Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[Sorrow]

GMs can evolve just like players do. AA was mediocre at the beginning. This past year he looks to have turned a corner. Donaldson trade. Travis trade. Happ for Saunders. Reyes for Tulo. Nothing for Revere. Colabello off the scrap heap. Lind for Estrada. Didn't re-sign Cabrera. Signed Martin. These are all great moves.

 

At the very beginning he was an amazing GM, gaming the compensation system, unloading Wells, stupidly trading Napoli for Francisco, drafting well, making good trades for Escobar and Rasmus. Then he went all in on a bad team.

[Flashman]

Very few people are going to accept a position where they have to put their name on decisions they didn't fully want to make.

 

But it's been hinted at that the Marlins trade wasn't his baby. If that were the case, and he was doing the bidding of Beeston/Rogers, it would seem a bit odd that he couldn't function under Shapiro.

[art_vandelay275]

i really can't believe this "he wants final say" reason. You'd expect most if not all GMs are accountable to the president.

 

i more think this is one of difference in vision - what the bschool wenies call strategic focus. the one thing that strikes me is the presumptiveness of shapiro. he may be a good baseball man and from what I can read, he is well respected. but being a "knowledgeable baseball guy" is different than a "knowledgeable canada baseball". if he was really the good business/executive, i was always told one of the things is when you get into a new organization/enterprise, you listen and observe first, even though you already have decided your course of action.

 

for the sake of the franchise, i sure hope shapiro is really that good exec who listens and observes and tries to learn what baseball in canada is about and realizes that not everything that worked in cleveland will work here

[nmrch]

AA was THE NINJA, not replaceable. A workaholic that made some impossible trades, he wasn't named executive of the year for no reason. I for one, is hoping that he signs with us.

 

Yeah, trading a future perennial cy young candidate and a pretty good catcher for an innings eater was an impossible trade and yet he pulled it off.

[King]

Alex Seixeiro ‏@alexfan590 35s35 seconds ago

Outgoing #Bluejays GM Alex Anthopoulos will join #PrimeTimeSports at 6:00pm.

[art_vandelay275]

u know the whole college football rivalry thing ... what they do before the big game ... just sayin....

 

[Brownie19]

Yeah, trading a future perennial cy young candidate and a pretty good catcher for an innings eater was an impossible trade and yet he pulled it off.

 

Seriously? c'mon man.

[Farm]

Keeps bringing up Vladdy Jr. for some reason.

 

Originally, this post was a response to KingKat's post in the AA thread. But I started getting carried away in my rant and I just want to share my thoughts on AA; specifically on how he hasn't been great and how he's acted selfishly this past year.

 

Alex keeps on mentioning Vlad Jr. because he knows he massively f***ed up our farm system. So he points to the Vlad signing as an example of how despite all of the moves he has made, he still cares about the future of the Jays.

 

The problem is, however, that the most likely scenario was that after Shapiro came in he knew he already had an inkling of how "the fit" wasn't going to be quite "right." Why else did he go apeshit and trade all of our prospects away? For one more blaze of glory before he went out so he could be named the executive of the year and have much better job prospects in the future. Last year on July 31, 2014, we were at 60-50 with the best pythag in the AL East. He didn't do s***.

 

Yes, AA, 3 million for Vladdy Jr. (not to mention no more additional signings even though we passed the spending limits, and trading for more bonus pools to limit the restrictions to one year when there are rumors of an international draft as soon as 2017) is going to make up for all the prospect for talent trades he's f***ed up over the years. The Marlins trade, the Mets trade, the Rockies trade, and the Tigers trade. The Marlins and Mets trade were f***ing terrible trades in hindsight, but let's be honest, who actually thought those two trades were good at the time? Of course we were excited, because we are fans and that is all we can do -- get pissed off and then try to get excited and find a million ways to rationalize dumb moves.

 

Even the trades made this deadline don't make sense in the context of a GM who wants to stay here long term. Mortgage even more of your future for a deadline Ace rental that will be signed for 7 years/200 million+. Trade for the "best shortstop in baseball" who coincidentally is being paid 19 million a year until he is 36 in 2020 and doesn't even want to be in Toronto. (He also sucked this year but that's irrelevant)

 

Sure, the past is the past and this year at least, the trades he made were defensible to great. Donaldson was obviously fantastic. Travis was a heist. But those were trades made without Shapiro on board. The deadline push makes sense given the context of our great run differential. But front offices very rarely mortgage so much of their future on run differential, especially considering AA's inaction in the past. No, it makes much more sense that the GM in the fifth year of his contract, who made little if any moves during past deadlines, unable to make the playoffs for the entire time he has been here, and likely with an idea that he would not be staying in Toronto in the future just decided to say "f*** it."

 

When you make a trade, that typically means that you are willing to pay more than 28 other teams in the league for that player. We were able to complete four trades, which means we outbid the entire league on four different players. We outbid everyone on Price, we outbid everyone on Tulowitzki, we outbid everyone on Revere, and we outbid everyone on Lowe. And Alex outbid them all because he was willing to trade the future of the Blue Jays away. Price and Lowe are FAs. Tulowitzki has a possibly fair, somewhat scary, very risky contract. Revere presented the most marginal of upgrades with a career 88 wrc+ (and great outfield arm) over Pompey's 81 wrc+ this season and 93 wrc+ projected by Steamer next season (with better defense and similar/better speed). Revere's improvement over Pompey is so marginal that it makes it very hard for me to believe that this these deadline trades were done solely for the benefit of the club for the present and for the future.

 

In the context of just this one season, Alex Anthopoulos is the executive the year. Two excellent trades in Donaldson and Travis, combined with a deadline push that worked out exceedingly well. But as a GM, you cannot just act for the present. Alex probably understands that well, as evidenced by his inaction during the deadline in years past. But this year he completely changed. It just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to see Alex celebrate 2015 and walk away from 2017.

 

Maybe it isn't his fault. After all, it makes sense for a man to act in his own self interest. In that respect, it could be argued that it's Rogers' fault for not extending him or by bringing in Shapiro in the middle of the season. Maybe he's even deluded himself into thinking that he was acting in the best interest of the club. After all, he did sign Vlad Jr.

 

As a fan, it is just frustrating to see everyone talk about the "high road" Alex is taking and how classy he is. The truth is, he has done an okayish-good job over the past four years and he acted for his own self-interest this past season.

 

If Shapiro thinks Alex traded away too many prospects this year, I would have to agree with him. Maybe we would still have Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, Gomes, DeSclafani, Alvarez, Marisnick, Hechevarria, Becerra, Norris, Boyd, Labourt, Tirado, Graveman, Barreto, Castro, and Hoffman on the Jays if Shapiro was here earlier.

 

2015 was great. 2016 will probably be great. But 2017 starts to get a bit scary, and 2018 will most likely be scary. It's a long time until then, and as a fan I'll enjoy the ride. And I will definitely rationalize for the Jays when we make some bad moves and cheer when we make good moves. Who knows, maybe this entire post was just me rationalizing for the team once again. But still, when I look back at what AA has done as a whole, I don't think that we are losing out on too much.

 

tl;dr AA didn't do an amazing job these past five years and acted selfishly this past year. Being a fan is rough. f*** AA. Go Jays Go. Rant concluded.

[nmrch]

agreed completely, this fanbase is still on the post season high and not able to think clearly right now.

[crmr]

Originally, this post was a response to KingKat's post in the AA thread. But I started getting carried away in my rant and I just want to share my thoughts on AA; specifically on how he hasn't been great and how he's acted selfishly this past year.

 

Alex keeps on mentioning Vlad Jr. because he knows he massively f***ed up our farm system. So he points to the Vlad signing as an example of how despite all of the moves he has made, he still cares about the future of the Jays.

 

The problem is, however, that the most likely scenario was that after Shapiro came in he knew he already had an inkling of how "the fit" wasn't going to be quite "right." Why else did he go apeshit and trade all of our prospects away? For one more blaze of glory before he went out so he could be named the executive of the year and have much better job prospects in the future. Last year on July 31, 2014, we were at 60-50 with the best pythag in the AL East. He didn't do s***.

 

Yes, AA, 3 million for Vladdy Jr. (not to mention no more additional signings even though we passed the spending limits, and trading for more bonus pools to limit the restrictions to one year when there are rumors of an international draft as soon as 2017) is going to make up for all the prospect for talent trades he's f***ed up over the years. The Marlins trade, the Mets trade, the Rockies trade, and the Tigers trade. The Marlins and Mets trade were f***ing terrible trades in hindsight, but let's be honest, who actually thought those two trades were good at the time? Of course we were excited, because we are fans and that is all we can do -- get pissed off and then try to get excited and find a million ways to rationalize dumb moves.

 

Even the trades made this deadline don't make sense in the context of a GM who wants to stay here long term. Mortgage even more of your future for a deadline Ace rental that will be signed for 7 years/200 million+. Trade for the "best shortstop in baseball" who coincidentally is being paid 19 million a year until he is 36 in 2020 and doesn't even want to be in Toronto. (He also sucked this year but that's irrelevant)

 

Sure, the past is the past and this year at least, the trades he made were defensible to great. Donaldson was obviously fantastic. Travis was a heist. But those were trades made without Shapiro on board. The deadline push makes sense given the context of our great run differential. But front offices very rarely mortgage so much of their future on run differential, especially considering AA's inaction in the past. No, it makes much more sense that the GM in the fifth year of his contract, who made little if any moves during past deadlines, unable to make the playoffs for the entire time he has been here, and likely with an idea that he would not be staying in Toronto in the future just decided to say "f*** it."

 

When you make a trade, that typically means that you are willing to pay more than 28 other teams in the league for that player. We were able to complete four trades, which means we outbid the entire league on four different players. We outbid everyone on Price, we outbid everyone on Tulowitzki, we outbid everyone on Revere, and we outbid everyone on Lowe. And Alex outbid them all because he was willing to trade the future of the Blue Jays away. Price and Lowe are FAs. Tulowitzki has a possibly fair, somewhat scary, very risky contract. Revere presented the most marginal of upgrades with a career 88 wrc+ (and great outfield arm) over Pompey's 81 wrc+ this season and 93 wrc+ projected by Steamer next season (with better defense and similar/better speed). Revere's improvement over Pompey is so marginal that it makes it very hard for me to believe that this these deadline trades were done solely for the benefit of the club for the present and for the future.

 

In the context of just this one season, Alex Anthopoulos is the executive the year. Two excellent trades in Donaldson and Travis, combined with a deadline push that worked out exceedingly well. But as a GM, you cannot just act for the present. Alex probably understands that well, as evidenced by his inaction during the deadline in years past. But this year he completely changed. It just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to see Alex celebrate 2015 and walk away from 2017.

 

Maybe it isn't his fault. After all, it makes sense for a man to act in his own self interest. In that respect, it could be argued that it's Rogers' fault for not extending him or by bringing in Shapiro in the middle of the season. Maybe he's even deluded himself into thinking that he was acting in the best interest of the club. After all, he did sign Vlad Jr.

 

As a fan, it is just frustrating to see everyone talk about the "high road" Alex is taking and how classy he is. The truth is, he has done an okayish-good job over the past four years and he acted for his own self-interest this past season.

 

If Shapiro thinks Alex traded away too many prospects this year, I would have to agree with him. Maybe we would still have Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, Gomes, DeSclafani, Alvarez, Marisnick, Hechevarria, Becerra, Norris, Boyd, Labourt, Tirado, Graveman, Barreto, Castro, and Hoffman on the Jays if Shapiro was here earlier.

 

2015 was great. 2016 will probably be great. But 2017 starts to get a bit scary, and 2018 will most likely be scary. It's a long time until then, and as a fan I'll enjoy the ride. And I will definitely rationalize for the Jays when we make some bad moves and cheer when we make good moves. Who knows, maybe this entire post was just me rationalizing for the team once again. But still, when I look back at what AA has done as a whole, I don't think that we are losing out on too much.

 

tl;dr AA didn't do an amazing job these past five years and acted selfishly this past year. Being a fan is rough. f*** AA. Go Jays Go. Rant concluded.

 

He made it to the ALCS without a massive payroll (i.e. borderline top 10 one) and put the Jays in ok shape (they aren't looking great in 3 years, but they aren't looking completely miserable, either).

 

He's not this all-star GM people pretend he is, but he's definitely decent

[pickoff22]

So a new thread was started to say much of what others have already said.

 

This thread was not that great.

[Farm]

He made it to the ALCS without a massive payroll (i.e. borderline top 10 one) and put the Jays in ok shape (they aren't looking great in 3 years, but they aren't looking completely miserable, either).

 

He's not this all-star GM people pretend he is, but he's definitely decent

 

Blue Jays had 10th highest payroll in 2015. Give me a top 15 payroll, I will wait until the trade deadline and then proceed to trade away all our best prospects and some s***** ones as well. I'll probably have a pretty good team for a playoff run.

[KingKat]

 

He's not this all-star GM people pretend he is, but he's definitely decent

 

Yeah I would have been fine with keeping him but I wouldn't have given him free reign over his team president which is apparently what he wanted. The org looks bad but I don't really see that they did anything wrong. AA's decision seems pretty rash.

[thatoneguy]

If Shapiro thinks Alex traded away too many prospects this year, I would have to agree with him. Maybe we would still have Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, Gomes, DeSclafani, Alvarez, Marisnick, Hechevarria, Becerra, Norris, Boyd, Labourt, Tirado, Graveman, Barreto, Castro, and Hoffman on the Jays if Shapiro was here earlier.

 

Throwing in the players AA traded for Donaldson here is silly, but the rest is fine.

 

If Rogers cuts payroll significantly, they can go roll in broken glass.

[BTS]

Personally, I think Rogers is steering us into a different direction that AA doesn't want to go towards (cutting payroll). And he doesn't want to go in that direction under someone else.

 

I could be wrong, but I feel that today's events are foreshadowing our future. I mean, Rogers obviously hired Shapiro because they thought he could navigate under a limited payroll. And now AA leaves? I can easily see Shapiro saying, "Look AA. You did a great job but ownership wants us to tighten the ship a bit and the canadian dollar, blah blah blah. You're going to have to make some moves with our veteran players that you might not want to make."

 

AA: "f*** it I'm out".

 

The 'he was hired because he's proven himself under a low payroll, therefore he'll have a low payroll here' argument is silly. You know what kinds of GMs succeed under low payrolls? Good ones. If I'm looking for a GM, the guy who ran a pretty tight ship on a bottom-5 payroll is the guy I want managing my top-10 payroll.

[Farm]

Throwing in the players AA traded for Donaldson here is silly, but the rest is fine.

 

If Rogers cuts payroll significantly, they can go roll in broken glass.

 

It makes more sense to include all trades, both good and bad.

[metafour]

The 'he was hired because he's proven himself under a low payroll, therefore he'll have a low payroll here' argument is silly. You know what kinds of GMs succeed under low payrolls? Good ones. If I'm looking for a GM, the guy who ran a pretty tight ship on a bottom-5 payroll is the guy I want managing my top-10 payroll.

 

Yup. It is a giant stretch of imagination to come to that conclusion. If they wanted someone to reduce payroll, then why show any interest in Kenny Williams who has had some of the highest payrolls in the league during his time with the White Sox?

 

They wanted Shapiro because he is an accomplished, experienced, and highly regarded executive.

[Farm]

Yup. It is a giant stretch of imagination to come to that conclusion. If they wanted someone to reduce payroll, then why show any interest in Kenny Williams who has had some of the highest payrolls in the league during his time with the White Sox?

 

They wanted Shapiro because he is an accomplished, experienced, and highly regarded executive.

 

To add on to that, the Blue Jays payroll has increased every year under AA. Even if it decreased slightly, who cares? AA wouldn't be leaving over such a minor detail.

[Mikeleelop]

I worry that AA refused contract because Rogers said payroll parameters were going down instead of going up. AA countered by saying TV viewer numbers justify much higher payroll (s/b top5)

 

this will cause a fan revolt. Rogers are just incompetent as shown by Eddy boy previous dealings unravelling last off season

[HERPDERP]

Honest question for you chums - how exactly do you rate whether we won a trade or not?

[candymartinez]

They wanted Shapiro because he is an accomplished, experienced, and highly regarded executive.

 

Indian fans would tend to disagree.

[candymartinez]

Honest question for you chums - how exactly do you rate whether we won a trade or not?

 

Hindsight. What else?

[metafour]

Indian fans would tend to disagree.

 

Indians fans can't seem to understand that when your team is bottom 5 in payroll, you aren't very likely to be competing for championships or even the playoffs on a year-to-year basis.

[HERPDERP]

Hindsight. What else?

 

Well we obviously won the Donaldson trade right?

 

What if Donaldson went down with a career ending injury and Barreto ends up being a 40-HR shortstop stud? At that point I wonder if people here would turn the tides on that trade?

[204Jays]

Maybe this happened....

 

Shap: "Whats your plan after 2016?"

AA: "...."

Shap: "Im sure you know where the door is"

[jaysblue]

Tune into PTS between 5 and 7 PM. Should be a good one. AA will be on at 6 PM, Bobcat just confirmed.

[Farm]

Honest question for you chums - how exactly do you rate whether we won a trade or not?

 

You have to evaluate from the perspective of that moment. And then you revisit that moment with the benefit of hindsight periodically to look at things you should have seen and look at things you should have weighted differently etc.

 

I would definitely disagree with rating trades based solely on results.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

AA was THE NINJA, not replaceable. A workaholic that made some impossible trades, he wasn't named executive of the year for no reason. I for one, is hoping that he signs with us.

 

2010: 85–77, no playoffs

2011: 81–81, no playoffs

2012: 73–89, no playoffs

2013: 74–88, no playoffs

2014: 83-79, no playoffs

2015: 93-69, mental collapse in the ALCS

 

He also made trades with the Marlins and Mets that are universally regarded as two of the dumbest ever, and he re-hired Gibbons. Wow, what a real "ninja" he was. How on Earth are we ever going to replace this guy?

[204Jays]

The more I think about it, the more Im ok with AA leaving. He's gone nearly broke with his prospect currency and knew his value wouldnt be any higher than it is today. Our starting rotation is gonna take overspending if the FA market to be more than passable barring Osuna and Sanchez moving successfully and were in a similar position with our position players after next year.

[candymartinez]

Well we obviously won the Donaldson trade right?

 

What if Donaldson went down with a career ending injury and Barreto ends up being a 40-HR shortstop stud? At that point I wonder if people here would turn the tides on that trade?

 

Soon after.

 

Just like you wouldn't hear anything if D'Arnaud and Syndergaard turned out to be Snider and Drabek.