Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Spanky99]

Impression that gives me is that they don't want McCann... It's a ploy to get the Realmuto camp to agree to less

 

This. Someone mentioned this earlier in the offseason and I agreed, maybe it was you.

 

It never made sense.

[Brownie19]

Trade Gurriel + Orelvis Martinez + Pardinho + Riley Adams for Lindor, fill in the OF gap with Springer, Brantley, Jackie Bradley Jr., or Joc Pederson

 

There's no way you're including Orelvis Martinez there.

[Spanky99]

There's no way you're including Orelvis Martinez there.

 

For an extension window and sign of Lindor, you bet your ass he's in there, you can swap out Pardinho likely, but he's going to be expensive under those terms. Makes me a bit nervous of the haul the Indians receive.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Spanky99

[Ray]

There's no way you're including Orelvis Martinez there.

 

It'd be contingent on an extension, which, I don't really believe this front office would trade for Lindor in the first place unless there's an extension lined up or a near certainty that he'll sign one when he gets here. Lindor being locked up for the next 8-10 years is worth giving up a Rk ball prospect who is 2-3 years away.

 

If we can swap Orelvis Martinez out for Miguel Hiraldo and somehow keep Gabriel Moreno/Orelvis Martinez out of that package, that's great. But even the Dodgers had to give up a Top 100 guy in Jeter Downs on top of Alex Verdugo to get the deal done. Maybe you don't need Pardinho in there, but I'd be fine giving up one of Orelvis Martinez/Gabriel Moreno if we can get an extension done imo. Obviously you try to keep the price as low as possible though, and if we really are the only team willing to offer a competitive package (which may be true), you only give up a little more than the next best offer. It may be that Cleveland has to take Gurriel + Riley Adams because that's the best offer on the table, but I'm operating under the assumption that other teams are in on him.

[Spanky99]

It'd be contingent on an extension, which, I don't really believe this front office would trade for Lindor in the first place unless there's an extension lined up or a near certainty that he'll sign one when he gets here. Lindor being locked up for the next 8-10 years is worth giving up a Rk ball prospect who is 2-3 years away.

 

If we can swap Orelvis Martinez out for Miguel Hiraldo and somehow keep Gabriel Moreno/Orelvis Martinez out of that package, that's great. But even the Dodgers had to give up a Top 100 guy in Jeter Downs on top of Alex Verdugo to get the deal done. Maybe you don't need Pardinho in there, but I'd be fine giving up one of Orelvis Martinez/Gabriel Moreno if we can get an extension done imo. Obviously you try to keep the price as low as possible though, and if we really are the only team willing to offer a competitive package (which may be true), you only give up a little more than the next best offer. It may be that Cleveland has to take Gurriel + Riley Adams because that's the best offer on the table, but I'm operating under the assumption that other teams are in on him.

 

And the Dodgers didn't have an extension window in that trade, if you recall. No way we only give up LGJ and Adams for Lindor, lol.

[P2F]

jerb... you're the hero BJMB needs.

 

Thanks for all the info/rumours.

 

He really does a great jerb keeping us all updated.

[Spanky99]

He really does a great jerb keeping us all updated.

 

Bah Dum Tsh... lol

[Spanky99]

Decent piece by Shi...

 

Blue Jays must spend with eye on long term as club hunts for impact

 

TORONTO — Since we live in instant-gratification times, let’s start with Mark Shapiro essentially confirming that the Toronto Blue Jays are hunting all the big names they’ve been linked to this winter, while also roughly sketching out the backup plan if that falls through.

 

“It’s been interesting to see our level of interest and our engagement be such dramatic news, but I think maybe that’s a reflection and a reinforcement to our fans that we’re taking the next step,” the team president and CEO said during a Zoom call with media Friday.

 

“(Hyun-Jin) Ryu is certainly one part of that and then for us to be engaged at the top end of every area of the market this year is encouraging. The only reaction I’ve got is that to place all of the emphasis on a successful off-season on a few names is probably not the right way to focus on it. We need to get better. I’m a hundred per cent confident we will get better. That could come in the form of four very good players, it can come in the form of two elite players. But we’re going to get better. And we have a lot of exciting conversations happening right now.”

 

Those conversations are ongoing, with a multitude of factors conspiring to slow the pace of action, the ongoing economic uncertainty across the sport created by COVID-19 and its impact on budget formulations front and centre in that regard.

 

The Blue Jays, while still unsure where they’ll be playing next year and how much revenue they’ll actually be able generate, aren’t in that camp. Shapiro said deliberations with team owner Rogers Communications Inc. (which also owns this website) have left the club with “a firm understanding of the support we need to execute our off-season plan.”

 

You can be certain that Shapiro, GM Ross Atkins and the rest of the front office wouldn’t be wasting time courting George Springer, D.J. LeMahieu, J.T. Realmuto and countless others if they didn’t have the authority to ante up. They’ve discussed four- and five-year deals with free agents, Shapiro “representing ownership at the table,” he said.

 

There’s little point in rehashing the same granular points made in recent weeks until dudes actually start signing, so let’s zoom out now and consider what substantial financial commitments really means for the franchise.

 

Right now, the Blue Jays are enjoying the initial grace period for rebuilding clubs when players are both inexpensive and under contractual control for an extended period, although that is beginning to end.

 

Of their core players, only Teoscar Hernandez is arbitration-eligible this winter, the Silver Slugger winner entering the salary-accelerator for the first time. But after 2021, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Danny Jansen, Ryan Borucki, Rowdy Tellez and Trent Thornton all project to qualify.

 

Cavan Biggio might also reach the threshold as what’s known as a Super 2 player – the top 22 per cent of players in terms of service time between two and three years. If he doesn’t, he’ll be first-time eligible after 2022, along with Bo Bichette, Nate Pearson and Jordan Romano.

 

All those players are currently earning roughly $600,000, which helps make the roster spectacularly cost-effective. But once they get into arbitration, their salaries jump into seven figures and rise sharply, which means whatever financial commitments the Blue Jays put on the books this winter will impact longer-term decisions on those players down the road.

 

The dilemma currently faced by the Philadelphia Phillies offers an important cautionary tale.

 

A few years ago they were young and dynamic, and bolstered themselves with big-ticket adds like Bryce Harper, Zack Wheeler, Realmuto, Andrew McCutchen, Jake Arrieta and David Robertson. It hasn’t worked, their young base of talent was insufficient and now they have a top-heavy roster that’s so flawed they can’t easily outspend their deficiencies.

 

So, what’s important as the Blue Jays begin jumping their payroll isn’t only how much they can spend this year, but also what they can spend in 2022 and beyond when they have to both augment the team as needed and accommodate internal salary growth. (A farm system that continues to contribute young cost-effective talent is also vital.)

 

“Listen, if you’re not thinking about the impact of the moves within an off-season and the organic nature of the progress of your own young players, then you’re not responsibly running a major league franchise,” said Shapiro. “The way that we work with our ownership, that’s more our responsibility to manage that, however there already is an understanding of what our revenues were last year, what they’re likely to be next year, or at least the ranges of that. We’ve also seen incredible examples of what winning can do in this marketplace in ’15 and ’16 in a very recent context.

 

“There’s not any set number for us (for a 2022 payroll). There’s an understanding once we move forward, and that’s communicated, that we’re committing to a certain amount moving forward. The expectation is that we’re winning. And if we’re winning, we continue to grow that amount, but the revenues grow as well. Everyone’s been good about understanding that we’re we’re in abnormal, unusual times, that we’re not functioning in a normal environment yet, let’s ensure that we don’t deviate from the progress we’ve made and keep the plan moving forward.”

 

That vision is the ideal scenario, one that would prevent them from being like the Phillies, who want to re-sign Realmuto but aren’t sure if they can manage the commitment.

 

A worse-case scenario for the Blue Jays would be the back-end of contracts to, say, a Springer or Realmuto tie the front office’s hands and limit the opportunities to leverage the peak seasons of Guerrero, Bichette and Biggio before they become eligible for free agency.

 

The Chicago Cubs, for example, haven’t been able to maximize their competitive window since winning the 2016 World Series, hampered by underperforming big contracts. Now, they may be unable to leverage what could be their final season with pending free agents Javier Baez, Anthony Rizzo and Kris Bryant.

 

All of which underlines why the Blue Jays must, first and foremost, invest wisely because it’s difficult to undo substantial free-agent contracts, but also be assured that they’ll be able to maintain and escalate their financial support in the years to come.

 

And such an assurance — when the Blue Jays can’t be sure they’ll be able to sell any tickets or, should the team again qualify for the post-season, fully realize the benefits of another playoff run — is particularly essential.

 

“This is one example where we’re fortunate to be part of such a strong and deep ownership,” said Shapiro. “Everything you’re talking about is short term and nothing we’re doing is short-term focused. Everything we’re doing is long-term focus. We have always said the intent is to build a sustainable championship team. The points you make would be extremely valid if we were expecting to win for one year and 2021 was the only year we expect to win. We expect this to be the next step in a ramp up that allows us to be a championship-calibre club for multiple years.

 

“So, yes, there is a very good chance that we will not realize full revenue next year, some chance that we would not get a post-season benefit, but I’d like to think that’s unlikely,” he added. “I think by then we’ll be in an environment where we can realize the benefit of post-season. But again, the intent, the plan, the direction is long term. And I don’t think as we move into 2022 we’re going to be having these same conversations.”

 

If that turns out to be the case, the Blue Jays will instead be having more conversations like those of this winter, of chasing big names and plugging roster holes without the threat of financial landmines ahead.

[Jimcanuck]

Decent piece by Shi...

 

Blue Jays must spend with eye on long term as club hunts for impact

 

He must have read what L54 posted. If the Tampa Bay Rays can do a sustained run with a $70M or whatever player salary commitment, the Jays can certainly do the same with a $140M or whatever salary commitment. Just need the guts to regularly trade core players before they get too expensive for prospects, even when the team is a top contender.

[Jays24]

He must have read what L54 posted. If the Tampa Bay Rays can do a sustained run with a $70M or whatever player salary commitment, the Jays can certainly do the same with a $140M or whatever salary commitment. Just need the guts to regularly trade core players before they get too expensive for prospects, even when the team is a top contender.

 

But the difference between us and Tampa should be that we're able to retain our top talent and don't need to keep recycling. Using that motto has won a lot of games for Oakland and Tampa but failed more time than not on the big stage.

[Jimcanuck]

But the difference between us and Tampa should be that we're able to retain our top talent and don't need to keep recycling. Using that motto has won a lot of games for Oakland and Tampa but failed more time than not on the big stage.

 

I look at it from the other side of the coin. The difference between us and Tampa is we can afford big ticket free agents, as long as, like Tampa, some of our younger players are moved before they become too expensive.

[Brownie19]

It'd be contingent on an extension, which, I don't really believe this front office would trade for Lindor in the first place unless there's an extension lined up or a near certainty that he'll sign one when he gets here. Lindor being locked up for the next 8-10 years is worth giving up a Rk ball prospect who is 2-3 years away.

 

If we can swap Orelvis Martinez out for Miguel Hiraldo and somehow keep Gabriel Moreno/Orelvis Martinez out of that package, that's great. But even the Dodgers had to give up a Top 100 guy in Jeter Downs on top of Alex Verdugo to get the deal done. Maybe you don't need Pardinho in there, but I'd be fine giving up one of Orelvis Martinez/Gabriel Moreno if we can get an extension done imo. Obviously you try to keep the price as low as possible though, and if we really are the only team willing to offer a competitive package (which may be true), you only give up a little more than the next best offer. It may be that Cleveland has to take Gurriel + Riley Adams because that's the best offer on the table, but I'm operating under the assumption that other teams are in on him.

 

If I'm the Jays - I'm finding a way to get it done without Orelvis included. Include Moreno - catchers bust a lot.

[Deadpool]

If I'm the Jays - I'm finding a way to get it done without Orelvis included. Include Moreno - catchers bust a lot.

 

Honestly, if there's a significant piece moving along with LGJ, I'm kinda out. Indians have no leverage here, so there's no reason the Jays have to send anyone we'd care about about along with Lourdes to get a deal done... Even if there is a deal to negotiate an extension, all the Indians are giving up is 1 year of a player they will absolutely not have after next season. Any "negotiation window" shouldn't increase what Cleveland gets.

[G-Snarls]

Honestly, if there's a significant piece moving along with LGJ, I'm kinda out. Indians have no leverage here, so there's no reason the Jays have to send anyone we'd care about about along with Lourdes to get a deal done... Even if there is a deal to negotiate an extension, all the Indians are giving up is 1 year of a player they will absolutely not have after next season. Any "negotiation window" shouldn't increase what Cleveland gets.

 

They prob should have traded him last year of course

 

Tampa does this better than anyone

[Spanky99]

Honestly, if there's a significant piece moving along with LGJ, I'm kinda out. Indians have no leverage here, so there's no reason the Jays have to send anyone we'd care about about along with Lourdes to get a deal done... Even if there is a deal to negotiate an extension, all the Indians are giving up is 1 year of a player they will absolutely not have after next season. Any "negotiation window" shouldn't increase what Cleveland gets.

 

It never works like that though, like ever. Bud!

[jerb]

[Deadpool]

It never works like that though, like ever. Bud!

 

Jays can really easily walk away from Lindor, and then Cleveland gets nothing (well, a draft pick). There aren't a lot of suitors beating down their door.

[Spanky99]

Jays can really easily walk away from Lindor, and then Cleveland gets nothing (well, a draft pick). There aren't a lot of suitors beating down their door.

 

We'll see... but I beg to differ on the latter. Dude's a star up the middle.

[dineke]

Giving up assets just for the privilege of paying Lindor 250-300 million doesn't excite me too much. So much of his value is defense too so how will he age? He's not an elite hitter like Mookie Betts.

[THANOS]

Giving up assets just for the privilege of paying Lindor 250-300 million doesn't excite me too much. So much of his value is defense too so how will he age? He's not an elite hitter like Mookie Betts.

 

I agree. The longer we wait, the more I'm swayed to thinking if it costs more than LGJ + Hiraldo, then "see ya later, enjoy losing money next season Cleveland.."

[wamco]

Giving up assets just for the privilege of paying Lindor 250-300 million doesn't excite me too much. So much of his value is defense too so how will he age? He's not an elite hitter like Mookie Betts.

 

I agree. I’m fine with bo at ss. Improve elsewhere

[glory]

What will be interesting is that I believe Ha-Seong Kim's posting period ends on January 1. So I guess we'll know in a little over 2 weeks whether that's happening or not. If it doesn't happen, and DJ is back with the Yankees, then the Jays will need an IF from somewhere, and rumors might get out of control by then if Lindor is still with CLE.

[Funky]

I love the whole Lindor being a BlueJay. He is exactly the type of player we need. Still in prime years, plays GG defense and can hit. Like others it all depends on cost and ability to extend. We have Bo in that spot, who is still a pup and should keep getting better, so to me I am not trading for Lindor unless a very fair deal falls Into my lap even if he is the exact type of player this team needs. Just wrong position.

 

I personally hope we take a chance on Kim. It’s an old cliche and it’s not my money but at the same time you get a 25 year old kid with defensive versatility and the projected ability to take for money alone.

 

Another it’s just money guy is Realmuto. He is just like Lindor. Stellar defense, great but not elite offense, in prime, but he comes virtually free. Again we have depth at catching but unfortunately Jansen hasn’t progressed like Bichette. I still think there is major potential in the guy and he is only 26 so still in the right side of the growth pendulum. I think there is more value in signing a guy like Realmuto than landing Lindor if we are going to have to lose a guy like Gurriel. There is a reason everyone wants him. He is cost controlled, young, and still has upside.

 

Springer. - love this guy. The veteran leader we need, a top of the order bat and a true CF. The guy doesn’t look like he is slowing down and fills a massive hole. If you land a guy like this than I maybe agree that Gurriel can be placed in a package for Lindor. Saying that I think Springer ends up with the Mets.

 

 

Bauer - a bit of a head case, a bit of a dick. But if he continues to throw the way he has I can live with the shenanigans. Fills our greatest need. Have not heard many rumors on him lately but a 1-2 punch of Bauer- Ryu immediately gives us the ability to win any given playoff series if those two are pitching to their ability’s.

 

The better defensive players we add, the better our pitchers will be. We need to supplement guys like Teoscar and Vlad with Elite gloves to take away the shot Defence those boys provide. This free agency period provides the front office a good start with Realmuto and Springer as targets to sign, Lindor and possibly a guy like Arenado to trade for and punch out pitchers like Bauer available.

 

I just hope that the agents aren’t using the Blue Jays as a scapegoat team to drive all the prices up for other teams to sign all these free agents. We need to land at least two of the players mentioned above to continue our growth

[Bturn2210]

What will be interesting is that I believe Ha-Seong Kim's posting period ends on January 1. So I guess we'll know in a little over 2 weeks whether that's happening or not. If it doesn't happen, and DJ is back with the Yankees, then the Jays will need an IF from somewhere, and rumors might get out of control by then if Lindor is still with CLE.

 

Oh yea. You'd think if Jays miss out on Lemahieu, then they will surely pivot to Kim or Lindor. Lemahieu might not even sign by January 1st at this rate either, so Jays will have to decide what direction they want to go in for an infielder soon enough.

[Jays24]

Oh yea. You'd think if Jays miss out on Lemahieu, then they will surely pivot to Kim or Lindor. Lemahieu might not even sign by January 1st at this rate either, so Jays will have to decide what direction they want to go in for an infielder soon enough.

 

Do we think its possible for us to get DJL and Lindor this off-season if we strike out on Springer?

 

It would probably mean Biggio to the OF and another season of Grichuk at CF (YUCK).

[Grant77]

Do we think its possible for us to get DJL and Lindor this off-season if we strike out on Springer?

 

It would probably mean Biggio to the OF and another season of Grichuk at CF (YUCK).

 

I'm not quite sure why we would do both, but the opportunity is certainly there for us to get either player.

[Jays24]

I'm not quite sure why we would do both, but the opportunity is certainly there for us to get either player.

 

I think it's extremely unlikely we would say no to Lindor just because DJL said yes. I think the type of package changes based on who we sign in free agency. Its at a point where I feel its a forgone conclusion Lindor's coming here lol.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Jays24

[burlingtonbandit]

Yeah given you'd also be paying $20M for Lindor this season in addition to giving up assets it really doesn't seem like a good idea to trade for him unless the acquisition cost really drops. Justin Turner would be like a 2 win downgrade and you wouldn't have to give up any players to get him.

[Grant77]

I think it's extremely unlikely we would say no to Lindor just because DJL said yes. I think the type of package changes based on who we sign in free agency. Its at a point where I feel its a forgone conclusion hes coming here lol.

 

I think that's exactly what would happen, but your opinion is valid so I won't argue it too much.

[Key22]

Recruit Trevor Bauer -