Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[John_Havok]

Jansen fanboys are some of the most unreasonable people in all of baseball. You just can’t reason with them.

 

There's so many reasons why trading him makes the most sense and all kinds of reasons why the return on him wouldnt be what they think it should be either.

[Terminator]

It's simply common sense man, why would the Jays trade Kirk or Moreno and take the risk of Jano walking in 2 yrs.

 

Ok I see your line of reasoning but the other two are just so damn cheap and the Jays aren’t exactly flush with cash anymore so I don’t see an extension happening.

[L54]

Any teams out there shopping front line starters with control?

 

No idea. I’m sure there would be plenty of guys willing to listen on those two though.

[Laika]

Any teams out there shopping front line starters with control?

 

I think the only rumours I have seen surround the Marlins and guys like Pablo Lopez

[glory]

Hard to say really IMO. If I could trade Jano for an SP with 2 years left and like 2-3 projected WAR I’d rather do that and keep Kirk.

 

Agreed. I'm just skeptical that sort of deal will be out there for Jansen. We saw something like that at the deadline with Montgomery/Bader, so I guess it's possible, but the amount of contending teams having an expendable ~3 WAR SP with at least 2 years of control doesn't seem like it will be a very long list. How much would the Jays have to add to Jansen to get Pablo Lopez?

[Jimcanuck]

Jays don't need a front line starter, in any event

 

Keep Tiedemann, move one of the 3 C for the best SP you can get, or failing that, the best CF you can get

[L54]

It pains me to say it but I think Jim is right

[Laika]

German Marquez - I want him but I can't even see what he Rockies could add to make their side worth Jansen.

 

Freddy Peralta for Jansen?

 

Pablo Lopez, everybody mentions him all the time.

[Jimcanuck]

It pains me to say it but I think Jim is right

 

Just accept me as a peer and the pain is gone

[Laika]

Do you guys think Jansen or Moreno is the more liquid asset?

 

Jansen isn't worth nearly as much so it should be easier to find a trade partner but with only 2 years of control the market is limited to contenders or wannabes with catching holes.

 

Moreno is worth A LOT but as an MLB ready prospect the potential market is much wider... competitive teams and rebuilding teams alike would want him.

 

It's not obvious which of the two would be easier to trade.

 

Or Kirk for that matter.

 

I really have no idea what Toronto will do. How exciting.

[Captain_Obvious]

Jansen fanboys are some of the most unreasonable people in all of baseball. You just can’t reason with them.

 

On the other hand, we have people as blind as the Blue Jays were last year when they batted Jansen 8th behind Tapia and played him part time. Yea.. let's trade the catcher who topped the team with a 140wRC+ despite a HBP broken hand for a league average outfielder that may or may not be better than Gurriel. Brilliant idea.

[Terminator]

On the other hand, we have people as blind as the Blue Jays were last year when they batted Jansen 8th behind Tapia and played him part time. Yea.. let's trade the catcher who topped the team with a 140wRC+ despite a HBP broken hand for a league average outfielder that may or may not be better than Gurriel. Brilliant idea.

 

I’d take a Tim Horton’s gift card for Jansen when we’ve got two young studs ready to replace him. Dude is made of glass and he’s got 2 years of control left.

[connorp]

Do you guys think Jansen or Moreno is the more liquid asset?

 

Jansen isn't worth nearly as much so it should be easier to find a trade partner but with only 2 years of control the market is limited to contenders or wannabes with catching holes.

 

Moreno is worth A LOT but as an MLB ready prospect the potential market is much wider... competitive teams and rebuilding teams alike would want him.

 

It's not obvious which of the two would be easier to trade.

 

Or Kirk for that matter.

 

I really have no idea what Toronto will do. How exciting.

 

Hopefully Moreno. He rose up to the top charts of the charts based on power surge that seems to be an outlier. He won’t drop back because he’s so toolsy for a C and there’s the chance he finds his power again. Let another team pay for that gamble. He doesn’t steal, doesn’t walk.. no doubt he’s a valuable piece as athletic C with elite bat to ball skills but nothing there where it’s going to be deep regret dealing him. Jays are just fine at C. Could use putting the surplus somewhere else. As mentioned, Moreno prob gets the most value

[Laika]

Hopefully Moreno. He rose up to the top charts of the charts based on power surge that seems to be an outlier. He won’t drop back because he’s so toolsy for a C and there’s the chance he finds his power again. Let another team pay for that gamble. He doesn’t steal, doesn’t walk.. no doubt he’s a valuable piece as athletic C with elite bat to ball skills but nothing there where it’s going to be deep regret dealing him. Jays are just fine at C. Could use putting the surplus somewhere else. As mentioned, Moreno prob gets the most value

 

The talent comp in a best case scenario would be JT Realmuto.

 

Realmuto did not turn into a star until his 3rd full season

 

I could see Moreno following a similar development timeline. That is, even if he ends up as the best catcher in baseball his best years might mostly come outside of his first 6 seasons of team control...

[John_Havok]

Hopefully Moreno. He rose up to the top charts of the charts based on power surge that seems to be an outlier. He won’t drop back because he’s so toolsy for a C and there’s the chance he finds his power again. Let another team pay for that gamble. He doesn’t steal, doesn’t walk.. no doubt he’s a valuable piece as athletic C with elite bat to ball skills but nothing there where it’s going to be deep regret dealing him. Jays are just fine at C. Could use putting the surplus somewhere else. As mentioned, Moreno prob gets the most value

 

Its really hard to say, there are probably some teams that would value Jansen more and some would value Moreno more. Much of that would depend on where each team is in their cycle of building, contending, re-building etc as well as their hypothetical payroll contraints.

[connorp]

The talent comp in a best case scenario would be JT Realmuto.

 

Realmuto did not turn into a star until his 3rd full season

 

I could see Moreno following a similar development timeline. That is, even if he ends up as the best catcher in baseball his best years might mostly come outside of his first 6 seasons of team control...

 

Could. Might. Sure if Moreno can start hitting 20 hrs a year in a few years it would sting. I wouldn’t call it probable and those are the the decisions a GM needs to make. Some teams may see it, others not. I’ll bullish enough on Kirk where it negates the impact even if Moreno did fully blossom. So if they can get top value from some deal for Moreno, I think it’d be great

[Captain_Obvious]

I’d take a Tim Horton’s gift card for Jansen when we’ve got two young studs ready to replace him. Dude is made of glass and he’s got 2 years of control left.

 

So you want to dump a high-value asset for nothing because you have replacements? Thanks for proving my point that your trade idea originates from a s***** mindset that seeks do the trade for the sake of making a trade.

[connorp]

Its really hard to say, there are probably some teams that would value Jansen more and some would value Moreno more. Much of that would depend on where each team is in their cycle of building, contending, re-building etc as well as their hypothetical payroll contraints.

 

Yeah of course, some teams are obviously going to have different opinions of the players as well.. but just vacuum value.

[Captain_Obvious]

Its really hard to say, there are probably some teams that would value Jansen more and some would value Moreno more. Much of that would depend on where each team is in their cycle of building, contending, re-building etc as well as their hypothetical payroll contraints.

 

I highly doubt any team values Jansen more than Moreno. It is about what they're willing to pay. If I were another team, I would target Jansen hoping the Blue Jays FO is illogical like Terminator and would give him up for basically nothing. The ROI could be much higher if they target Jansen.

[connorp]

So you want to dump a high-value asset for nothing because you have replacements? Thanks for proving my point that your trade idea originates from a s***** mindset that seeks do the trade for the sake of making a trade.

 

He’s exaggerating the point to state his case. It’s a roster crunch at some point. You’d like to say, we’ll let’s sit on it until we get an 1A offer… but if you’re carrying 3 C with value, while having other clear areas of need, is that the best roster management…

[Brownie19]

Hopefully Moreno. He rose up to the top charts of the charts based on power surge that seems to be an outlier. He won’t drop back because he’s so toolsy for a C and there’s the chance he finds his power again. Let another team pay for that gamble. He doesn’t steal, doesn’t walk.. no doubt he’s a valuable piece as athletic C with elite bat to ball skills but nothing there where it’s going to be deep regret dealing him. Jays are just fine at C. Could use putting the surplus somewhere else. As mentioned, Moreno prob gets the most value

 

The talent comp in a best case scenario would be JT Realmuto.

 

Realmuto did not turn into a star until his 3rd full season

 

I could see Moreno following a similar development timeline. That is, even if he ends up as the best catcher in baseball his best years might mostly come outside of his first 6 seasons of team control...

 

I generally agree with this. I think Moreno will provide great value, but he also comes with a lot of risk. Look how long it took Jansen to blossom into a ML hitter. We're ready to win now. We can't have Moreno starting 120 games, giving us below average production while we wait for him to figure it out.

 

It comes with risk, but if we could land say Alek Thomas and one of Arizona's young power SP prospects, then I think that's something we seriously need to consider.

[Jimcanuck]

Chances are, right now Kirk is stuffing his face. While I trust Shatkins to make the best available deal, I hope he is the one traded.

 

On the other hand, let's not forget Moreno can play multiple positions. He holds immense value to a contending team such as the Jays.

[L54]

Just accept me as a peer and the pain is gone

 

Just in jest Jim

[Jimcanuck]

Just in jest Jim

 

Same. I love you.

[Terminator]

Do you guys think Jansen or Moreno is the more liquid asset?

 

Jansen isn't worth nearly as much so it should be easier to find a trade partner but with only 2 years of control the market is limited to contenders or wannabes with catching holes.

 

Moreno is worth A LOT but as an MLB ready prospect the potential market is much wider... competitive teams and rebuilding teams alike would want him.

 

It's not obvious which of the two would be easier to trade.

 

Or Kirk for that matter.

 

I really have no idea what Toronto will do. How exciting.

 

I think Jansen is easily more liquid. It's just a smaller trade that is easier to pull off.

 

Trading Moreno could happen, but it doesn't seem like guys like him get moved for similar talent all that often. Instead, they get packaged up with other prospects and traded for stars, usually at the deadline. I just don't see Atkins doing the latter right now.

[G-Snarls]

Its really hard to say, there are probably some teams that would value Jansen more and some would value Moreno more. Much of that would depend on where each team is in their cycle of building, contending, re-building etc as well as their hypothetical payroll contraints.

 

What is Jansen expected to get in arbitration?

[L54]

Keibert Ruiz looked like a freaking stud. Mashed in AAA last year. Now we looks like a .270 hitter with a slug under .400

 

Laika has a good point. Lots of times catcher prospects won’t hit their peak until after that first six years of control. Steep learning curve in the bigs with emphasis on game calling and defense.

 

I fully admit I have no idea who to trade or really have a concrete opinion. I just hope I like the return.

[L54]

Same. I love you.

 

Love you too son

[John_Havok]

What is Jansen expected to get in arbitration?

 

3.7 for 2023

[wamco]

Any truth to the rumor ryu contract was insured?