Would you fire Atkins

[Doubleplay21]

Since Schneider is returning as manager he should just stay in his hotel room. That way he has access to all the computer spreadsheets

[tazsub3]

I am getting the feeling with all that negative media attention, rogers will act.

Who remains to be seen, but someone will be fired

[Omar]

these three stooges who thinks varsho is an elite player

 

spanky

omar

carlos danger

 

now these clowns are singing a different tune

 

 

[Stangstag]

I am getting the feeling with all that negative media attention, rogers will act.

Who remains to be seen, but someone will be fired

 

Hopefully Atkins gone and Click gets the job.

 

Sick of him, especially after being such a snake in this latest presser

[JFD]

You know it's bad when even Wilner is pissed.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/deep-left-field-with-mike-wilner/id1556958144?i=1000630558287

[travisinfla]

Shapiro created this culture. He needs to go.

[Spanky99]

lol

[JFD]

lol

 

You ok bud? Are you turning into the Joker?

[Spanky99]

You ok bud? Are you turning into the Joker?

 

Well, I hardly think Shapiro's job is in jeopardy, as for the others we'll see come time for Thursday in his presser. They all may be back, lol.

[Olerud363]

Well, I hardly think Shapiro's job is in jeopardy, as for the others we'll see come time for Thursday in his presser. They all may be back, lol.

 

'is in' jeopardy? Probably not. 'Should be' in jeopardy. I think so.

 

Since 1993 the Jays have just been on repeat. Which teams have failed to win 95 games since 1993? Toronto, Miami Marlins... any others?

 

Toronto has won 1 division title since 1993, and had to have one of the most massive trade deadlines in baseball history to even get that.

 

Otherwise the good years have been high 80s/low 90s in wins, with the additional playoff spots making things 'seem' better than the late 90s Gord Ash era, or the 2006-2010 era, but in reality not too much different.

 

Now the organization has massive issues, 2 years in a row ending on a controversial playoff loss, multiple players with nutrition issues, media turning against team even the loyal ones.

 

That being said I have no confidence Ed Rogers or whoever would be able to hire a better president. What they need is a like-able guy, well educated, on top of latest trends in analytics, great communicator... like Ed Rogers could make that hire.

[jaysblue]

If both of these guys are returning, im gonna go ahead and say 2024 will be a shitshow. Like Whitesox level circus

 

I hope both Atkins and JS are gone. After catching up on what was said at the press conference and hearing more about the player morale in the clubhouse after that decision was made, can't really get excited if Atkins and JS are back. I think you need to bring in new leaders to right the ship. Can't keep the status quo again with Atkins and JS.

[deanmike]

 

Seems like Atkins is done, just a matter of when not if. This guy is legit and has wide ranging sources, he's just more well known in the hockey scene than baseball scene. Shapiro is likely safe because of the dome upgrades like many anticipated, nothing on JS yet.

[Laika]

Those tweets mean nothing, lol. It's a sports fan / blogger's opinion.

[deanmike]

Those tweets mean nothing, lol. It's a sports fan / blogger's opinion.

 

Sports blogger with legit sources in the telecoms (Rogers/Bell/etc). He's always the first to report stuff like mass layoffs at these companies and major programming changes for the upcoming year. Don't blame you for not understanding this context though, like I said he's most well known among hockey people. The information he chooses to put out there though is almost always legit regardless of sport.

[AMS528]

Saw this on reddit and it was interesting.

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/mismanaging-managers-has-been-jays-way

 

In his book released earlier this year, Gibby: Tales of A Baseball Lifer, Gibbons described the challenges.

 

“It was truly so different for me than it had been working with (former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Alex Anthopoulos),” Gibbons wrote. “Decisions were made, and not only was I not consulted, but they directly changed how I operated.”

 

In other words, the old-school managerial style had no place. Gibbons further explained that the coercion from the front office demanded a certain passive personality to fit.

 

“Because some guys are very flexible and they want a job so bad, they’ll do anything to appease everybody to save themselves,” Gibbons wrote. “Not me. I figure bosses should know the real person they’re getting, not some phoney politician.”

 

Gibby is the best, and I believe him when he's saying this. Which makes it even worse that Atkins threw Schneider under the bus in his press conference.

[Krylian]

Saw this on reddit and it was interesting.

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/mismanaging-managers-has-been-jays-way

 

 

 

Gibby is the best, and I believe him when he's saying this. Which makes it even worse that Atkins threw Schneider under the bus in his press conference.

 

But are you really surprised that this is the kind of person that Atkins is (sacrificing his puppet)? I'm not. He doesn't have the balls to take any accountability.

[The Cats Ass]

I think Atkins gets another year. It's hard to hate his process and thinking. It just ended up being an undesirable outcome.

 

We had the highest wRC+ in the AL last year(2022). Our downfall was pitching and defense, he made moves to improve both.

 

The hitting he moved Hernández(130 wRC+) and Gurriel Jr.(115) he replaced with Belt(138) and Kiermaier(104). We should have in theory had very similar runs scored in 2023 to 2022. Unfortunately Bo, Vladdy, Springer, Chapman, Kirk, and Jansen all declined at the same time. And when the trade deadline came around there weren't any bats available that would have helped us.

 

We improved on our weaknesses in 2023. We went from 8th in DRS to 1st. In pitching we went from 11th in WAR to 5th; if Manoah was even decent we probably end up 2nd. Now we have to hope Atkins has a plan to improve our hitting, he can't go into next season expecting bounce backs from all of the 6 that declined this year. History shows he's been able to address our weaknesses.

[John_Havok]

I think Atkins gets another year. It's hard to hate his process and thinking. It just ended up being an undesirable outcome.

 

We had the highest wRC+ in the AL last year(2022). Our downfall was pitching and defense, he made moves to improve both.

 

The hitting he moved Hernández(130 wRC+) and Gurriel Jr.(115) he replaced with Belt(138) and Kiermaier(104). We should have in theory had very similar runs scored in 2023 to 2022. Unfortunately Bo, Vladdy, Springer, Chapman, Kirk, and Jansen all declined at the same time. And when the trade deadline came around there weren't any bats available that would have helped us.

 

We improved on our weaknesses in 2023. We went from 8th in DRS to 1st. In pitching we went from 11th in WAR to 5th; if Manoah was even decent we probably end up 2nd. Now we have to hope Atkins has a plan to improve our hitting, he can't go into next season expecting bounce backs from all of the 6 that declined this year. History shows he's been able to address our weaknesses.

 

I agree with everything here except the part about Bo and Jansen being included in the declining player category. 116 wRC+ with 17 bombs and 2 fWAR in just a hair over 300 PAs I’ll take from my catcher any season. Ditto 125 wRC+ and 4fWAR from my SS. His counting numbers were only down due to missing ~90 PA from his injury.

[Krylian]

I think Atkins gets another year. It's hard to hate his process and thinking. It just ended up being an undesirable outcome.

 

We had the highest wRC+ in the AL last year(2022). Our downfall was pitching and defense, he made moves to improve both.

 

The hitting he moved Hernández(130 wRC+) and Gurriel Jr.(115) he replaced with Belt(138) and Kiermaier(104). We should have in theory had very similar runs scored in 2023 to 2022. Unfortunately Bo, Vladdy, Springer, Chapman, Kirk, and Jansen all declined at the same time. And when the trade deadline came around there weren't any bats available that would have helped us.

 

We improved on our weaknesses in 2023. We went from 8th in DRS to 1st. In pitching we went from 11th in WAR to 5th; if Manoah was even decent we probably end up 2nd. Now we have to hope Atkins has a plan to improve our hitting, he can't go into next season expecting bounce backs from all of the 6 that declined this year. History shows he's been able to address our weaknesses.

 

Where I work our year end evaluations have 2 overall components...It's basically, 1. What you do, and 2. How you do it.

 

The 'What you do', is the draft, trades, FA signings, etc...the parts that you're outlining. The 'How you do it' part would be, for example, how he handled "The Decision". Atkins completely removed himself from the situation. That's not what a leader does. No one under him is going to trust him going forward.

 

Let's say for, arguments sake, that it was completely Schneider's decision. As the GM, Atkins should still be protecting his people and taking accountability (especially if you plan on keeping them around). If Schneider was responsible, Atkins was accountable. That's how the hierarchy of power should work. Shifting all blame to Schneider, I guarantee you, has eroded any trust that existed between the two. And I'm betting the players are displeased as well at how their manager was sewered.

[MikeM3]

I think Atkins gets another year. It's hard to hate his process and thinking. It just ended up being an undesirable outcome.

 

We had the highest wRC+ in the AL last year(2022). Our downfall was pitching and defense, he made moves to improve both.

 

The hitting he moved Hernández(130 wRC+) and Gurriel Jr.(115) he replaced with Belt(138) and Kiermaier(104). We should have in theory had very similar runs scored in 2023 to 2022. Unfortunately Bo, Vladdy, Springer, Chapman, Kirk, and Jansen all declined at the same time. And when the trade deadline came around there weren't any bats available that would have helped us.

 

We improved on our weaknesses in 2023. We went from 8th in DRS to 1st. In pitching we went from 11th in WAR to 5th; if Manoah was even decent we probably end up 2nd. Now we have to hope Atkins has a plan to improve our hitting, he can't go into next season expecting bounce backs from all of the 6 that declined this year. History shows he's been able to address our weaknesses.

 

It's just whack a mole when u build your team exclusively through MLB transactions though. You're dealing with all 30+ year Olds. There's so much volatility with declines that holes open up out of nowhere.

 

The only way to be sure of what you have is development because you're getting much longer and more predictable windows of a players career. And we suck at that

 

Next year Bassitt and Kikuchi will get hurt. Gausman will lose a tick and decline then we'll say damn who could see the pitching fall apart

[jaysblue]

Next year Bassitt and Kikuchi will get hurt. Gausman will lose a tick and decline then we'll say damn who could see the pitching fall apart

 

Wait a second, doesn't the Jays FO have a secret formula that no other team has where they only target veteran, durable and healthy starting pitchers? Their starters can't get hurt!

 

If one or two starters do miss time, it will just be bad luck and under performance though!

 

On a more serious note, I think the rotation is still very strong and I give Atkins credit on that front. Luckily everyone stayed healthy and made 31+ starts. Can't assume that all will happen again next season though. Like you said, maybe Bassitt or Berrios have an injury, Kikuchi regresses a bit, or Gausman loses a tick. It could happen. 4/5ths of their rotation are 30 or above and acquired as FAs or via trade. Tough really for the Jays to lose the equivalent arms of what the Rays lost or Dodgers or Braves this season with their rotations.

 

That's why the Jays need to take advantage of having guys like Gausman at the top of his game and their other rotation arms healthy and productive. Every year that passes, they all get older, more innings on their arms, and who knows what the next season holds. Window keeps getting smaller and smaller.

[Spanky99]

Wait a second, doesn't the Jays FO have a secret formula that no other team has where they only target veteran, durable and healthy starting pitchers? Their starters can't get hurt!

 

If one or two starters do miss time, it will just be bad luck and under performance though!.

 

This is lame, Sil.

[Terminator]

"Window keeps getting smaller" is the new "The ship is sinking"

[The Cats Ass]

Wait a second, doesn't the Jays FO have a secret formula that no other team has where they only target veteran, durable and healthy starting pitchers? Their starters can't get hurt!

 

If one or two starters do miss time, it will just be bad luck and under performance though!

 

On a more serious note, I think the rotation is still very strong and I give Atkins credit on that front. Luckily everyone stayed healthy and made 31+ starts. Can't assume that all will happen again next season though. Like you said, maybe Bassitt or Berrios have an injury, Kikuchi regresses a bit, or Gausman loses a tick. It could happen. 4/5ths of their rotation are 30 or above and acquired as FAs or via trade. Tough really for the Jays to lose the equivalent arms of what the Rays lost or Dodgers or Braves this season with their rotations.

 

That's why the Jays need to take advantage of having guys like Gausman at the top of his game and their other rotation arms healthy and productive. Every year that passes, they all get older, more innings on their arms, and who knows what the next season holds. Window keeps getting smaller and smaller.

 

That happened this year though? Our co-ace turned to s*** and pretty much missed the year/ under performed.

[jaysblue]

This is lame, Sil.

 

It's not lame Jay. Some posters have actually said that lol. If one or two starters get injured next season, it will be because of bad luck and there was no way they could see it coming, so free pass. But 4/5ths of their rotation stays all healthy and makes 31+ starts this season is because this FO is brilliant with their own secret formula in targeting only healthy and durable pitchers. Some luck is involved with everyone staying healthy. We can't assume that will keep staying the same in 2024 and 2025 where everyone is making 30+ starts.

 

You should have also read the rest of my post where I clarified that I think the rotation is still very strong on paper and give Atkins credit for assembling a strong rotation!

[jaysblue]

That happened this year though? Our co-ace turned to s*** and pretty much missed the year/ under performed.

 

Yup and good thing Berrios and Kikuchi stepped up in a big way!

 

Rays still lost guys like McClanahan, Springs, Rasmussen, and were without Glasnow to start the season. Definitely a bigger blow. Braves were without Kyle Wright and Fried missed some time due to injury. Also didn't have Mike Soroka and looks now like Charlie Morton could be injured. Dodgers only got 15 starts from Buehler, Gonsolin underperformed and got injured, lost Urias to suspension, and lost Dustin May to injury. Kershaw also only made 24 starts. If the equivalent happened to the Blue Jays, they would be in trouble.

[Stangstag]

It's not lame Jay. Some posters have actually said that lol. If one or two starters get injured next season, it will be because of bad luck and there was no way they could see it coming, so free pass. But 4/5ths of their rotation stays all healthy and makes 31+ starts this season is because this FO is brilliant with their own secret formula in targeting only healthy and durable pitchers. Some luck is involved with everyone staying healthy. We can't assume that will keep staying the same in 2024 and 2025 where everyone is making 30+ starts.

 

You should have also read the rest of my post where I clarified that I think the rotation is still very strong on paper and give Atkins credit for assembling a strong rotation!

 

You seem to miss the fact that Manoah was absolutely awful in 2023, our depth guy White was also atrocious, and our top prospect that was expected to make a few starts got injured. In 2022 we had 2 guys (Kikuchi and Berrios) that both performed like s*** and provided next to nothing.

 

And even with that, the rotation was still adequate both seasons.

[Stangstag]

Yup and good thing Berrios and Kikuchi stepped up in a big way!

 

Rays still lost guys like McClanahan, Springs, Rasmussen, and were without Glasnow to start the season. Definitely a bigger blow. Braves were without Kyle Wright and Fried missed some time due to injury. Also didn't have Mike Soroka and looks now like Charlie Morton could be injured. Dodgers only got 15 starts from Buehler, Gonsolin underperformed and got injured, lost Urias to suspension, and lost Dustin May to injury. Kershaw also only made 24 starts. If the equivalent happened to the Blue Jays, they would be in trouble.

 

Ok?? But it didn’t.

[Laika]

It's not lame Jay. Some posters have actually said that lol.

 

Nobody said this.

 

You are a horrible, horrible poster. You consistently get into personal conflicts with people because you suck at writing, you can't make a brief argument, and you misrepresent others all the time.

 

Nobody said the Jays have a "secret". It's not a secret at all. It's very obvious what their strategy has been, and it worked. That's not shocking nor is it luck.

[BTS]

Nobody said this.

 

You are a horrible, horrible poster. You consistently get into personal conflicts with people because you suck at writing, you can't make a brief argument, and you misrepresent others all the time.

 

Nobody said the Jays have a "secret". It's not a secret at all. It's very obvious what their strategy has been, and it worked. That's not shocking nor is it luck.

 

wow!