Would you fire Atkins

[hanton]

why is it so close?

[Nexii]

I do hope the Jays clean house on the management side. They still have a lot of talented players on the roster (pitching especially) who could do better with better guidance. I feel that Vlad/Kirk/Manoah being overweight is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all the weird things that went on this season.

[connorp]

why is it so close?

 

It includes last year I think

[Spanky99]

why is it so close?

 

The Poll? This thread was opened after last season.

[hanton]

The Poll? This thread was opened after last season.

 

yes. That explains it then

[Razz8255]

This is exactly the proper point.

 

Many people want JS fired and Atkins fired so the organization can install a more traditional manager and perhaps a more traditional GM?

 

In my head the organization is just a fence sitter. It's not really doing anything in an advanced or progressive way. They have their cool compound and an analytics department and a guy on the MLB staff to try to implement analytics but.... half the league or more has all of that. You need to TAKE RISKS and actually FIND A f***ING EDGE.

 

Toronto needs to commit more to modern baseball. Dump Mattingly, dump everyone who seems like an old baseball mind. Go hire a new MLB hitting coach with a biomechanics/physics degree, straight out of one of those hitting labs. Get him working with some of these hitters all offseason on just hitting f***ing bombs, and recognizing the new pitches like sweepers.

 

Some of these hitters, all season long, looked like they'd never seen a sweeper before. Egregious. Laymen with podcasts knew two years ago that sweepers were the next big pitching development.

You mean these hitters couldn't keep up with a fastball.

Some of the fastballs that were so hittable at 94 MPH

[Terminator]

This is exactly the proper point.

 

Many people want JS fired and Atkins fired so the organization can install a more traditional manager and perhaps a more traditional GM?

 

In my head the organization is just a fence sitter. It's not really doing anything in an advanced or progressive way. They have their cool compound and an analytics department and a guy on the MLB staff to try to implement analytics but.... half the league or more has all of that. You need to TAKE RISKS and actually FIND A f***ING EDGE.

 

Toronto needs to commit more to modern baseball. Dump Mattingly, dump everyone who seems like an old baseball mind. Go hire a new MLB hitting coach with a biomechanics/physics degree, straight out of one of those hitting labs. Get him working with some of these hitters all offseason on just hitting f***ing bombs, and recognizing the new pitches like sweepers.

 

Some of these hitters, all season long, looked like they'd never seen a sweeper before. Egregious. Laymen with podcasts knew two years ago that sweepers were the next big pitching development.

 

Shots fired at Dave Hudgens

[L54]

Yes, they should all get participation medals

 

Agreed

[Jonn]

Your 0-6 in the playoffs I think someone has to get fired. He already fired Montoyo he can fire Schneider but if he's just going to employee another puppet does it really matter?

 

It kinda has to be Atkins.

[Key22]

I don't think John Schneider is the reason they pulled Berrios - so Schneider is more of a puppet for the front office. How many managers does Atkins get to blame - he is the guy who hired Montoya and Schneider after all - so if anyone gets fired, it has to be Atkins.

 

The problem with firing Schneider, is who do you hire? Do you hire a front office yes man or do you hire someone like Buck Showalter who would make his own decision and keep Berrios in and go against the suits/upper management?

 

All the ex-managers available were all fired at some point so who is good? Mattingly was canned, Showalter was canned, Nevin was canned.

 

If you fire Atkins - same issue. And the free agent hitter class seems really weak to me. Maybe you look internally and then double up on your strength - maybe you put Orelvis Martinez in at third to replace Chapman, because you won't likely take an offensive hit there - maybe you use the $55 million coming off the books to sign Blake Snell and Josh Hader? Retain Hicks and Green. Make a trade or three for some bats?

[Stangstag]

I don't think John Schneider is the reason they pulled Berrios - so Schneider is more of a puppet for the front office. How many managers does Atkins get to blame - he is the guy who hired Montoya and Schneider after all - so if anyone gets fired, it has to be Atkins.

 

The problem with firing Schneider, is who do you hire? Do you hire a front office yes man or do you hire someone like Buck Showalter who would make his own decision and keep Berrios in and go against the suits/upper management?

 

All the ex-managers available were all fired at some point so who is good? Mattingly was canned, Showalter was canned, Nevin was canned.

 

If you fire Atkins - same issue. And the free agent hitter class seems really weak to me. Maybe you look internally and then double up on your strength - maybe you put Orelvis Martinez in at third to replace Chapman, because you won't likely take an offensive hit there - maybe you use the $55 million coming off the books to sign Blake Snell and Josh Hader? Retain Hicks and Green. Make a trade or three for some bats?

 

95% of the remaining money should be pumped into the lineup this offseason IMO. We have 3B, 2B and LF to fill, and probably could do with another 1B/DH type too.

 

Rotation is fine, probably should add a 4th/5th starter for some depth. We currently have Manoah, White, Francis, and Tiedemann as 5th starter/depth.

 

Bullpen is fine IMO, i’d try to retain Green and maybe swing another Hicks-type trade at the deadline if needed.

[Key22]

95% of the remaining money should be pumped into the lineup this offseason IMO. We have 3B, 2B and LF to fill, and probably could do with another 1B/DH type too.

 

Rotation is fine, probably should add a 4th/5th starter for some depth. We currently have Manoah, White, Francis, and Tiedemann as 5th starter/depth.

 

Bullpen is fine IMO, i’d try to retain Green and maybe swing another Hicks-type trade at the deadline if needed.

 

I fully agree with you on what we need but I think the massive problem is the free agent market doesn't have any all-star calibre impact bats available - and that's what the Jays need - big time offensive players (other than Ohtani and Bellinger).

 

I'd love to have both of them as they sure would solve that dreaded left-handed hitter problem

 

But realistically, I doubt we get either one. Are there any other studs in free agency who would really transform this team's run production? If you try to make a trade for a big bat that trade conversation will start with Ricky Tiedemann. Do we trust Ross Atkins (Moreno and Gurriel for Varsho - OOOPS) and "let's sign Grichuk for 5 years" to find the offence?

 

We got lucky with almost no injuries all year to our starting staff - and I don't think anyone should count Manoah, White or Francis in rotation conversation in 2024. With Ryu gone and Kikuchi not pitching all that well in the latter 1/2 of the season - it's tough to not look at the rotation. And are the Jays really that confident in Romano? Romano/Hader/Hicks/Green/Mayza/Garcia - Maybe we just try and build from the best available talent - this year has few bats so we strengthen the pitching then next year with the pitching in place then we get the bats?

[jaysblue]

It includes last year I think

 

Should open a new poll

[gruber92]

Are there actually people here who think Atkins deserves more time and shouldn't be fired?

 

Can this be true?

[gruber92]

How big of a revenue stream is lost with that? Probably enough to be on the radar but not enough for them to start telling Shapiro to make changes with the GM.

 

This isn't the first time. f*** Atkins already, what's wrong with everybody?

[jaysblue]

95% of the remaining money should be pumped into the lineup this offseason IMO. We have 3B, 2B and LF to fill, and probably could do with another 1B/DH type too.

 

Rotation is fine, probably should add a 4th/5th starter for some depth. We currently have Manoah, White, Francis, and Tiedemann as 5th starter/depth.

 

Bullpen is fine IMO, i’d try to retain Green and maybe swing another Hicks-type trade at the deadline if needed.

 

Yup, need to replace 4 spots in the everyday lineup. I'm thinking they use Schneider/Biggio at either 2B or 3B. Have to get a masher for LF and 1B/DH. Also, whether it's Atkins or a new GM, I think you have to make a challenge trade by moving someone like Vladdy or Springer if you find a trading partner.

 

Rotation is fine but we can't assume all 4 starters come back and make another 31+ starts again. Would be nice to add another No. 4/5 starter for depth and have Manoah, White, Francis and Tiedemann waiting in the wings when an opening presents itself.

 

Bullpen is fine as well, but relievers are volatile and we can't assume all those arms comes back and pitch at a high level like they did this past season. Would definitely look at retaining Green or Hicks, but regardless I think there is enough depth if anything does go wrong and they could always add at the trade deadline.

 

Focus should definitely be offense and adding two big bats. Hopefully if those bats fill LF and DH, won't take a huge hit on the defensive side of things.

[jaysblue]

This isn't the first time. f*** Atkins already, what's wrong with everybody?

 

A lot of Atkins apologists on this board. I bet if these teams were under AA, majority would want him and his FO gone.

[tazsub3]

A lot of Atkins apologists on this board. I bet if these teams were under AA, majority would want him and his FO gone.

 

 

then again we might have a WS win, and be baseballs best team god forbid.

I still laugh when some say he traded the farm and i still wait for the ones he traded to become stars

[Spanky99]

Apologists everywhere, haven't seen much of that since this thread was bumped, if at all. Dingleberries.

[BigCecil]

This isn't the first time. f*** Atkins already, what's wrong with everybody?

 

Are you surprised that its 56/44? I'm not on this Board. I voted to fire him but I'm torn myself in the absence of understanding the alternative.

 

I cant stand Ned Flanders pressers and the FO decision on Berrios pisses me off to no end. But its a mixed bag on their performance for me. Lots of solid work and lots to criticize all of which is legit.

 

A lot of people on this Board didn't like AA but its funny he is the GM here that brought back Gibby, which was controversial, after his first tenure. AA wanted a Manager who would push back some. I've heard him interviewed on his reasoning. Charlie and JS especially is just an Org puppet. And thats exactly what Shatkins wants. JS would not be Mgr if he wasn't a puppet, so I dont understand getting mad at him. Even if I think he is useless.

 

I think the main reason I voted fire this year and not last, is I always believe the accountability should be at the top - not on JS or the coaches. The FO makes these decisions. The Berrios thing - the FO hiring of now two puppet Managers, who agreed to follow their directives. The state of the farm and over reliance on free agents, the price paid for a 2 WAR glove first OF'er and a pen arm, the lack of a true organizational edge and identity etc.

 

If they get another year that makes 9 and wouldn't be the worst thing. If he goes I'm fine with that too. Despite the legit criticisms I do think we could do a lot worse.

[Orgfiller]

A lot of Atkins apologists on this board. I bet if these teams were under AA, majority would want him and his FO gone.

 

So, you want Atkins fired because of the state of the team and org. But if it was AA instead in his position with the exact same results, it would be unreasonable if people would want him fired as well? You think people who defend Atkins are doing so because of his stunning good looks, dripping swag, and charismatic interviews?

[Stangstag]

Yup, need to replace 4 spots in the everyday lineup. I'm thinking they use Schneider/Biggio at either 2B or 3B. Have to get a masher for LF and 1B/DH. Also, whether it's Atkins or a new GM, I think you have to make a challenge trade by moving someone like Vladdy or Springer if you find a trading partner.

 

Rotation is fine but we can't assume all 4 starters come back and make another 31+ starts again. Would be nice to add another No. 4/5 starter for depth and have Manoah, White, Francis and Tiedemann waiting in the wings when an opening presents itself.

 

Bullpen is fine as well, but relievers are volatile and we can't assume all those arms comes back and pitch at a high level like they did this past season. Would definitely look at retaining Green or Hicks, but regardless I think there is enough depth if anything does go wrong and they could always add at the trade deadline.

 

Focus should definitely be offense and adding two big bats. Hopefully if those bats fill LF and DH, won't take a huge hit on the defensive side of things.

 

So we pretty much agree on everything. Lets hope the front office can fix the damn offense

[Brownie19]

Yup, need to replace 4 spots in the everyday lineup. I'm thinking they use Schneider/Biggio at either 2B or 3B. Have to get a masher for LF and 1B/DH. Also, whether it's Atkins or a new GM, I think you have to make a challenge trade by moving someone like Vladdy or Springer if you find a trading partner.

 

Rotation is fine but we can't assume all 4 starters come back and make another 31+ starts again. Would be nice to add another No. 4/5 starter for depth and have Manoah, White, Francis and Tiedemann waiting in the wings when an opening presents itself.

 

Bullpen is fine as well, but relievers are volatile and we can't assume all those arms comes back and pitch at a high level like they did this past season. Would definitely look at retaining Green or Hicks, but regardless I think there is enough depth if anything does go wrong and they could always add at the trade deadline.

 

Focus should definitely be offense and adding two big bats. Hopefully if those bats fill LF and DH, won't take a huge hit on the defensive side of things.

 

I think there's a 0% chance that Manoah is "waiting in the wings" (which I assume means opening the year as depth in AAA or in the bullpen). If he isn't starting the year in our rotation, he's been traded.

[Terminator]

The Atkins apologists, once the premier attackers of BJMB, now find themselves under attack. Many posters are saying this.

[Laika]

The Atkins apologists, once the premier attackers of BJMB, now find themselves under attack. Many posters are saying this.

 

We are being tarred and feathered for defending the Atkins diet

[L54]

Funnier than defending Atkins is justifying Rogers hypothetical decision to keep him based on the balance sheet

[Terminator]

Funnier than defending Atkins is justifying Rogers hypothetical decision to keep him based on the balance sheet

 

^The attacks are flying. Halp.

[L54]

Mods please rename this thread to “Will Ed Rogers Fire Atkins?”

[tazsub3]

So, you want Atkins fired because of the state of the team and org. But if it was AA instead in his position with the exact same results, it would be unreasonable if people would want him fired as well? You think people who defend Atkins are doing so because of his stunning good looks, dripping swag, and charismatic interviews?

 

 

AA has a world series, took us on the deepest runs in decades, and now built the best team in baseball.

Atkins, cant win a playoff game, and has an ace dealing removed after 47 (as per wilko'scorrection hahahah 2 more ) pitches.

Pleasae discuss facts

Edited October 6, 2023 by tazsub3

[wilko]

AA has a world series, took us on the deepest runs in decades, and now built the best team in baseball.

Atkins, cant win a playoff game, and has an ace dealing removed after 45 pitches.

Pleasae discuss facts

 

47 pitches.