Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Jays24]

Right, does that seem like it's happening?

 

Nope lol.

 

Just don't get the logic if we sign a starter now then that means we can't get a better one, if one becomes available at the deadline. Teams will always need starting pitching so it's not like we can't trade any of our current starters to another team in the worst case scenario.

[Spanky99]

Nope lol.

 

Just don't get the logic if we sign a starter now then that means we can't get a better one, if one becomes available at the deadline. Teams will always need starting pitching so it's not like we can't trade any of our current starters to another team in the worst case scenario.

 

I never said that, and that like, rarely happens.

[Eat My Shatkins]

A lot of "ifs" with our starting rotation. Odorizzi would be the 2nd best pitcher on the staff so he'd definitely make a difference in a playoff setting, assuming we get there.

 

Odorizzi is an if too. He's not guaranteed to be a better option than Ray or Pearson. He's just a way more expensive 'if that wants multiple years of commitment.

[Jimcanuck]

Odorizzi is an if too. He's not guaranteed to be a better option than Ray or Pearson. He's just a way more expensive 'if that wants multiple years of commitment.

 

Agree on Odorizzi having risk. In fact I think the Jays might be better off getting the cheaper Porcello, stable innings eater. I've said it before, with the Jays offense a mediocre innings eater like Porcello can win 15.

[Spanky99]

Agree on Odorizzi having risk. In fact I think the Jays might be better off getting the cheaper Porcello, stable innings eater. I've said it before, with the Jays offense a mediocre innings eater like Porcello can win 15.

 

We could have that in piggybacks, man, think bigger at the deadline, plus Roark.

[Jimcanuck]

We could have that in piggybacks, man, think bigger at the deadline, plus Roark.

 

Getting Porcello, and sliding Roark into the bullpen as a swingman/6th starter to give Ryu extra time off from time to time, would not exclude a deadline acquisition.

[Spanky99]

Getting Porcello, and sliding Roark into the bullpen as a swingman/6th starter to give Ryu extra time off from time to time, would not exclude a deadline acquisition.

 

I never said that, I said they'll be fine for the deadline!

 

 

Dick!

[Ryu In My House]

What sort of monster deal would it take to trade for German Marquez? He would absolutely be a perfect trade target. The Rockies are horrible and rebuilding, or need to, and Marquez could be ours until 2025. He pitches way better away from Colorado, which also bodes well.

 

Assuming Pearson is damn near untouchable, would it be SWR, Manoah, and Groshans? Is that even enough?

[Jimcanuck]

What sort of monster deal would it take to trade for German Marquez? He would absolutely be a perfect trade target. The Rockies are horrible and rebuilding, or need to, and Marquez could be ours until 2025. He pitches way better away from Colorado, which also bodes well.

 

Assuming Pearson is damn near untouchable, would it be SWR, Manoah, and Groshans? Is that even enough?

 

More than enough. Jays should quickly say no.

[Eat My Shatkins]

That'd be 3 of our top 10 prospects?

 

Way too much.

[Krylian]

That'd be 3 of our top 10 prospects?

 

Way too much.

 

Might even be 3 of our top 7 depending on who you ask.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Might even be 3 of our top 7 depending on who you ask.

 

Exactly. Now, if the Rockies want to include Story with Marquez, that's the basis for a massive blockbuster. Jays would need to be pretty certain they could get Story extended though, and that one of him or Bo would be fine moving to 3rd.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Exactly. Now, if the Rockies want to include Story with Marquez, that's the basis for a massive blockbuster. Jays would need to be pretty certain they could get Story extended though, and that one of him or Bo would be fine moving to 3rd.

 

Giving up 3 top 10 prospects for two established MLB players sounds just about right.

[Terminator]

I think the Jays have been really smart to avoid signing any of these Tajiun Walker types to multi-year deals and instead spending that money on a guy like Semien.

 

Given the short year last year, it seems most of the SP in baseball are going to be on some sort of innings restriction. I think Atkins has been quoted as wanting to implement a pretty strict innings limit too, I think he said he envisions 130 innings from his starters or something like that? 120-130 innings of Taijuan Walker or Jake Odorizzi isn't going to make much of a difference compared to what we already have. A full slate of games from Semien WILL be quite the difference compared to our other options though.

[connorp]

I think the Jays have been really smart to avoid signing any of these Tajiun Walker types to multi-year deals and instead spending that money on a guy like Semien.

 

Given the short year last year, it seems most of the SP in baseball are going to be on some sort of innings restriction. I think Atkins has been quoted as wanting to implement a pretty strict innings limit too, I think he said he envisions 130 innings from his starters or something like that? 120-130 innings of Taijuan Walker or Jake Odorizzi isn't going to make much of a difference compared to what we already have. A full slate of games from Semien WILL be quite the difference compared to our other options though.

 

Not totally disagreeing but if it came playoff time and I could have either both Paxton and Odorizzi or Semein, I’d go with the pitchers considering everything.

 

Definitely some what ifs involved but Semein has his own what ifs as well

[Terminator]

Not totally disagreeing but if it came playoff time and I could have either both Paxton and Odorizzi or Semein, I’d go with the pitchers considering everything.

 

Definitely some what ifs involved but Semein has his own what ifs as well

 

I feel you but there is a significant chance neither of those guys would even make it that far into the season. They didn't last year. And if they did I still don't know how much they help over a bullpen game.

 

The pitchers who will be clear difference makers for a playoff scenario can be acquired at the trade deadline.

[Stangstag]

What sort of monster deal would it take to trade for German Marquez? He would absolutely be a perfect trade target. The Rockies are horrible and rebuilding, or need to, and Marquez could be ours until 2025. He pitches way better away from Colorado, which also bodes well.

 

Assuming Pearson is damn near untouchable, would it be SWR, Manoah, and Groshans? Is that even enough?

 

Looking at the trade package they got for Arenado, we might be able to pry Marquez for something like McGuire + Grichuk + Kay. That's some solid major league talent.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Looking at the trade package they got for Arenado, we might be able to pry Marquez for something like McGuire + Grichuk + Kay. That's some solid major league talent.

 

Yes....and they dont have to wait for the players to develop which is a bonus for them.

Mind you, we may need to toss in a more higher end catching prospect...Adams??

[Abomination]

Looking at the trade package they got for Arenado, we might be able to pry Marquez for something like McGuire + Grichuk + Kay. That's some solid major league talent.

 

Arenado's contract is very VERY different from Marquez.

[Orgfiller]

Looking at the trade package they got for Arenado, we might be able to pry Marquez for something like McGuire + Grichuk + Kay. That's some solid major league talent.

 

Marquez is on an extremely team-friendly deal that takes him through his age 29 season. Arenado is on a monster contract which the Cardinals will own through his ages 30-36 seasons. They're worlds apart in value even with Arenado being the much better player (in the short-term).

[Ryu In My House]

Looking at the trade package they got for Arenado, we might be able to pry Marquez for something like McGuire + Grichuk + Kay. That's some solid major league talent.

 

Jesus I would do that EVERY time, and I really like Kay. But c'mon, that is too light. I wish, but they would want way more than that. German is a guy who is worth > 3 WAR a season. Four more seasons. He might even have a no-trade clause. The Jays will HAVE to throw in SWR or Manoah. I love both prospects, but they are prospects. I guess what I am saying is this; he has a 4-year window that runs perfectly with our kids. We may have to burn some of our future for the now. I know we all sting from the Dickey trade, but that is just a risk teams have to make sometimes. The best trades are those that leave both teams hurting a little.

[Ryu In My House]

Marquez is on an extremely team-friendly deal that takes him through his age 29 season. Arenado is on a monster contract which the Cardinals will own through his ages 30-36 seasons. They're worlds apart in value even with Arenado being the much better player (in the short-term).

 

Marquez has such a good team-friendly contract. He is honestly the perfect fit. It would burn up a lot of our prospect capital, but four years of a really good SP. He, plus Ryu and Pearson and our offense give us a shot at greatness. I think I pull that trigger. It could be a ~ 3 + win differential.

[Terminator]

The Rockies are retarded but they don't really trade cheap players like this.

[connorp]

The Rockies may be retarded but they’re not kicking in $50m if they don’t have to for no-name prospects. It was therefore clearly a negative value contract mlb-wide

[Terminator]

The Rockies may be retarded but they’re not kicking in $50m if they don’t have to for no-name prospects. It was therefore clearly a negative value contract mlb-wide

 

The pandemic changed the market so I somewhat agree with that. But I bet some team would have taken the full deal on or at least have come close. $50 mil is a joke.

 

He had a full no-trade clause though and was zeroed in on the Cardinals. The Rockies were hellbent on moving him and there weren't a lot of options at that point.

 

The 4 no-name prospects actually were important to them because it allowed the owner to dress up the trade. He literally said that he was worried that Arenado was going to opt out and they'd receive nothing in return. The non-prospects then got spun to the very casual but active fanbase as some sort of real package.

 

As we all know, the truth is that the owner was worried that Arenado would opt in to his deal and that's why they moved him. The Cardinals knew this and strong armed the hell out of them.

[connorp]

Yeah bad post on my part. Forgot about full no-trade. Though there were probably other destinations he’d approve, definitely can’t say league-wide. Carry on

[G-Snarls]

The pandemic changed the market so I somewhat agree with that. But I bet some team would have taken the full deal on or at least have come close. $50 mil is a joke.

 

He had a full no-trade clause though and was zeroed in on the Cardinals. The Rockies were hellbent on moving him and there weren't a lot of options at that point.

 

The 4 no-name prospects actually were important to them because it allowed the owner to dress up the trade. He literally said that he was worried that Arenado was going to opt out and they'd receive nothing in return. The non-prospects then got spun to the very casual but active fanbase as some sort of real package.

 

As we all know, the truth is that the owner was worried that Arenado would opt in to his deal and that's why they moved him. The Cardinals knew this and strong armed the hell out of them.

 

They should have been willing to trade with the Dodgers but they wouldn't even consider it