the "numbers"? How big of a gap would be required for you to say "f*** it - I can't go with the eye test, the probability of Kikucci succeeding is so much higher than Berrios that I must pull him".

[deanmike]

you say that like people take your opinions seriously around here...

 

You say that like you're the arbiter on who's opinions are worth taking seriously. You really that full of yourself Brownie?

[Terminator]

I think that's a fair way to look at it. Of course if they used the eye test and Kepler takes Berrios deep, I'm not sure the "well he was looking good" defense against pulling him would have been 100% supported. Analytics are a thing because of how poorly the "eye test" has historically been...

 

I'd love to know what their numbers suggested the probability of Kikucci coming in and having success was. If it suggested Kikucci would have an 80% probability of success in that situation, while Berrios would have had a 50% probability of success in that situation (without factoring in that he was pitching "better than expected"), would you be comfortable going with the "eye test" over the "numbers"? How big of a gap would be required for you to say "f*** it - I can't go with the eye test, the probability of Kikucci succeeding is so much higher than Berrios that I must pull him".

 

It's also tough to gauge because of how it affects the rest of the game. Kikuchi gave up 2 runs (on 4 GBs and a walk) but the Twins burned all their pinch hitters and were stuck with a pretty garbage lineup against RHP the rest of the game. The Jays bullpen mowed them down the rest of the game largely because of the Berrios-Kikuchi decision.

[Brownie19]

It's also tough to gauge because of how it affects the rest of the game. Kikuchi gave up 2 runs (on 4 GBs and a walk) but the Twins burned all their pinch hitters and were stuck with a pretty garbage lineup against RHP the rest of the game. The Jays bullpen mowed them down the rest of the game largely because of the Berrios-Kikuchi decision.

 

I figure that's all baked into the numbers, but it's a good point. I think it's pretty easy to see why this was a solid "strategy". Fair debate about whether they should have waited to implement the strategy an inning or 2 later, but overall, the strategy did generally work. You can't come in an walk guys, but I think we all know that more often than not, those groundballs don't find holes and we're out of that inning. Us humans sure have a difficult time understanding the flaw in judging a decision based on the outcome. Prior to the game, if you were told that we'd give up 2 runs in Game 2, I think almost everyone would say "that's great - that's all we can ask for". Until you can't score a single run and now everyone is up and losing their minds over it and who's call it was - instead of blaming the hitters/offense (like they probably should).

[John_Havok]

The theory the day before the game of pulling Berrios if there was a runner on, 2nd time through with the pocket of LHH is sound.

Doesn't matter whose idea it was.

 

The person who executed pulling Berrios after having eyes on him is the problem. Berrios was super strong. ABORT-ABORT

 

Can't think of a better way to have said this. Well done.

[Terminator]

I figure that's all baked into the numbers, but it's a good point. I think it's pretty easy to see why this was a solid "strategy". Fair debate about whether they should have waited to implement the strategy an inning or 2 later, but overall, the strategy did generally work. You can't come in an walk guys, but I think we all know that more often than not, those groundballs don't find holes and we're out of that inning. Us humans sure have a difficult time understanding the flaw in judging a decision based on the outcome. Prior to the game, if you were told that we'd give up 2 runs in Game 2, I think almost everyone would say "that's great - that's all we can ask for". Until you can't score a single run and now everyone is up and losing their minds over it and who's call it was - instead of blaming the hitters/offense (like they probably should).

 

Good points and they also had to win Game 3! So when they saw Berrios dealing they could have simply switched gears and used the plan for Game 3.

[John_Havok]

Good points and they also had to win Game 3! So when they saw Berrios dealing they could have simply switched gears and used the plan for Game 3.

 

Would have been interesting for sure to see how they would have handled Bassitt in a very similar situation in a hypothetical Game 3, given he also gets crushed by lefties.

[Brownie19]

Good points and they also had to win Game 3! So when they saw Berrios dealing they could have simply switched gears and used the plan for Game 3.

 

Would have been interesting for sure to see how they would have handled Bassitt in a very similar situation in a hypothetical Game 3, given he also gets crushed by lefties.

 

Valid points. I suspect the mindset was "we need to win Game 2 first. Can't save this good strategy for Game 3...". I think most would agree with that approach.

[tazsub3]

i think shatkins praying for a leafs loss tonight, so they barely make the papers or sportscenter the day after

[Terminator]

Atkins definitely praying for a D-Backs exit I can tell you that.

[deanmike]

Atkins definitely praying for a D-Backs exit I can tell you that.

 

Do you think he's also praying specifically for Gurriel and Moreno to be ice cold and play like dogshit in the process?

[John_Havok]

Valid points. I suspect the mindset was "we need to win Game 2 first. Can't save this good strategy for Game 3...". I think most would agree with that approach.

 

I was moreso wondering if they would have done it again in game 3 had they won game 2, just by using one of the other lefties

[John_Havok]

Atkins definitely praying for a D-Backs exit I can tell you that.

 

Atkins doesn't give 2 shits about that. Executives don't linger on things that have nothing to do with their team very often

[L54]

you say that like people take your opinions seriously around here...

 

Which posters don’t take his opinion seriously? I think dean has been an above average poster here since he joined.

 

Why don’t you just disagree instead of trying to act like the king of the playground

[glory]

Atkins definitely praying for a D-Backs exit I can tell you that.

 

I doubt it. If anyone questioned Atkins about that trade, he'd just deny his involvement in it.

[Omar]

I doubt it. If anyone questioned Atkins about that trade, he'd just deny his involvement in it.

 

He wasn't even in the room when it happened.