Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Virgil_Hiltz]

I honestly think it's the marketing Laika. My bisexual great aunt who lives in the Yellow Knife loves basketball, but just can't relate because she doesn't really see a lot woods people in the Raptors ads. Believe it or not she has a hoop, she coach's a local team of kids, and she wanted to marry Larry Bird (keep in mind she goes both ways). She was so excited in '95 when the Raptors came. However over the years though she has been turned off by the Gangster marketing. They don't relate to Gangsters in Yellowknife. She also hates the Red Sox and told me they were the worst organization in baseball and that they were gangster culture too, just like the Raptors. I didn't believe her, but then it turned out David Ortiz got shot because he was hanging with too many Gangsters. Wow.

 

Was your great aunt there n the 80s? If so, I probably knew her

[glory]

Charlie managing someone with 14 years of MLB experience would be terrifying. Stay away from Gardner.

[Spanky99]

 

Hazel Mae

@thehazelmae

 

Good news on the visa front for Yimi Garcia and Gabriel Moreno. They could join the club as early as Thursday or Friday this week. #BlueJays

 

Yay!

[Spanky99]

amazing

 

That was pretty damn hilarious. HOF post.

[Spanky99]

I still have my 1990s warmup jacket. It's pretty dope!

 

Haha... I remember that, and your MILB hat that you lost.

[Jays24]

That's got to be at least somewhat by design. The Raptors really went for the local audience with the marketing about 'the six' and locally themed jerseys. They also really focused on fans of rap and hip hop with the Drake association. That was never going to attract fans outside of major urban centres. They tried to branch out with 'We the North' but it ended up being a point of humour in the rest of the nation since it comes from the Southernmost part of Canada.

 

The Jays have always leaned into the 'Canada's team' angle and I think it's really paying off. We hate stuff like the maple leaf hats and whatnot, but I see them everywhere. Here in Northern Ontario I see at least 20 items of Jays apparel for each Raptors one and it's similar in the prairies. The sold out Mariners games are a stunning example of the team"s national appeal. You hardly see anything from the team about the city of Toronto itself. It's less relevant to the team's success than any other pro sports team I can think of.

 

I wouldn't say it's by design but it just speaks to the demograph of the rest of Canada vs the GTA. Not trying to turn this into a race thing but colored folks are more interested in basketball while baseball is primarily a white folk game with some exceptions of course.

 

It is what it is. The Raptors during their championship run were drawing bandwagoners all across the country and pulling in ratings that no one thought was possible for basketball in this country. The Jays would clearly do the same but it would be more expected.

[BCZ]

Will Grisuck be batting 9th... ???

[Deadpool]

Haha... I remember that, and your MILB hat that you lost.

 

Oh Lansing Lugnuts hat, you are sorely missed.

[Spanky99]

Oh Lansing Lugnuts hat, you are sorely missed.

 

That was it, cool hat.

[BCZ]

Will Grisuck be batting 9th... ???

 

???

[Spanky99]

???

 

When he's playing, 7-9. What are you expecting?

[Grant77]

Here's a rumour I haven't heard that is on MLBTR today. Apparently we discussed trading Teoscar Hernandez to the Marlins before the lockout. That could have been interesting.

[Laika]

Probably for an arm. Pablo Lopez?

[Grant77]

Probably for an arm. Pablo Lopez?

 

That would make some sense. Then you go out and get a guy like Schwarber instead of Kikuchi.

[Ehjays]

Here's a rumour I haven't heard that is on MLBTR today. Apparently we discussed trading Teoscar Hernandez to the Marlins before the lockout. That could have been interesting.

 

Yes they were talking about aquiring Anderson AND a pitcher

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article259612989.html

 

A trade pursuit of Toronto outfielder Teoscar Hernandez.

 

The Marlins and Blue Jays had serious discussions in November, and if this deal had happened, Miami likely wouldn’t have signed Soler. Hernandez, 29, produced his best offensive season last year, hitting .296 with 32 homers and 116 RBI in 143 games. He posted a 3.9 wins over replacement.

Though he has played primarily in left and right field, Hernandez has played center field in 110 games, including extensive work there in 2019, and probably is better equipped defensively for center than any of the Marlins starting outfielders. Toronto was seeking an upgrade at third base, and Brian Anderson likely would have been part of any deal. The Marlins also assuredly would have been required to send Toronto at least one starting pitcher.

 

The Blue Jays have been pursuing a left-handed bat all offseason, and had they signed Kyle Schwarber or Michael Conforto in free agency, they might have dealt Hernandez. After the lockout, Toronto instead acquired Gold Glove third baseman Matt Chapman from the Athletics, and signed starting pitcher Yusei Kikuchi to a three-year deal.

The Marlins and Jays haven’t revived trade talks since the lockout ended. So the Marlins will stick with what they have for now.

If an opportunity to trade for a top center fielder arises - or if outfield defensive shortcomings begin to cost them games in April and May - the Marlins could vigorously renew their search to replace Marte, who was dealt to Oakland last summer for Jesus Luzardo, then signed a four-year, $78 million deal with the Mets and is now sidelined with an oblique injury.

[Jimcanuck]

Yes they were talking about aquiring Anderson AND a pitcher

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article259612989.html

 

A trade pursuit of Toronto outfielder Teoscar Hernandez.

 

The Marlins and Blue Jays had serious discussions in November, and if this deal had happened, Miami likely wouldn’t have signed Soler. Hernandez, 29, produced his best offensive season last year, hitting .296 with 32 homers and 116 RBI in 143 games. He posted a 3.9 wins over replacement.

Though he has played primarily in left and right field, Hernandez has played center field in 110 games, including extensive work there in 2019, and probably is better equipped defensively for center than any of the Marlins starting outfielders. Toronto was seeking an upgrade at third base, and Brian Anderson likely would have been part of any deal. The Marlins also assuredly would have been required to send Toronto at least one starting pitcher.

 

The Blue Jays have been pursuing a left-handed bat all offseason, and had they signed Kyle Schwarber or Michael Conforto in free agency, they might have dealt Hernandez. After the lockout, Toronto instead acquired Gold Glove third baseman Matt Chapman from the Athletics, and signed starting pitcher Yusei Kikuchi to a three-year deal.

The Marlins and Jays haven’t revived trade talks since the lockout ended. So the Marlins will stick with what they have for now.

If an opportunity to trade for a top center fielder arises - or if outfield defensive shortcomings begin to cost them games in April and May - the Marlins could vigorously renew their search to replace Marte, who was dealt to Oakland last summer for Jesus Luzardo, then signed a four-year, $78 million deal with the Mets and is now sidelined with an oblique injury.

 

Check your PMs

[Brownie19]

Yes they were talking about aquiring Anderson AND a pitcher

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article259612989.html

 

A trade pursuit of Toronto outfielder Teoscar Hernandez.

 

The Marlins and Blue Jays had serious discussions in November, and if this deal had happened, Miami likely wouldn’t have signed Soler. Hernandez, 29, produced his best offensive season last year, hitting .296 with 32 homers and 116 RBI in 143 games. He posted a 3.9 wins over replacement.

Though he has played primarily in left and right field, Hernandez has played center field in 110 games, including extensive work there in 2019, and probably is better equipped defensively for center than any of the Marlins starting outfielders. Toronto was seeking an upgrade at third base, and Brian Anderson likely would have been part of any deal. The Marlins also assuredly would have been required to send Toronto at least one starting pitcher.

 

The Blue Jays have been pursuing a left-handed bat all offseason, and had they signed Kyle Schwarber or Michael Conforto in free agency, they might have dealt Hernandez. After the lockout, Toronto instead acquired Gold Glove third baseman Matt Chapman from the Athletics, and signed starting pitcher Yusei Kikuchi to a three-year deal.

The Marlins and Jays haven’t revived trade talks since the lockout ended. So the Marlins will stick with what they have for now.

If an opportunity to trade for a top center fielder arises - or if outfield defensive shortcomings begin to cost them games in April and May - the Marlins could vigorously renew their search to replace Marte, who was dealt to Oakland last summer for Jesus Luzardo, then signed a four-year, $78 million deal with the Mets and is now sidelined with an oblique injury.

 

Yikes.

[Jays24]

That Teo rumour makes me so sad. Can't believe we'd be trying to trade him. Hopefully that doesn't mean his extension demands are unreasonable.

[RobinThicc]

Cant extend everybody.

 

Some guys will eventually move on. Hernandez could very well be one of them.

[Stangstag]

Cant extend everybody.

 

Some guys will eventually move on. Hernandez could very well be one of them.

 

This. Love him and his attitude, but corner OF bats are probably easiest to replace.

[L54]

Glad we ended up with Chapman instead of Anderson

[Ray]

The Nick Castellanos contract is probably the ceiling for Teo unless he makes more offensive and defensive strides this season. If you were to offer him an extension today, 5 years $80M sounds about reasonable factoring in that he’s still under control for two more seasons and not a free agent. Obviously you prioritize Vlad and Bo. Hell, you could make a good case that Lourdes should be extended before Teo too because he’s younger and there could still be more upside there.

 

My theory from the start has been that Shapiro is waiting for a deep playoff run to happen before doling out extensions. If we make it to the ALCS, it’s much easier to campaign to ownership to invest more money and keep the group together. Plus, the added playoff revenue helps too.

[TwistedLogic]

So a rare small bit of negative news from this offseason, the Jays reached agreements with 16 of their 18 league min guys on the 40-man roster.

 

The two guys they didn't were Bichette and Manoah, who deliberately took pay cuts to indicate that they weren't happy with the team's offers.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/contracts-renewed-for-bichette-manoah-after-failing-to-reach-agreement-with-blue-jays/

 

The renewals for Bichette and Manoah are notable because it means they declined salaries determined by the Blue Jays’ scale for pre-arbitration players, often a way to show displeasure with the team figure. As per terms of the uniform player’s contract, the renewals are set at the midway point between the team’s number and the major-league minimum.

 

That puts Bichette at $723,550 after rejecting a salary of $747,100, and Manoah at $706,200 after turning down $712,400, according to industry sources.

 

Probably not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but also not exactly ideal. Don't think it would have killed the team to offer Manoah something like 750K and Bo something like 800K.

[Brownie19]

So a rare small bit of negative news from this offseason, the Jays reached agreements with 16 of their 18 league min guys on the 40-man roster.

 

The two guys they didn't were Bichette and Manoah, who deliberately took pay cuts to indicate that they weren't happy with the team's offers.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/contracts-renewed-for-bichette-manoah-after-failing-to-reach-agreement-with-blue-jays/

 

 

 

Probably not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but also not exactly ideal. Don't think it would have killed the team to offer Manoah something like 750K and Bo something like 800K.

 

Couldn't that just piss others off though? If you have a set of rules - I think you stick with it. I mean Kirk is projected to be just as valuable (if not more valuable) than Manoah is this year. Why doesn't he get more $$$? I could see Bo, who's been a stud for years now, but Manoah's thrown 111 innings so his s*** don't stink? He seems like such a loser to me.

[Ray]

I think a little too much is being made of this tbh.

 

I view it as Bo and Manoah voicing displeasure at the pre-arbitration system, not necessarily the team. Going through arbitration will paint a much better picture of the player-team dynamic. Generally speaking, this regime has maintained really good relationships with their players. I think they’ve only gone to arbitration hearings twice: Stroman (lol) and Tepera. And Shapiro almost never went arbitration when he was a GM in Cleveland even though they notoriously penny pinched because he realizes there’s value in not dragging the players name through the mud to save a relatively small sum of money.

[Stangstag]

Couldn't that just piss others off though? If you have a set of rules - I think you stick with it. I mean Kirk is projected to be just as valuable (if not more valuable) than Manoah is this year. Why doesn't he get more $$$? I could see Bo, who's been a stud for years now, but Manoah's thrown 111 innings so his s*** don't stink? He seems like such a loser to me.

 

He very well might be Stroman 2.0

 

Just as annoying on social media, making up his own hashtags…

 

MANOAHDRIVEN

[Krylian]

Aww s***. Is Manoah being a DBag on social media?

[JFD]

I don't get Stroman douche canoe vibes from Manoah at all but he is very high energy like him

[Jimcanuck]

Aww s***. Is Manoah being a DBag on social media?

 

Aren't we all?

[Jonn]

I still think Randal Grichuk would look great in a Rockies uniform. They were really looking to spending some money. If I was Atkins I would check in for sure.

 

Well played Atkins!