General 2017 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Terminator]

I think Shatkins are all about retooling. I don't think we'll be seeing a full scale tear down any time soon. Also it's been mentioned before, but when you have a player of Donaldson's caliber, you try to make the most of his time here.

 

But if we aren't going to resign him there will be no better time to trade him then at the deadline. We could probably pilfer some serious talent from the Mets.

[Brownie19]

The Mets system is pretty bonerific...

[L54]

If the team has no plans on extending Donaldson it would be extremely irresponsible to not move him. I'd have no problem taking him right to FA if it meant another two years of post seasons, but that's highly unlikely at this point.

[Orgfiller]

But if we aren't going to resign him there will be no better time to trade him then at the deadline. We could probably pilfer some serious talent from the Mets.

 

We don't know whether or not they want to resign him or whether or not Donaldson has any intention of coming back at a reasonable price. It would be purely speculation at this point. I agree that it would suck to let him go for nothing, but there's just too much information missing from the big picture. Donaldson is still probably a 10+ WAR player in the next two seasons, that's not someone you trade for a few B prospects, especially if you believe the team has a good chance for contention; the return has to be satisfactory for both the short and long term. Is something like Rosario + Conforto a good start? Probably, but is that enough? That's all up to the team's internal evaluations and how likely we are to retain Donaldson past the 2018-2019 offseason.

[glory]

The writing was on the wall while they played in the ALCS? How about when they swept the Rangers in ALDS?

 

Yeah, even if Shatkins wanted to rebuild after 2016, there was no way it was going to happen after two straight playoff appearances and a huge increase in revenue + attendance.

 

The only way this was was going to take a step back is if the team on the field forced them to. This year might be that year.

 

And yes, the Mets owe us for the Dickey trade. A year and a half of Donaldson is probably more valuable than a lifetime of Dickey though, so not exactly a comparable situation, but whatever. Get their best prospects.

[John_Havok]

We don't know whether or not they want to resign him or whether or not Donaldson has any intention of coming back at a reasonable price. It would be purely speculation at this point. I agree that it would suck to let him go for nothing, but there's just too much information missing from the big picture. Donaldson is still probably a 10+ WAR player in the next two seasons, that's not someone you trade for a few B prospects, especially if you believe the team has a good chance for contention; the return has to be satisfactory for both the short and long term. Is something like Rosario + Conforto a good start? Probably, but is that enough? That's all up to the team's internal evaluations and how likely we are to retain Donaldson past the 2018-2019 offseason.

 

It's true, we don't know if they want to resign him, or whether he would even want to resign when at his age, he's probably looking at 1 free agent contact in his career. Lots of players find that a hard thing not to test out especially when you're a great player.

 

However one can reasonably speculate what the management is leaning towards, given their track record from their previous team.

 

My speculation is that the only way they resign Donaldson is if the Jays are:

 

1) in very good spot for a playoff position by the all star break.

And then , only if #1 is true

 

2) Donaldson is willing to sign an extension in the 4 year/100 million range before the trade deadline this year.

 

And then only if #2 is true

 

3) they really feel strongly about another playoff run in 2018

 

#2 wouldn't even come into consideration if the Jays are way out of a spot because at that point Donaldson will be at his highest value to any team trading for him because they would get at least 2 potential playoff runs with him before free agency. There no logical reason to keep Donaldson for 2018 if you aren't making the playoffs this year and he's your best trade chip to kickstart the inevitable rebuild.

 

Yes, he would still have value before the start of next season, and yes he would still have value at next year's deadline, but it's inarguable that his highest value would be at this years deadline assuming he is healthy.

[Gary]

Does no update yet on Happ = TJS?

[Brownie19]

It's true, we don't know if they want to resign him, or whether he would even want to resign when at his age, he's probably looking at 1 free agent contact in his career. Lots of players find that a hard thing not to test out especially when you're a great player.

 

However one can reasonably speculate what the management is leaning towards, given their track record from their previous team.

 

My speculation is that the only way they resign Donaldson is if the Jays are:

 

1) in very good spot for a playoff position by the all star break.

And then , only if #1 is true

 

2) Donaldson is willing to sign an extension in the 4 year/100 million range before the trade deadline this year.

 

And then only if #2 is true

 

3) they really feel strongly about another playoff run in 2018

 

#2 wouldn't even come into consideration if the Jays are way out of a spot because at that point Donaldson will be at his highest value to any team trading for him because they would get at least 2 potential playoff runs with him before free agency. There no logical reason to keep Donaldson for 2018 if you aren't making the playoffs this year and he's your best trade chip to kickstart the inevitable rebuild.

 

Yes, he would still have value before the start of next season, and yes he would still have value at next year's deadline, but it's inarguable that his highest value would be at this years deadline assuming he is healthy.

 

I don't know if judging based on what they did in Cleveland is a good assumption. Different ownership, different payroll.

[Jonn]

 

[fatcowxlive]

Man we shoulda took Thames this offseason

[saskjayfan]

Man we shoulda took Thames this offseason

 

I said we should take a flyer on him, but I must admit he signed for more than I thought he would. There were a few people who suggested a flyer on thames...most on here mocked that idea though.

[BTS]

I said we should take a flyer on him, but I must admit he signed for more than I thought he would. There were a few people who suggested a flyer on thames...most on here mocked that idea though.

 

I don't think a single person on this forum mocked the idea of Thames. Pretty much everyone wanted him.

[fatcowxlive]

I said we should take a flyer on him, but I must admit he signed for more than I thought he would. There were a few people who suggested a flyer on thames...most on here mocked that idea though.

 

Really? Most wanted him here to at least give Smoak a bit more competition. Especially if we'd known we're slotting Pearce in LF, I mean Thames isn't THAT much worse out there. Maybe he didn't want to come back or something

[Jonn]

A lot of teams are regretting passing on Thames. 3/16 what an absolute steal.

[Boxcar]

I don't think a single person on this forum mocked the idea of Thames. Pretty much everyone wanted him.

 

I want to believe that people mocked it though, so it's probably true. You know, the hive and computer guys, they're probably at fault.

[Dick_Pole]

Man we shoulda took Thames this offseason

 

Bautista, Donaldson, EE. The Jays have gotten more than their fair share of top-end sluggers at below market cost in terms of salary and/or players traded over the past few years. A good thing too because they've been pathetic on the drafting and player development of those types of players. If you constantly point out every missed opportunity you will be one unhappy fan. Any team that picks up more than 3.33% of the bargains out there is doing better than average. If you really want to harp on something you're better off wondering why Travis Snider and David Cooper aren't the #3 and #4 guys in this lineup right now.

[BTS]

Bautista, Donaldson, EE. The Jays have gotten more than their fair share of top-end sluggers at below market cost in terms of salary and/or players traded over the past few years. A good thing too because they've been pathetic on the drafting and player development of those types of players. If you constantly point out every missed opportunity you will be one unhappy fan. Any team that picks up more than 3.33% of the bargains out there is doing better than average. If you really want to harp on something you're better off wondering why Travis Snider and David Cooper aren't the #3 and #4 guys in this lineup right now.

 

Never trust a guy with no chin.

[Caper]

David Cooper could hit. I think he f***ed his back or something. Even with the s***** back, he could walk on the field tomorrow and be a better option then Smoak.

 

The deal is truly puzzling to me.

[HERPDERP]

JD is out 2-4 weeks

[G-Snarls]

JD is out 2-4 weeks

 

FACK

 

pf

[jaysfan2014]

Danny Barnes called up to Toronto, replacing Matt Dermody on the roster.. no word on Happ, which may be a sign he may not miss much time.

[Terminator]

Barnes should have been on the big league team from the get go. I hope he does well out of the gate so they aren't tempted to send him back down.

[Bobthe4th]

Barnes should have been on the big league team from the get go. I hope he does well out of the gate so they aren't tempted to send him back down.

 

I agree but he was harmed by having options left.

[glory]

I agree but he was harmed by having options left.

 

Tepera had options left too though, and he's not good at all.

 

I guess it helps if Gibby can't quit you. Barnes hasn't earned that love yet.

[bendera3]

David Cooper could hit. I think he f***ed his back or something. Even with the s***** back, he could walk on the field tomorrow and be a better option then Smoak.

 

The deal is truly puzzling to me.

 

I rooted for Cooper. I thought he could be an Olerud-type kinda guy with a high average, good BB/K ratio in the minors and acceptable power.

[BTS]

Barnes is actually good, so he has that going for him relative to guys like Leon and Tepera.

[Terminator]

Barnes is actually good, so he has that going for him relative to guys like Leon and Tepera.

 

No idea why they went with those two and Dermody instead of Barnes. All 3 have options even if I'm not mistaken.

[Laika]

No idea why they went with those two and Dermody instead of Barnes. All 3 have options even if I'm not mistaken.

 

This FO has made a handful of really questionable personnel decisions this year. I have to admit some disappointment.

 

Tepera is legitimately awful--I'd rather watch Dickey pitch for my team in Coors.

Goins is a waste of a roster spot.

I still question Carrera over Upton.

[Terminator]

This FO has made a handful of really questionable personnel decisions this year. I have to admit some disappointment.

 

Tepera is legitimately awful--I'd rather watch Dickey pitch for my team in Coors.

Goins is a waste of a roster spot.

I still question Carrera over Upton.

 

The final roster looked like s***. They also didn't keep Bolsinger. I thought it was because they might try and sneak him down to AAA so they could stretch him out as a SP. But nope, he's just a RP down there. So say hello to Mat Latos.

 

I'd have to look at this in some detail but their final decisions could have knocked up to about 2 WAR off our win total.

[KevinGregg]

This FO has made a handful of really questionable personnel decisions this year. I have to admit some disappointment.

 

Tepera is legitimately awful--I'd rather watch Dickey pitch for my team in Coors.

Goins is a waste of a roster spot.

I still question Carrera over Upton.

 

These little decisions are likely left entirely up to Atkins, who we know is actually pretty inexperienced at running an MLB team. Shapiro will be responsible for the big moves and long term direction, but I'm not too surprised that our rookie GM has made a few questionable decisions.